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Arts Beats and Eats

DetroitBiker

DetroitBiker

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
318
Location
USA
I don`t think Mr.Witz was trying to bribe us or pay us off sorta speak
He seemed respectful of our rights to carry in general.In my opinion he believes
that the AB&E agreement with the city allows them to have some kind of
lease /or property rights over the event area. And was just trying to
avoid some kind of confrontation with open carriers at the Event.
He didn`t have to offer a free booth to MOC at all,He could have said "tuff
S*** we are not changing anything and you are gonna have to take this
on in court" But instead he stuck around after the commision meeting and talked
with us. And from the impression I got from him, was that he really
thinks that they will prevail in this matter. And that AB&E was not
just gonna have a change of heart and draw up a new contract.
And from the reaction from the commissioners it didn`t look like
they were ready to step in and change anything either.Now the question is
what other steps can we take to force them to change this contract.
just showing up at the meetings and repeating ourselfs doesn`t seem
like its going to convince them.Has there been any talks set up between
the city attorney,AB&E management,and the Open Carry reps?
If no change comes about, What is the next step?
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
eastmeyers said:
Since I have this conversation recorded, I was courious if this MCL would apply to our friend Mr. Witz?
MCL 750.125
http://legislature.mi.gov/(S(gpjo2i...ject&objectName=mcl-750-125&highlight=bribery
(bam)
The part I am courious about is in (1) near the end when it says "...in relation to his or her principal's..."
Click to expand...

IANAL!

MCL 750.125 (1) appears to be related to Business Transactions and would only apply if the persons offered were part of some business entity.

There is a ABE Thread over in MGO in the Legal Beagles Section - you could post this same question there as well (there are lawyers in that area).
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
DetroitBiker said:
I don`t think Mr.Witz was trying to bribe us or pay us off sorta speak
He seemed respectful of our rights to carry in general.In my opinion he believes
that the AB&E agreement with the city allows them to have some kind of
lease /or property rights over the event area. And was just trying to
avoid some kind of confrontation with open carriers at the Event.
He didn`t have to offer a free booth to MOC at all,He could have said "tuff
S*** we are not changing anything and you are gonna have to take this
on in court" But instead he stuck around after the commision meeting and talked
with us. And from the impression I got from him, was that he really
thinks that they will prevail in this matter. And that AB&E was not
just gonna have a change of heart and draw up a new contract.
And from the reaction from the commissioners it didn`t look like
they were ready to step in and change anything either.Now the question is
what other steps can we take to force them to change this contract.
just showing up at the meetings and repeating ourselfs doesn`t seem
like its going to convince them.Has there been any talks set up between
the city attorney,AB&E management,and the Open Carry reps?
If no change comes about, What is the next step?
Click to expand...

ALL THAT FOLLOWS IS IN MY OPINION ONLY - IANAL!!!

I believe that Jon Witz is not a bad guy either. He has a specific agenda and will stick to that agenda if at all possible. The offer of the table was to "make the issue go away", you can decide for yourselves what that means. If his position was strong, he would not have made this offer so quickly.

I believe that the Arts, Beats, and Eats Festival will be a beneficial relationship for The City Of Royal Oak and ABE Inc - it will be very successful and I hope it is so. I have been to this festival in the past and enjoyed it immensely!

The Royal Oak City Attorney has committed to meeting with ABE to discuss the issues we have raised, as has been posted here. Mr Jon Witz is looking into the issues as well, which he communicated directly to me and was posted here. At this point, the balls are in their courts and it is a waiting game to some extent. I will not post any action plan in a public forum that will harm the ability to effect the change necessary. At this point, I urge patience for a few days until we hear back from ABE Inc. and/or The City Of Royal Oak.
 
eastmeyers

eastmeyers

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
1,363
Location
Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
But in the past they have invited .38 Special

http://www.artsbeatseats.com/?q=node/1 (bam)

"Info Guide


Ford Arts, Beats & Eats, presented by Citizens Bank was founded to celebrate the quality of life in Oakland County by offering a culturally unique presentation of artists, musicians and food exhibits, from the Metro Detroit area, and throughout the United States. In November of 2009, Arts, Beats & Eats announced it would be moving from its former location in the City of Pontiac to Downtown Royal Oak.
The festival was designed to provide outstanding family entertainment at a very low cost. In 2009 the festival added an admission fee. This $3 admission fee supports the festival and community as follows: .25 to Arts Advocacy, .25 to the City of Royal Oak, and 50% of the remaining admission fees to 13 local charities after gating costs. For a list of non-profit partners that will share our admission fee, click here. To date, over $2 million raised by Ford Arts, Beats & Eats has been donated to charity.
Now entering its thirteenth year, Arts, Beats and Eats has celebrated many successes, including attracting large crowds each year, earning top rankings for its juried fine arts show, securing top national entertainment, and providing unique interactive programs for the family. Past music performers at Arts, Beats & Eats have included Brian McKnight, Montgomery Gentry, Live, The B52's, Wilco, The Isley Brothers, Collective Soul, Paul Rodgers of Bad Company, Martina McBride, G Love & Special Sauce, David Benoit, Jodee Messina, Blues Traveler, 38 Special, Rick Springfield, and many more. The festival has something to offer to everyone, in a child-friendly, safe and secure environment.



