ABC 20/20 Show on Guns Tonight at 10 PM Eastern

[ChinChin]

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Word has it on another forum people are emailing John Stossel to solicit his help in expressing their anger to ABC management.

Not a bad idea.

 

[echo6tango]

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rpyne wrote:

Had to change channels or I was going to vomit from choking on their anti-gun propaganda.

Watching videos posted by insurgents or terrrorists (or whatever they're called this week) is disgusting and sickening as well...but it gives us valuable insight into our enemies' mindset, tactics, etc.

If I would have known that 20/20 was giving someone $5,000 to buy as many guns as they could at a gun show, I would have signed up in a heart beat! And at the end of the show, taken them home and sent a nice thank you note . I really wonder what Richmond PD did with those firearms...hmmm...

 

[Infidel]

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I just finished watching the 20/20 episode "If I only had a Gun". The whole story was one sided, our anti-gun president was referenced numerous times, and all of the references listed on their website were a listing of WHO's Who in the anti-gun arena. I posted this comment to the website:

I gave your report the time and listened to everything Diane and the "Experts" had to say. I thought the whole segment was one sided (the left) and that too much information was left out on every subject during the program. Dianes comment at the the end of the show about not finding much information on people using guns to protect themselves or others was "limited at best"; I spent 15 minutes and found more sites with information on Armed Citizens than I knew was out there. Here are just a few links:http://homepage.usask.ca/~sta575/cdn-firearms/Ayoob/arm_teachers.txthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massad_Ayoobhttp://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/blogger.htmlhttp://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2007/04/17/mass_murderers_v_armed_citizens/http://www.nraila.org/issues/articles/read.aspx?ID=30These are just a few sites with guns used in recorded self defense cases. And the entire program was geared to steer peoples opinions, and the overt references to President Obama during the program and two links on the 20/20 site to Obama sites. How can you report an objective news story leaning that far left?? Morgan Spurlock on FX Network's 30 Days did a much better pro-trail of both sides of the issue than your "news" story.

They had a segment on the Gun show loop hole, and had the brother of a VT shooting victim go into The Showplace Richmond, VA and buy guns from personal sellers. According to the buyer (the brother) only one person asked to see ID, and at that he started to back away. Well I would say that is a responsible seller. Anyone else see it? What did you think?

 

[Task Force 16]

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In the hypothetical shooting scenarios, I found the test heavily slanted against the test subjects.

1) they had what appeared to be heavy gloves on. Who the heck is going to be wearing gloves in a classroom. Had I been in that situation the first thing I would have done is get that glove off my gun hand while ducking for cover.

2) the T-shirts were another handicap. I only saw one test subject (one of the girls) that actually pulled her shirt tail up with her weak hand before grabbing her weapon.

I would have like to see them try this with the test shooters in OC mode.

I think we would all agree that this sigment of the report does stress the importance of training and practice.

The rest of the piece was pretty much scare tactic propaganda.

Is Stossel still working for ABC? I wouldn't be surprised to hear they've canned him.

 

[echo6tango]

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Task Force 16 wrote:

In the hypothetical shooting scenarios, I found the test heavily slanted against the test subjects.

1) they had what appeared to be heavy gloves on. Who the heck is going to be wearing gloves in a classroom. Had I been in that situation the first thing I would have done is get that glove off my gun hand while ducking for cover.

2) the T-shirts were another handicap. I only saw one test subject (one of the girls) that actually pulled her shirt tail up with her weak hand before grabbing her weapon.

I would have like to see them try this with the test shooters in OC mode.

I think we would all agree that this sigment of the report does stress the importance of training and practice.

The rest of the piece was pretty much scare tactic propaganda.

Is Stossel still working for ABC? I wouldn't be surprised to hear they've canned him.

Before the scenario, they "taught" each student to only shoot the simunition at paper targets, but never instructed seeking cover, target identification, target analysis, etc. And then criticized each student for not taking cover, analyzing the situation, etc. A very controlled experiement for a very specific outcome. Still, everyone else in the room lived...they failed to point out that little bit of info.

