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Thread: Call to oppose PATRIOT act Renewal -- today!

  1. #1
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Call to oppose PATRIOT act Renewal -- today!

    Let's rock their voicemails!

    May 20, 2011

    Politicians shredding your rights is not patriotic.

    The U.S. Congress is poised to vote on the badly misnamed “Patriot Act,” and your immediate action is needed to stop this Fourth Amendment-shredding legislation from being renewed.

    House Speaker Boehner, Senator Reid, and President Obama have cut a deal to foist a 4-year extension of 3 expiring provisions on innocent Americans, and with just 1 week to go before their expiration, the statists are desperate to push this legislation through.

    For 10 years now, the Patriot Act has been eroding our freedoms and turning our nation into a despotic authoritarian state.

    In February, you and I mounted a defense that caused quite a stir on the Hill. Our lawmakers had grown accustomed to meeting limited resistance on this Act and had every expectation that the extensions would sail through easily.

    While the expiring provisions were extended for 3 months, your quick action put our lawmakers on notice that Americans are no longer willing to trade liberty for a false sense of security.

    Your help is extremely essential to regaining lost freedoms and defeating this continued tyrannical suspension of your most basic Constitutionally protected rights.

    The Patriot Act dismantled your right to be considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

    It removed protections from unlawful searches and seizures. Government agents can now pry into your phone, internet, library, and banking records with no court oversight and no evidence of a crime.

    They can tap your phones, monitor every keystroke you make on the internet, scrutinize every penny you spend, and if they are so inclined--hold you without charges and deny your right to legal counsel.

    The entire Patriot Act needs to be repealed, but right now, the three sunsetting provisions should be allowed to expire outright.

    Extreme pressure is being placed on our lawmakers to renew these provisions--and unless they sustain serious counter-pressure from us--they will choose the path of least resistance!

    Don’t let anyone tell you that your phone calls and emails to Congress don’t matter. Enough pressure from us can and will prove that if they cave to the statist’s demands, they will lose their jobs in the next election cycle.

    But they need to hear from each and every one of us for liberty to win!

    They need to hear loud and clear that the freedom movement is very much alive and well--and we will not sit idly by while they legislate away our most basic rights.

    Call and email your Representative and Senators today and tell them to vote NO on EVERY vote pertaining to renewing any part of the Patriot Act.

    The Patriot Act was forced on innocent Americans after 9/11 on the claim that it would keep us safe. But 9/11 occurred because the government failed to use existing intelligence--not because they didn't have the necessary intelligence-gathering tools.

    The abominable acts that occurred on 9/11 were unjustifiable, but we cannot allow the White House and Congress to destroy the rights and liberties that made this nation great!

    Contact your Representative and Senators today and demand they vote against renewing the Patriot Act on every vote.

    We must ensure that the pressure lawmakers are receiving from those who would shred our rights pales in comparison to those of us fighting for freedom.


    Toward Liberty,

    Tony DeMott

    Michigan State Coordinator

    Campaign for Liberty
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Let's rock their voicemails!

    May 20, 2011

    Politicians shredding your rights is not patriotic.

    The U.S. Congress is poised to vote on the badly misnamed “Patriot Act,” and your immediate action is needed to stop this Fourth Amendment-shredding legislation from being renewed.

    House Speaker Boehner, Senator Reid, and President Obama have cut a deal to foist a 4-year extension of 3 expiring provisions on innocent Americans, and with just 1 week to go before their expiration, the statists are desperate to push this legislation through.

    For 10 years now, the Patriot Act has been eroding our freedoms and turning our nation into a despotic authoritarian state.

    In February, you and I mounted a defense that caused quite a stir on the Hill. Our lawmakers had grown accustomed to meeting limited resistance on this Act and had every expectation that the extensions would sail through easily.

    While the expiring provisions were extended for 3 months, your quick action put our lawmakers on notice that Americans are no longer willing to trade liberty for a false sense of security.

    Your help is extremely essential to regaining lost freedoms and defeating this continued tyrannical suspension of your most basic Constitutionally protected rights.

    The Patriot Act dismantled your right to be considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

    It removed protections from unlawful searches and seizures. Government agents can now pry into your phone, internet, library, and banking records with no court oversight and no evidence of a crime.

