ABC 20/20 Show on Guns Tonight at 10 PM Eastern

[Outsider]

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One of the big things I saw they push was "only cops have the training to do this." Umm... no! I just finished my Bail Enforcement/Recovery class yesterday to get my Utah Bail Recovery Apprentice License and the guy that taught the class is not a law enforcement officer but is a certified Peace Officer Standards and Training Academy firearms instructor. He is really good, learned a lot from him. But they really wanted to push that only cops should be carrying guns and the rest of you are S.O.L.!

I loved at the beginning this cited a guy from the Brady Campaign but no one from NRA or pro-Guns.

I agree with some of the other comments here about the kids in the classroom. It was really stacked against the tester and those that had more training they threw the second shooter at them instead of giving them the same test as the others.

If you are going to carry GET THE TRAINING, right? I think we can all agree to that. Just getting the permit isn't enough. You need the training and how to react and what not. I do not agree that only cops have that training and that we law-biding citizens can't get it.

I had a real hard time getting through this piece... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Outsider]

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Gordie wrote:

Where is the ATF when the one guy admitted to sending minors (under 16 years old) to go buy guns for him? And who was selling these guns to these minors? Surely not a FFL.

They are too busy coming after you, Gordie.

 

[aerolou]

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I saw it and it was just what I expected.

This is why I do not watch 20/20 or 60 minutes unless they are going to something really stupid that will affect our lives.

I have question though. Were the purchases made at the gun show by Omar "straw purchases"? The producers gave him $5000 to purchase firearms for the program.

 

[hunter45]

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I watched it, and I was starting to get pissed off. I turned it off during Omar's trip to the gun show in Richmond.

 

[JosephMingle]

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In the comment section, was the veiled request to keep facts out of the comment section and instead send them to the editors of ABC news always there?

 

[architect]

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Outsider wrote:

If you are going to carry GET THE TRAINING, right? I think we can all agree to that.

I think most 2A supporters would agree, but it is a short step to make it a condition to buy/own/carry at which point the right becomes a privilege.

Should we point out to the antis that they are implying that firearms training be included in public school curricula?

 

[IanB]

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A little blue birdie told me someone is in the process of uploading the file to a download site for those of you who missed the show. The same blue birdie told me that the person who uploaded this file only took this action because the ABC video site requires installation of a custom video player application to view the complete show, something the uploader does not feel a viewer should be required to do.

 

[SoldierMedic]

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I was going to come on here last night and make pretty much the same comments that the initial poster made. You can't expect much better from the liberal media, especially a show like 20/20, but the piece last night REALLY angered me. Talk about one of the most biased "experiments" I have ever seen. The "bad guy" if I remember correctly, was the same instructor who taught the students their basic firearms instruction block prior to the experiment. He obviously knew the exact location that the "armed" student would be placed in the room, which in an actual shooting situation, is stretching it quite a bit. The shirts they wore.... give me a break! They were long, and VERY tight fitting, making a clean and quick drawn almost impossible. Then the holster choice.... a thumb-release leather holster. It takes practice to learn to draw accurately and effectively from any holster, but adding the extra step of a thumbbreak makes it substantially more difficult. The instructor concievablyhad years oftactical experience and range time to his advantage, while the participants had virtually none. Add to it that only ONE of the students was in any way proficient with handguns prior to this show, and you have the perfect recipe for a wieghted "study" by 20/20.

Don't even get me started on the whole gunshow thing.

 

[Chuckles]

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Concealed carry is all about the element of surprise to the bad guy, clearly there was none in this so-called experiment.

Next time on 20/20: A concealed carry handgun holder was rendered helpless when a sniper assassinated him from 300 yards away. More reasons people shouldn't carry because it's obviously useless...

 

[nova]

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hunter45 wrote:

I watched it, and I was starting to get pissed off. I turned it off during Omar's trip to the gun show in Richmond.

Yeah, I'm sure he bought that Glock while waiting in line, even though it clearly had the orange zip tie they provide INSIDE the show...

The whole thing was set up for failure (for gun owners) from the beginning, every single piece of it.