They convinced me! Guns are not the answer, just playing dead after dialing 9-1-1 and silently praying is all you need to survive.

 

[Alexcabbie]

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Task Force 16 wrote:

In the hypothetical shooting scenarios, I found the test heavily slanted against the test subjects.

1) they had what appeared to be heavy gloves on. Who the heck is going to be wearing gloves in a classroom. Had I been in that situation the first thing I would have done is get that glove off my gun hand while ducking for cover.

2) the T-shirts were another handicap. I only saw one test subject (one of the girls) that actually pulled her shirt tail up with her weak hand before grabbing her weapon.

I would have like to see them try this with the test shooters in OC mode.

I think we would all agree that this sigment of the report does stress the importance of training and practice.

The rest of the piece was pretty much scare tactic propaganda.

Is Stossel still working for ABC? I wouldn't be surprised to hear they've canned him.

Remember the damned "Ford pickup exploding gas tanks" and the rocket motors used to make them explode?? This "presentation" is an outrage, AN OUTRAGE, DAMMIT ! Can you imagine what would happen if these folks produced a program titled "If only my neighborhood were more diverse" and detailed the relative responsibility for violent crime vis-a-vis FBI stats regarding ethnic minorities??? John and Mike I am sorry but grant me this exemption. DIANE SAWYER AND ABC ARE A PACK OF ******* ASSHOLES and they should be........ Aaaaaaaaah. Never mind.:cuss::cuss:

 

[PavePusher]

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This is, in every possible definition, a hit piece. I made it through about 50 minutes, gotta change the channel. Aaaack.

 

[Infidel]

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Sleepless wrote:

I saw a small Preview from the show on Good Morning America and it seems like it will be a very anti-gun biased show.

They let a guy who had watched a lot of action movies, who had never had a gun and who had absolutely no training first shoot at a target with tiny blue ink bullets and later he was told to sit in a class on safety equipment with his Adapted Glock concealed under his t-shirt and of course being a person who has never carried before, he is ofcourse hyper-concious about his gun andconstantlypulling onhis t-shirt so to make sure that it is concealed and makes it obvious to people that he is carrying.

Then somebody, don't remember who but I think it was the teacher starts shooting with another adapted Glock and the guy without any firearms knowledge except for action movies is supposed to protect his and his classmates lives with his own Glock as he is the only one in the class who is carrying and the class is made up by cops and ABC staff to make it look like a regular class which is stated by 20/20.

I was wondering how it would be if theytook a person who was a firearms owner, who had concealed carry training and was used to concealed carrying in the same situation instead of a person who only had gun training and knew about guns from action movies which is ofcourse not reality.

They also showed a video about kids who were playing with their parents guns without the parents knowing about it.

One youth was interviewed and stated that his friend had a gun laying on the ground behind his door and his parents never knew about it for instance.

Sounds like the anti-gun movement is trying to takesome of the points that the pro-gun movement has made and is trying to skew it to make their own point look like the right one but I think we all know how the anti-gun movement works.

I wonder if writing letters to 20/20 would even be worth it at all.

I created this thread so we could discuss our thoughts about the show before, while and after it has run.

Sleepless, I also started one in the Virginia forum, it has appartently been pulled into this thread. I just found it.

 

[arentol]

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So they take a bunch of kids that have really never been trained in how to handle guns and have them "find loaded guns" in a garage to see what they will do.

It makes the point that I am sure everyone here would agree with, EVERY CHILD should be taught to handle and respect guns. Education is supposedly the key to helping kids avoid STD's, understand and accept people who are different than you like those of other races, religions, and such... So why don't these same people think education is the key to misuse of guns by children?

Stupid.

 

[holeinhead]

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Actually made it the whole way. My reaction... :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

What the hell?! "This is not a debate on the 2nd Amendment"?! I guess she was being honest. For it to be a debate, someone needs to present the other side!