    They can tap your phones, monitor every keystroke you make on the internet, scrutinize every penny you spend, and if they are so inclined--hold you without charges and deny your right to legal counsel.

    The entire Patriot Act needs to be repealed, but right now, the three sunsetting provisions should be allowed to expire outright.

    Extreme pressure is being placed on our lawmakers to renew these provisions--and unless they sustain serious counter-pressure from us--they will choose the path of least resistance!

    Don’t let anyone tell you that your phone calls and emails to Congress don’t matter. Enough pressure from us can and will prove that if they cave to the statist’s demands, they will lose their jobs in the next election cycle.

    But they need to hear from each and every one of us for liberty to win!

    They need to hear loud and clear that the freedom movement is very much alive and well--and we will not sit idly by while they legislate away our most basic rights.

    Call and email your Representative and Senators today and tell them to vote NO on EVERY vote pertaining to renewing any part of the Patriot Act.

    The Patriot Act was forced on innocent Americans after 9/11 on the claim that it would keep us safe. But 9/11 occurred because the government failed to use existing intelligence--not because they didn't have the necessary intelligence-gathering tools.

    The abominable acts that occurred on 9/11 were unjustifiable, but we cannot allow the White House and Congress to destroy the rights and liberties that made this nation great!

    Contact your Representative and Senators today and demand they vote against renewing the Patriot Act on every vote.

    We must ensure that the pressure lawmakers are receiving from those who would shred our rights pales in comparison to those of us fighting for freedom.


    Toward Liberty,

    Tony DeMott

    Michigan State Coordinator

    Campaign for Liberty



    Much as I like, and dislike, some aspects of the Act. The act has saved your asss more times than you will likely ever find out about. (and that too, is intentional-so no,there will be no "cites" or "links" ) Nonetheless, it remains a solid fact.
    Unless or until you conduct some activity or have ties to or connections to-knowingly or otherwise-some activity that puts you in their cross-hairs, no freedoms of yours, as an individual citizen are being-or will be- "erroded" or "violated".
    Persons subjected to the act arent chosen at random. It's not a lottery.

    The severely limited resources of the Intelligence and Investigative agencies of this land are not going out seeking random victims to torment for their amusement. They could care less if you like to talk dirty on the phone or internet with Aunt Milly. They could care less about the adult toys you purchase at the XXX store, or whatever other "privacy" issues you seem to think might be embarassing for them to see/hear.
    That arent even looking in your direction.

    Folks, this isnt the movies. The intel and investigations agencies dont have a Jack Bauer,they dont have satellites they can re-direct to look at your particular house with little more than a cell phone call. They dont have anything like enough folks to sit and listen in to all your little phone/text/interweb chats 24/7.

    The folks they ARE looking for, and looking at, understand these limitations, and most of our own laws better than most of our own ,common citizens. The folks they are looking for are specifically trained to avoid detection and capture by operating within the loopholes and safeguards of those laws pre-Patriot Act. They exploit these freedoms we enjoy because they view them as a weekness they can use against us, and enable themselves to slip in, and live amongst us.

    Get over yourselves folks. Your not quiet important enough to get the Fed's or the CIA's attentions.Unless, or until you do something to deserve their attention. They lack the time, resources,funds,and reasons to "violate" you, the law-abiding, tax-paying citizen.

    In the mean time- read the actual bill. Sorry, there' no pictures, and some of the words are big and strange to lay-persons who work at McDonalds, but...

    http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...=f:publ056.107

    Meantime, cite for me please, 1 instance of each example mentioned in the op, in which YOUR rights have actually suffered in some form.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Bobarino's Avatar
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    Ugh. Couldn't take it any more. Had to put J4l on the ignore list. Anyone that backs this piece of legislation doesn't deserve any consideration or time from me.

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    That's good, re-insert that brain-housing unit right back into the 4th point of contact...that'll make the meanie go away..

  5. #5
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Much as I like, and dislike, some aspects of the Act. The act has saved your asss more times than you will likely ever find out about. (and that too, is intentional-so no,there will be no "cites" or "links" )

    Yeah, it's so secret that we can't ever know about the attempts that were foiled...