And I don't buy someone went and sold to him even though he refused to show ID. Plus I don't buy that he got all those guns from private sellers, not even at the dulles show have I seen THAT many people walking around with rifles for sale.

COMPLETE BS, every bit of it.

 

[Slayer of Paper]

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Alexcabbie wrote:

I do not know where to begin. I am appaled. This show was/is a piece of crap floating down the river coming out of a pig's butt. And they ended itn with an 'In Memoriam" clip. TO A GUY WHO DIED OF A HEART ATTACK NOT A GUNSHOT WOUND but of course the main point was to link firearms with death, and death of beloved people at that.

I couldn't remember the sponsors for the blood shooting outta my eyes. Somebody come up with a list of sponsors from this abomination. We ned to organize a boycott. YESTERDAY.

Disclaimer: I am NOT trying to take credit for this list. I got it off of another forum. It's excellent work, but I didn't want anyone to think I was taking credit for it.

Let's light em' up:

ABC News
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ABC, Inc.
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President – David Westin

To contact regarding special programming:

http://abcnews.go.com/Site/page?id=3...ews%20Specials

To contact regarding 20/20 programs

http://abcnews.go.com/Site/page?id=3271346&cat=20/20


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[YllwFvr]

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Renegade wrote:

Disgusting.

Major flaws with their "experiment" that deem the information provided entirely useless.

1) Not one of the students accurately reflected the abilities of a "normal" person that carries openly or concealed. The students picked should have represented a normal distribution: some have never carried before, most carried occasionally, some carry 100% of the time. It was good that none of the students had advance knowledge of what was about to happen.

2) The shooter did not accurately reflect the skill level of the "average" mass murderer. First and foremost, the shooter was highly skilled and even more importantly, had prior knowledge that a student with a gun will be in the class and may resist...and it seemed as if they placed that student in the same seat every time - talk about loading the results! They should have used different shooters with different skill levels that had no knowledge of a student being present that may be able to resist.

3) They used a most unusual scenario - a classroom. They should have varied the settings to accurately reflect real life. Maybe have a one scene in a restaurant, one on a city street, another in a classroom, a few in convenience stores (one employee, another customer), one in a persons home, etc.

My suggestion is that VCDL should fund an objective study that accurately answers these questions once and for all. The raw data would be available to all for peer review and extensive documentation would allow replication of the study. I am willing to offer my ability to construct testing, process data, and publish the results.

+1000

I would be willing to be one of the unarmed students. I might get shot up with pellets but cmon WE NEED TO DO THIS! I bet if it worked or was even partially successful it would be shrugged off as "staged".

I didnt see the show, all Im seeing is the comments. It must have been terrible.

Let me know when the birdie gets it up I want to see this!

 

[Task Force 16]

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arentol wrote:

Yeah, the end statements were just ridiculous.. They said that according to the CDC 60,000 children and young people died from guns in the past 10 years.

Only problem is that when I went to the CDC website and ran the numbers it turns out that "children and young people" actually means everyone under the age of 24

As usual the pro-gun controllers ensure that "Children" refers to the oldest people they can because they know that if they told you the truth that over the last 10 years only 2000 actual children died by firearms you just wouldn't be as upset.

There's a good chance thatmany of the "children" included in those numbers were killed by deliberate acts of violence, and not AD incidents.

 

[Outsider]

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architect wrote:

Outsider wrote:

If you are going to carry GET THE TRAINING, right? I think we can all agree to that.

I think most 2A supporters would agree, but it is a short step to make it a condition to buy/own/carry at which point the right becomes a privilege.

Should we point out to the antis that they are implying that firearms training be included in public school curricula?

That is very true about making it a condition. I think it is a personal choice after you get the gun, and permit, and what not.

It is actually on the books here in Utah to teach Firearm Safety in schools but it says "may teach" instead of "shall teach." I think it should be taught in schools. They teach everything else: nuclear drills, earthquake, fire, flood, etc. But not firearms.

 

[TheWarrior]

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I didn't hear about it until seeing it last night; glad y'all watched it to so I know I'm not insane.