It was so obvious the way they were trying to manipulate emotions to further their view. But the fact that they so easily overlook the other side is sickening! What about Suzanna Hupp's story? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis That's certainly an emotional case.

And at the end about not finding any reliable data. :banghead: Well, can't find anything you're not willing to actually look for.

 

[arentol]

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Yeah, the end statements were just ridiculous.. They said that according to the CDC 60,000 children and young people died from guns in the past 10 years.

Only problem is that when I went to the CDC website and ran the numbers it turns out that "children and young people" actually means everyone under the age of 24

As usual the pro-gun controllers ensure that "Children" refers to the oldest people they can because they know that if they told you the truth that over the last 10 years only 2000 actual children died by firearms you just wouldn't be as upset.

 

[Gene Beasley]

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So many problems with their little test, where to begin. I'll try not to duplicate the one's already mentioned.

A mass shooting rarely begins and ends in the same room. You might be lucky or well trained and be able to end it right there. Realistically, it's going to be the people in the other rooms in that building who will be safer because a gun was in the hands of a friendly.

Age and background. After my first quarter at age 19, I went back when I was 26 and 33. Each time I was not the oldest person there. Each time I had real life experience as an LEO. Each time there was someone else in the class who was former military; some with combat. If their point was that new shooters should train, train, and then train more, well they moved way beyond that - so as to have it appear that no matter how much you train (and showing DEA Agent Lee Paige shoot himself), it's better to play dead and call 911. Realistically, you are going to have a mix of people ranging from clueless up to and possibly including Chuck Norris.

I think John Stossel got shoved aside because he wouldn't play along with their little propaganda piece. I don't expect they will let him refute it either, though that's what I'm going to ask be done.

One last thing - I don't remember coming away with the impression that the shooter was unaware of how many and which students were armed. Did I miss something?

 

[.40 Cal]

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I've learned the error of my ways. After the show last night, I threw all my weapons (including my old cap gun, since it could cause aheart attack) into the ocean. You all should do the same. Guns are evil, and no one but the police should have them... not even our soldiers. All we need to keep us alive is our goodwill and our composure.











F- That!!!!!!!

 

[SouthernBoy]

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I didn't expect it would be a balanced and neutral report, but it was worse than I had anticipated. Reminded me of a "news documentary" that CBS broadcast in the mid-70's called, "The Guns of Autumn".

This show falls into the category of a "positive negative". By this, I mean when one first sees the title, "If Only I Had A Gun", one's first thought might be that it is going to cover people who have become victims of crimes and wished they had had a gun with which to protect themselves. That is a positive. But the then negative sets in as soon as you start to view the program.

This same thing occurs when someone says, "Well yeah, having a gun at hand in dangerous times is comforting, but ...." The use of the word "but" turns the first part of the sentence (a positive) into a negative. We get this all of the time when discussing self defense and firearms with people who are not prone to think as do we.

The program last night was a very slanted report and clearly presented to infuse anger in the general population after what took place a week+ ago in the country. This is not responsible and neutral news reporting - it is sinister and heavily biased towards an agenda which is anti-American.

The very people who are screaming the loudest for something to be done about guns are the same (kinds of) people who have created this monster in the first place. It is they who have visited this mess upon us and now they are expecting, demanding, that we surrender more of our rights to fix what they created.

 

[hsmith]

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I shudder for the 60 minutes report.

 

[James]

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Maybe folks will start paying attention to whats going on. The main stream media, along with Eric Holder, will be gunning for gun owners. We had better be getting ready for it. Start emailing your representatives NOW.

 

[Dispatcher]

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echo6tango wrote:

Dispatcher wrote:

I have to echo another comment made earlier....

They call that a "scenario"? is that a joke? ... Because it's always realistic for Conceal Carry Permit holders to wear rediculously sized clothes and sit in the most vulnerable position in the class as a trained gunman with decades of firearms experience and behavioral training comes walking into the room with the intent of taking lives....