    Boy am I ever glad we are slowing relinquishing our 1st, 2nd, and 4th Amendments rights so that the government can "protect" us against nebulous, unidentifiable, unverifiable bogeymen...

    I'm especially happy to know that nearly every single episode the DHS tell us about was actually an "inside job" perpetrated by members of our own State Department and "Intelligence" community.

    How does this effect me? I can't travel by air (or take my family places by air) without subjecting them to being fondled by knuckle-dragging power-tripping perverts, thieves and criminals. I can't use the telecommunication system with out EVERY call, text, or email I make being run through Eschalon filters for key words. I can't use my bank card without some computer analyzing my transaction for "suspicious purchasing trends". I can't drive on Interstate Highways without being constantly bombarded by electronic billboards telling the public to narc out their fellow citizens for "suspicious activities". I can't belong to a 1A, 2A, anti-war, or anti-Federal Reserve political action group without fear of ending up on some sort of "terror list".

    So, "j4l", how long have you been part of Cass Sunstein's "congnitive infiltration" program, and how much does it pay? I hope the paycheck is worth your soul, because that is what you have traded for your complicity.

    The "Patriot Act" is one of the most Orwellian examples of anti-Liberty double-speak to come about in the 20th century. It is the sort of legislative duplicity that the Soviets only DREAMED about, and we are forgetting that it was put in place by a "conservative" president, and is most likely going to be re-upped by a "liberal" president. Two different sides of the same rotten slice of baloney...

    If you would have presented a copy of the "Patriot Act" to the "Founding Fathers" as something that was a "good idea", they would have put a pot of tar on to boil, started ripping open their pillows, and sent someone to fetch a properly stout rail on which to ride you out of town...

    Apo Pantos Kakodaimonos...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 05-21-2011 at 09:37 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Get over yourselves folks. Your not quiet important enough to get the Fed's or the CIA's attentions.Unless, or until you do something to deserve their attention. They lack the time, resources,funds,and reasons to "violate" you, the law-abiding, tax-paying citizen.
    [...]
    Meantime, cite for me please, 1 instance of each example mentioned in the op, in which YOUR rights have actually suffered in some form.
    One instance I can think of, is the guy in Washington who got detained for the Madrid train bombings. Didn't have a @#$%ing thing to do with them, some incompetent at the FBI got mixed up on the fingerprints. For that matter, http://tinyurl.com/erroneousrendition

    You can go ahead and renew, but ONLY IF there's an amendment added, that prescribes the death penalty for any official who turns out to have abused the rights of an innocent American.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    The severely limited resources of the Intelligence and Investigative agencies of this land are not going out seeking random victims to torment for their amusement.
    The "severely limited resources" of the DHS are the largest percentage of the "defense budget" in this country. Not millions, not billions, but TRILLIONS of dollars have been put into the ever-expanding monitoring systems that permeate our telecom, internet, and cable TV systems over the last 14 years.

    The Telecommunications Act of 1996 specifically makes provisions for this. It requires GPS tracking capabilities eventually be mandatory in all cell phones, satellite radio receivers, and automobiles. TCA-96 requires that "smart chips" be imbedded in all consumer electronics--from CFL light bulbs to toasters to DVD players. It requires that all telecom carriers have dedicated "dark fiber connections" directly to regional "Threat Fusion Centers" for real-time computer processing of all digital traffic--standard telecom, VOIP, internet and cell phones. TCA-96 requires that all digital cable boxes be operational 2-way devices with imbedded microphones.

    No, in fact not only do they have the capability to monitor nearly every household and vehicle, but most of this infrastructure is already in place, and some of it has been operational for nearly a decade.

    "Ma Bell" has had "black boxes" in their Central Offices since the 1980s when they started the conversion for th eland line system from relay switching to ESS systems. I know this for a fact--I've seen them, and I've seen the non-telcom people in vans with the classic "black and white" plates (US Gov) come to new Bell facilities under cover of darkness to install them before the new facilities went "live"...