I was progressively disgusted. It was a cheap slap, a "informed study" approach intent on "educating" the useful idiots, it was emotional nonsense, it was the very essence of sheeple-ness. One thing I noticed that was ENTIRELY lacking, something that is a driving force behind what we all do: protecting others. I watched the whole thing and didn't hear ONE THING about protecting your families and others. Was it just me or did they merely discuss "our" desire to defend only ourselves?

Spencer

 

[KBCraig]

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From the moment I heard this was being hosted by Diane Sawyer instead of John Stossel, I knew there was no reason to bother watching. I'm glad to hear the reports and analysis of the show, but it's a shame so many people watched it (making more money for ABC by elevating their viewership numbers).

 

[Brigdh]

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Most of you missed, but at the end the 20/20 reporters said that they couldn't find one pro-gun study that wasn't flawed or satisfactory. I nearly threw something at my TV when i heard that.

 

[sniper65]

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Hello everyone, I was just totally disgusted about the way we are lied to by the so called experts. I have always been told that an EXPERT is a has been drip under pressure. Anyway I got on there web site and place a comment to them. I may get flamed from some but here is a copy of what I sent them.

:shock:
Hello, first off I would like to tell you that the show on guns was very biased. You didn't show the facts as they are you showed what you think they should be. What a bunch of idiots you are. Hitler was very fond of gun control. Look what that idiot did and you are all trying to get us in the same shape. I was born with the right to keep and bare arms and I plan on doing it until the day I die. Even in the bible it says that let the man that has no sword sell his garment and buy a sword. You are all trying to take away my rights but let me enlighten you about something. I have been around guns all my life. I am also a FFL holder. Just because YOU are sheep and want the rest of us to be is one thing but I and a lot of AMERICANS don't tend to be sheep. You say guns are bad and kill people. Guns are tools just like a hammer or a screwdriver or any other number of items. But you tell me, how many people get killed in the US in a years time from guns? How many people were saved in a years time by having a gun? Now YOU TELL ME how many people got killed by a drunk driver in the same year? You see that I believe you are biased and a bunch of idiots. That is my opinion. I would have loved for you to switch the parts in the class room and put your EXPERT as a student. Why didn't you use other data? You had it made up in advance that your EXPERT would win. Well I have been under fire before and I can tell you that things like the way you played them don't happen. If the truth was told and far be it for me to tell you knuckle dragging apes what the truth is. The whole show was a setup to begin with. I am also sure that this will never be put on the air. So why am I telling you this? Because it is my RIGHT as an AMERICAN to do so. You can contact me direct if you wish. God Bless AMERICA and the 2nd Amendment.
Rev. Carl Cook

So please understand that I was a little long winded:celebrate but I am sick and tired of these idiots trying to tell me and every other LAW ABIDING person that THEY know what is best for me. They can't clean there own house but they want to help me get rid of my guns and my rights. Hey if they don't like guns, that's fine then they shouldn't buy them. And when they are mugged or raped and killed or has there home invaded by someone then don't call a cop because he has a gun. Please understand that I have many friends in law enforcement and have nothing but the utmost respect for them. I like having cops (ARMED) and I just can't abide by the idiots telling me that I should NOT be allowed to have my guns. They act like they were the ones in school that were hall monitors. Anyway please forgive me for ranting but it just burns me up that good honest AMERICANS are under fire from this bunch of IDIOTS. I remember a certain IDIOT that stood up in front of the tv and I think congress and held up an (AK47) and tried to put the wrong mag in it. Number one it was NOT an AK-47. It was a sporter civilian version of the weapon and not an ak and not capable of full auto fire. She said it wasn't even made to aim just spray and pray. What an idiot she is. She should be ran out of town on a rail along with the rest of these fools. I again am sorry for ranting but we need to wake up and VOTE for who we want and get rid of the fools and want to be's that are in office. Thanks for letting me vent and GOD BLESS AMERICA and the 2ND Amendment.
Sniper65
Rev. Carl Cook

 

[IanB]

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Ok, my little blue birdie told me the video has been uploaded. The blue birdie provided me with the following link:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QNXGL1TD

Please share with the other gun boards you frequent.

 

[Francis Marion]

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A classic example of Prolefeed. "Winston, how many fingers am I holding up?"