© 2010 Ford Arts, Beats & Eats - site designed by skidmore studio"


So if I just load my .357mag with .38special I will be welcomed with open arms, right?
 
Last edited:
NHCGRPR45

NHCGRPR45

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
1,131
Location
Chesterfield Township, MI
yes he can be admired for sticking to his "guns" on this, but that dosen't make him any less wrong. and on the bribe issue " if it walks like a duck,,,," seems pretty clear cut to me.

c'mon guys if you just let this go, not carry your guns, then i'll give your group 10,000 bucks.

hmmmmm

quack quack
 
eastmeyers

eastmeyers

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Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
1,363
Location
Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
NHCGRPR45 said:
yes he can be admired for sticking to his "guns" on this, but that dosen't make him any less wrong. and on the bribe issue " if it walks like a duck,,,," seems pretty clear cut to me.

c'mon guys if you just let this go, not carry your guns, then i'll give your group 10,000 bucks.

hmmmmm

quack quack
Click to expand...

This was my thought...
 
J

jvanhorn

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
55
Location
Bangor, Michigan, USA
bandersnatch said:
"I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna serve notice to everybody...I'm gonna be armed from here on out."
Click to expand...

Would that not be the appropriate response?

If every member of the City Commission came in and laid their sidearm on the table in front of them, would they not be more "comfortable"?
 
Last edited:
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

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Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
jvanhorn said:
Would that not be the appropriate response?

If every member of the City Commission came in and laid their sidearm on the table in front of them, would they not be more "comfortable"?
Click to expand...

To assume this, members of the City Commission would actually have to OWN FIREARMS. My bet is that perhaps 2 or 3 actually do. My opinion is that at least 2 of them are anti's and 3 more would infringe upon our firearm rights given the chance to do so.
 
Q

Quaamik

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Dec 14, 2007
Messages
11
Location
, ,
scot623 said:
My main issue with this is that the MOC reps wouldn't be allowed to carry a firearm per the handshake agreement. What would the MOC reps tell people asking questions about where their firearms are at? Tell them we sold our right to carry for the cost of this table? I'm not a fan of that idea, although it isn't my call.
Click to expand...

I would have the MOC representatives tell anyone who asked that thier firearms were concealed as per and agreement with the promoter of Art, Beats & Eats.

Just because we can carry openly doesn't mean we always have to.

The main issue is asking MOC to stop pushing the issue. That is a compromise that (IMHO) should never be made.
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

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Joined
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Messages
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SE, Michigan, USA
Quaamik said:
I would have the MOC representatives tell anyone who asked that thier firearms were concealed as per and agreement with the promoter of Art, Beats & Eats.

Just because we can carry openly doesn't mean we always have to.

The main issue is asking MOC to stop pushing the issue. That is a compromise that (IMHO) should never be made.
Click to expand...

Some of us are just persons who have taken up the issue. I am not a member of MOC, Inc.
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

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Last edited:
NHCGRPR45

NHCGRPR45

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Messages
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Location
Chesterfield Township, MI
i sent an email to the author asking him to mention why i was in military fatigues. i would prefer the reason i had them on was mentioned. to much can be assumed as to why i had military fatigues on. like hes a militia guy, or he likes to play dress up. i believe in the militias but with the recent poor publicity on them i would prefer to not have negative view cast on the royal oak meeting because of an assumtion. i asked for him to maybe write a reason as to why i had on military fatigues. maybe mention i was in the army. and it was an army uniform. other than that it was a very positive article.
 
1245A Defender

1245A Defender

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Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,365
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
im sorry that i missed that in my reading of the article too,
there is a Big difference between, wearing fatigues,
and wearing the uniform of the United States Army!!!

thank you for your service, to our country, and at the meeting!
 
Bronson

Bronson

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Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,126
Location
Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
When you wrote that you were going to wear your uniform I just assumed it was going to be your dress uniform. Perhaps that would have been a better choice.

Bronson
 
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