    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    They dont have anything like enough folks to sit and listen in to all your little phone/text/interweb chats 24/7.
    They don't need people. In case you haven't heard, we're in the 21st century now. We have the ability to build supercomputers with commercially available off-the-shelf CPUs. We have the ability to process billions of bits of data a second. We have the ability to store terrabytes of info in the space of a pack of cigarettes. All telecom is digital now--even land line calls are A/D converted the second they enter the local ESS station, and STAY digital until they get to the station closest to their destination. Any signal that is digital can be real-time processed for key words, tagged, stored, and referenced later.

    You are either hopelessly ignorant of current state-of-the-art telecom and signal processing technologies, or you are irredeemably in denial, or you are a "cognitive infiltrator" intentionally spreading disinformation.

    Whatever the case, your opinions on this issue have proven to be, at the very least, uselessly out-of-date and painfully blind to current state-of-the-art, or at th very worst, intentional disinformation intended to keep the sheeple dumbed down and in the dark...

    Apo Pantos Kakodaimonos!
    Last edited by Dreamer; 05-21-2011 at 09:58 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  8. #8
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    j4l's words are classic neo-con tactics.

    1. Make people fear dismantling these programs by saying they have saved us countless (but all are classified) times/ways.
    2. Underplay the importance of freedom and liberty.

    These fear tactics have worked far too long. My brothers, we must make our stand and we must make it NOW!
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  9. #9
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    One good thing about having a LARGE immediate family. I can easily convince 20 people to call. :P
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

  10. #10
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I hate some of the crap that is asserted, such as, that the Patriot Act was "forced" on Americans.

    "Patriot Act
    Yes No Extend Patriot Act 59% 39%"

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/PollVault/story?id=833703



    http://www.gallup.com/poll/9205/publ...triot-act.aspx

    There are plenty of 'polls' that indicated, at the time, that the Patriot Act was supported by a large number of Americans...greater than 60%. Which these days is a pretty good size of the population that agree on a damn thing.

    The Patriot Act should not be reintroduced, and extended, but hey, just the opinion of a lone quazi-middle-class individual who is neck deep in homework, reading, and my own economic BS than to worry about whether or not the Government is tapping my phone, and listening in on me talk dirty to my partner when I am out of town, late on a Friday night, and nothing better to do
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  11. #11
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    I'm openly kinky and I openly carry a gun. I don't have much to hide.

    IT STILL DOESN'T MAKE LISTENING TO MY PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS RIGHT!!!!!

    If someone in the private sector did it, they'd go to jail. Therefore, how can it be right for the "Angels" in government (who are taken from the population at large) to do the same?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    How polling REALLY works:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If9EWDB_zK4
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I'm openly kinky and I openly carry a gun. I don't have much to hide.

    IT STILL DOESN'T MAKE LISTENING TO MY PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS RIGHT!!!!!

    If someone in the private sector did it, they'd go to jail. Therefore, how can it be right for the "Angels" in government (who are taken from the population at large) to do the same?
    Define your expectation of privacy, please?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    j4l's words are classic neo-con tactics.

    1. Make people fear dismantling these programs by saying they have saved us countless (but all are classified) times/ways.
    2. Underplay the importance of freedom and liberty.

    These fear tactics have worked far too long. My brothers, we must make our stand and we must make it NOW!
    Are really such a simpleton that you cannot grasp WHY some things are classified?
    Must we return to 4th grade civics classes?
    No one's underplaying freedom or liberty. YOUR, freedom or liberty hasnt been any more or less diminished than before the ACT existed.

    But, by all means, please document for me -Ill be nice and call it 3 instances of your personal rights or freedoms having been impacted in any way-under the Patriot Act.
    Just 3.

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    Yup, I didnt think so either.
    Next topic,please.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    We function in an atmosphere of disclaimers: I do not agree with the poll necessarily because I do not know exactly how the question was presented, who it is presented to, the size of the polling.

    Polling is, well, polling.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I can state that it now makes it nearly impossible to across the Canadian border for me.

    See affected me already.

    Did you ignore the links I posted on how it has affected innocent Americans?

    And you are totally missing the point, it shreds the constitution, so in 10 years from now with more and more intrusive government, hope you feel the same.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #18
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Are really such a simpleton that you cannot grasp WHY some things are classified?
    Must we return to 4th grade civics classes?
    Really, is the above fluff necessary? Get on with what you have to say, and spend less time implying or declaring someone to be a 'simpleton'.