Because Oscar Meyer has a way with B O L O G N A.

Something a poster on ABC website pointed out that I completely missed (as did 20/20)...Although all of the "students" in the scenario "failed" and "died," did you notice that the gunman's attention was diverted enough to allow everyone else to escape the classroom? SO, according to ABC News, even an untrained person with a firearm can save lives! Thanks 20/20!

Of course the worst part of this all..... the thing that really bites me in the ass is, the "gunman" KNEW which "student" was carrying and targetted that person *first off*....

Back in the real world, crazy gunman have little to no firearms experience and shoot the closest and easiest target that is there in front of them. Of friggin' course they all "died" there.. the "gunman" knew who to target from the get-go!

And what really yanks my chain is when they said "and even if the person with the concealed weapon does manage to get their gun out, they might hit and innocent bystander!" Such a thing would be an absolute tragedy.... but lets say you DO hit an innocent, just one, but manage to get the gunman in the process.... how many more DOZENS would have died had you done nothing?

 

[Chuckles]

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Didn't mean to start a new thread. Started this topic in a different forum and got moved here.

I know we have all been waiting for the CBS 60 Minutes pieces Sunday but this was also gun-related. What did you think?

Sorry it's a little long. I just want to give those who didn't watch a little background.

One of the three things they "examined" was how a concealed handgun holder may react during a mass shooting. Here is what they did: (remember it was all a set-up) college students having various firearm experiences were placed in a lecture setting, given a concealed weapon (with some sort of plastic bullet live rounds inside, and I am assuming loaded -P-), when a masked gunmen suddenly bursts in and shoots the instructor first and starts to shoot everyone else.

Now a few things done by 20/20 to "help the gunman out": the armed student was the only one not aware that the gunman would come in and start shooting, the rest in the lecture room are actors or students let in on the "secret" and purposedly scream and run around randomly to create hysteria; the armed student was given a shirt that is three sizes too long to conceal the weapon and make it difficult to draw; upon shooting the instructor, the gunman then immediately takes dead aim, of all the students in the lecture room, at the only one student that has the concealed weapon; and the gunman who came in was a supposedly highly capable firearms instructor. (From a earlier clip, he did use an interesting grip where his strong hand thumb was covered by his weak hand palm.)

For most of the students that participated, they were "shot" before having a chance to draw their weapons or during the process of drawing (and rightly so since he/she had no more than maybe 3-5 seconds before the gunman, very calmly I might add, took aim and shot him/her in the head from about 20 feet away), one was essentially "executed" while taking cover, a few were able to get some rounds off while already "shot dead" in the head and it was clear none of the students had any previous self-defense training in firearms.

20/20 is conclusion is therefore: in a mass shooting situation, having a concealed handgun does NOT do you any good and might get you into legal trouble if you hit one of the innocent by-standers.

I don't know about you, but the moral of the story to me? Open Carry (quicker draw) and more self-defense training is what this country needs.

 

[buster81]

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ABC has started to censor the content of the comments on the web site. Apparently I've been banned because I can't even see the comments and more. Disgusting!

On a different topic, who keeps posting links or content that is 2x the width of the normal screen? The left-right scroll bar is pretty annoying. Stop that!

 

[Gordie]

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I liked the part where they went to the little boy's neighborhood. They didn't condemn the gangbangers who didthe shooting, it was all about the guns fault.

They showed numerous criminal violations in the home videos, includingbrandishing, discharging in a congested area, minors in possession (alcohol and firearms).

Where is the ATF when the one guy admitted to sending minors (under 16 years old) to go buy guns for him? And who was selling these guns to these minors? Surely not a FFL.

Although it is tragic that the boy lost his father, I have to wonder, was his father involved in criminal activity at the time of his death? I would bet almost anything that he was, if not they would have mentioned the innocent victim that his father would have been.