    No one's underplaying freedom or liberty. YOUR, freedom or liberty hasnt been any more or less diminished than before the ACT existed.
    That is true. At least from what I understand it appears the Government had the Authority to do many of these things prior to the Patriot Act.

    But, by all means, please document for me -Ill be nice and call it 3 instances of your personal rights or freedoms having been impacted in any way-under the Patriot Act.
    Just 3.
    It appears that the Government just has broader Authority to deny access to who they are investigating, and what they are investigating individuals (citizens) for:

    http://www.fepproject.org/commentari...actupdate.html
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  19. #19
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Without warrants the gov is supposed to have no authority at all........ever.....

    but Berretta you do make a point this laws does simply seem to codify what they were already doing.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Really, is the above fluff necessary? Get on with what you have to say, and spend less time implying or declaring someone to be a 'simpleton'.



    That is true. At least from what I understand it appears the Government had the Authority to do many of these things prior to the Patriot Act.



    It appears that the Government just has broader Authority to deny access to who they are investigating, and what they are investigating individuals (citizens) for:

    http://www.fepproject.org/commentari...actupdate.html
    "necessary? " Franky,sometimes, yes. Is it nice? No. But I dont recall having a disclaimer that what I may say may not always avoid harming someone's feelings.

    And you are right. The only things it really changed pertained more to lifting limitations on some things like warrants and types of warrants issued for certain investigations to better reflect the time-sensitive nature of terror-related cases.

    Catching Joe Mafia at some white-collar finanacial crime is usually not quiet as time-sensitive,for example, as catching Muhammed Ragbar before he and his buddies detonate something nasty in a pre-school. Now, how the heck that effects Kinky boy above, is beyond me.

    For the other one here, Canadian border? And all this yapping of air travel-totally un-related to Patriot Act. DHS-enforced matters on travel, and restrictions on foreigners are not Patriot Act items most of the time. Apples and Oranges.
    If you are going to decry the Act,at least do so based on what it actually covers. Better still-go back to the link provided and actually read the bloody thing before spouting off about what it does or does not do to anyone's freedoms.

    Hence, simpletons. There's just no "touchy-feely" way to put it,sometimes.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Without warrants the gov is supposed to have no authority at all........ever.....

    but Berretta you do make a point this laws does simply seem to codify what they were already doing.
    This is why I have made a distinction between what the Government 'isn't supposed to do', and what the Government does do.

    Legality v. Application, and how Authority plays a role in both. The Federal Governments Authority is the only reason why they are able to engage in act that might be illegal, with impunity. The Law can say one thing, and the Government can, at it's discretion, do what it deems 'necessary' under the guise of say, 'National Security."

    How do you hold the Federal Government criminally accountable? The Federal Government IS the Law. Money means nothing to the Federal Government since the money is made possible from taxpayers. So, if you were to sue the Federal Government, you would be paying both for your attorneys fees, and the fees of the Federal Government.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 05-22-2011 at 03:53 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  22. #22
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    "necessary? " Franky,sometimes, yes. Is it nice? No. But I dont recall having a disclaimer that what I may say may not always avoid harming someone's feelings.
    It's not about hurting a persons feelings. It's about adding fluff that undermines the discussion. It is difficult enough for all of us to handle the discussion at hand, then having people slinging B.S. such as calling a person a 'simpleton'.

    But hey, do whatever you like.
    And you are right. The only things it really changed pertained more to lifting limitations on some things like warrants and types of warrants issued for certain investigations to better reflect the time-sensitive nature of terror-related cases.
    The Government would have done that regardless, it's just that we wouldn't have heard about it. The CIA is there to do things that the average citizen is not aware of for the purposes of National Security.

    Catching Joe Mafia at some white-collar finanacial crime is usually not quiet as time-sensitive,for example, as catching Muhammed Ragbar before he and his buddies detonate something nasty in a pre-school. Now, how the heck that effects Kinky boy above, is beyond me.
    DHS is not affected by the Patriot Act?


    For the other one here, Canadian border? And all this yapping of air travel-totally un-related to Patriot Act. DHS-enforced matters on travel, and restrictions on foreigners are not Patriot Act items most of the time. Apples and Oranges.
    If you are going to decry the Act,at least do so based on what it actually covers. Better still-go back to the link provided and actually read the bloody thing before spouting off about what it does or does not do to anyone's freedoms.

    Hence, simpletons. There's just no "touchy-feely" way to put it,sometimes.

    "Most of the time?" Then, "apples and oranges?" Please explain.

    The Patriot Act may not appear superficially to be broad, but the wording of the Patriot Act is.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    It's not about hurting a persons feelings. It's about adding fluff that undermines the discussion. It is difficult enough for all of us to handle the discussion at hand, then having people slinging B.S. such as calling a person a 'simpleton'.

    But hey, do whatever you like.


    The Government would have done that regardless, it's just that we wouldn't have heard about it. The CIA is there to do things that the average citizen is not aware of for the purposes of National Security.



    DHS is not affected by the Patriot Act?





    "Most of the time?" Then, "apples and oranges?" Please explain.

    The Patriot Act may not appear superficially to be broad, but the wording of the Patriot Act is.
    Not everything is black and white. If there is info that a subject is moving into or out of the country, then yes it might cross over into DHS/TSA matters-such as airport checkpoints,etc.Otherwise,not very often,no.

    CIA is outside conus activities. FBI/NSA handles domestic.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Much as I like, and dislike, some aspects of the Act. The act has saved your asss more times than you will likely ever find out about. (and that too, is intentional-so no,there will be no "cites" or "links" ) Nonetheless, it remains a solid fact.
    LOL!

    Unless or until you conduct some activity or have ties to or connections to-knowingly or otherwise-some activity that puts you in their cross-hairs, no freedoms of yours, as an individual citizen are being-or will be- "erroded" or "violated".
    Persons subjected to the act arent chosen at random. It's not a lottery.
    And just how the hell do we know that? Blind faith?


    The severely limited resources of the Intelligence and Investigative agencies of this land are not going out seeking random victims to torment for their amusement. They could care less if you like to talk dirty on the phone or internet with Aunt Milly. They could care less about the adult toys you purchase at the XXX store, or whatever other "privacy" issues you seem to think might be embarassing for them to see/hear.
    That arent even looking in your direction.
    If only that were true...

    Folks, this isnt the movies. The intel and investigations agencies dont have a Jack Bauer,they dont have satellites they can re-direct to look at your particular house with little more than a cell phone call.
    You're right, it's all so much more petty than that.

    They dont have anything like enough folks to sit and listen in to all your little phone/text/interweb chats 24/7.
    Security by obscurity, huh? That works until it doesn't.

    The folks they ARE looking for, and looking at, understand these limitations, and most of our own laws better than most of our own ,common citizens. The folks they are looking for are specifically trained to avoid detection and capture by operating within the loopholes and safeguards of those laws pre-Patriot Act. They exploit these freedoms we enjoy because they view them as a weekness they can use against us, and enable themselves to slip in, and live amongst us.
    Wait, I thought you told me real life wasn't like TV?! Now I'm getting all confused!

    Get over yourselves folks. Your not quiet important enough to get the Fed's or the CIA's attentions.Unless, or until you do something to deserve their attention. They lack the time, resources,funds,and reasons to "violate" you, the law-abiding, tax-paying citizen.
    Exactly who else are they going to use all these powers on?

    In the mean time- read the actual bill.
    And you have, right?

    Meantime, cite for me please, 1 instance of each example mentioned in the op, in which YOUR rights have actually suffered in some form.
    What's the matter, your google broken?

    http://www.google.com/m/search?oe=UT...n&start=0&sa=N

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    LOL!



    And just how the hell do we know that? Blind faith?



    If only that were true...



    You're right, it's all so much more petty than that.



    Security by obscurity, huh? That works until it doesn't.


    Wait, I thought you told me real life wasn't like TV?! Now I'm getting all confused!


    Exactly who else are they going to use all these powers on?



    And you have, right?


    What's the matter, your google broken?

    http://www.google.com/m/search?oe=UT...n&start=0&sa=N
    Not only read it, but have operated under the restrictions imposed by it. Very well aware of it's limitations. Trust me, buttercup, you really ARENT important enough to listen in on.

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