Dreamer
Regular Member
imported post
Oh, yeah... duh--I've never been good at math...
Oh, yeah... duh--I've never been good at math...
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Backpacker kills bear in Denali National Park
- Thread starter taurusfan
- Start date
RedKnightt
Regular Member
imported post
Dreamer wrote:
Dreamer wrote:
My EDC is a "Baby Eagle" Jericho clone, which carries 10+1 in .45ACP. Plenty of non-1911 handguns in .45ACP
t33j
Regular Member
imported post
?
I'm saying if you shoot 9 and have no spare, you're all out. What if the bear didn't go down? What if you're in the middle of nowhere? Now you've got miles and miles to hike unarmed.
Just add this to the list of reasons (just below, "because I feel like it") why someone might carry extra mags.
?
I'm saying if you shoot 9 and have no spare, you're all out. What if the bear didn't go down? What if you're in the middle of nowhere? Now you've got miles and miles to hike unarmed.
Just add this to the list of reasons (just below, "because I feel like it") why someone might carry extra mags.
taurusfan
Regular Member
imported post
Grapeshot wrote:
Referring specifically to black bears in Shenandoah National Park apparently there is no record of one ever having attacked a human there.
Some of the bears I've seen in Shenandoah had 30 people around them taking pictures at the side of the road ... attacking was about the last thing on their mind.
I don't think anything's gonna change in that park I figure people always had guns anyway.
Grapeshot wrote:
Referring specifically to black bears in Shenandoah National Park apparently there is no record of one ever having attacked a human there.
Some of the bears I've seen in Shenandoah had 30 people around them taking pictures at the side of the road ... attacking was about the last thing on their mind.
I don't think anything's gonna change in that park I figure people always had guns anyway.
PT111
Regular Member
imported post
From the OP where he was referencing Skyline Drive about the bluff charge and not Denali. I didn't see where anyone was talking about Grizzly's and bluff charges. The fellow put 9-.45 slugs in the bear so he stopped and walked away. Lucky that the bear didn't keep on with the charge since the "one shot stop from a .45" didn't work there.
Now the .40 s&w is probably fine with the black bears in the East but for the Grizzly's in Denali you might better look at 12ga slugs or be sure you have extra mags. Idon't have any experience with them but I understand that you need more than a9mmto hunt Polar Bears and they don't like people any more than Grizzly's do.
From the OP where he was referencing Skyline Drive about the bluff charge and not Denali. I didn't see where anyone was talking about Grizzly's and bluff charges. The fellow put 9-.45 slugs in the bear so he stopped and walked away. Lucky that the bear didn't keep on with the charge since the "one shot stop from a .45" didn't work there.
Now the .40 s&w is probably fine with the black bears in the East but for the Grizzly's in Denali you might better look at 12ga slugs or be sure you have extra mags. Idon't have any experience with them but I understand that you need more than a9mmto hunt Polar Bears and they don't like people any more than Grizzly's do.
Thos.Jefferson
Regular Member
imported post
Only a jackass would go hiking in an area that is home to grizzlies in the first place. Hiking in such an area with only a handgun is tantamount to suicide. Those folks are lucky to be alive.
Only a jackass would go hiking in an area that is home to grizzlies in the first place. Hiking in such an area with only a handgun is tantamount to suicide. Those folks are lucky to be alive.
Dreamer
Regular Member
imported post
glockfan wrote:
You are MUCH more likely to be attacked, raped, or killed by 2-legged predators in Shenandoah...
http://labyrinth13.com/mirror/VirginiaMurders/index.htm
The fact is that you are more likely to be killed by domestic dogs, bees (yes, bees!) or a lightning strike in North America...
Black bears do attack humans, but it is very rare. Only 60 people have been killed by black bears in the US since 1900.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America
I would think that anyone hiking in Grizzly country should at the least, pack one of those BIG cans of pepper spray (the ones that look like fire extinguishers) and a 454 Casull.
glockfan wrote:
Actually, in the 1980's a research was attacked in Shenandoah NP, but escaped with only a minor "swipe" and minor injuries...
You are MUCH more likely to be attacked, raped, or killed by 2-legged predators in Shenandoah...
http://labyrinth13.com/mirror/VirginiaMurders/index.htm
The fact is that you are more likely to be killed by domestic dogs, bees (yes, bees!) or a lightning strike in North America...
Overall Fatal Attacks In North America
Fatal attacks by Black Bears on humans are very rare. According to data from the National Center for Health Statistics, for every person killed by a Black Bear in North America, 60 are killed by domestic dogs, 180 by bees, and 350 by lightning. To date, only 60 people have been killed in Black Bear attacks across North America since 1900, and 45 of those deaths took place in Alaska or Canada, where there is usually little contact between bears and people. The fatal attacks that have occurred were primarily unprovoked, predatory assaults in remote areas in which the victim was eaten. There is no consistent explanation why 1 out of every 1/2 million Black Bears becomes a human predator.
http://www.shenandoahviews.com/BlackBears/Fatal attacks by Black Bears on humans are very rare. According to data from the National Center for Health Statistics, for every person killed by a Black Bear in North America, 60 are killed by domestic dogs, 180 by bees, and 350 by lightning. To date, only 60 people have been killed in Black Bear attacks across North America since 1900, and 45 of those deaths took place in Alaska or Canada, where there is usually little contact between bears and people. The fatal attacks that have occurred were primarily unprovoked, predatory assaults in remote areas in which the victim was eaten. There is no consistent explanation why 1 out of every 1/2 million Black Bears becomes a human predator.
Black bears do attack humans, but it is very rare. Only 60 people have been killed by black bears in the US since 1900.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America
I would think that anyone hiking in Grizzly country should at the least, pack one of those BIG cans of pepper spray (the ones that look like fire extinguishers) and a 454 Casull.
t33j
Regular Member
gis
Regular Member
imported post
I could swear that there was a dead black bear (run over by a vehicle) on the shoulder of eastboud I66 at about mile marker 25-30 a couple of days ago. That's almost NoVA. Most people(I hope) would take precautions while hiking, but imagine one wondering into your backyard. Have to be prepared 24x7.
I could swear that there was a dead black bear (run over by a vehicle) on the shoulder of eastboud I66 at about mile marker 25-30 a couple of days ago. That's almost NoVA. Most people(I hope) would take precautions while hiking, but imagine one wondering into your backyard. Have to be prepared 24x7.
virginiatuck
Regular Member
imported post
gis wrote:
Has the tourism economy gotten so bad now that bears have to come out of the forests and parks to find human garbage?
Dreamer mentioned "bear whisperer" earlier. Did anyone catch that show on Animal Planet a few weekends ago? It was several hours long and followed Steve Searles around Mammoth Lakes, Ca. By the way, he openly carries what appeared to be a revolver of some sort; and he has a large arsenal of less-than-lethal weapons and bear deterrents. I think they're going to make it a regular series.
gis wrote:
That's the highway doing its job, I guess... keeping wildlife out of my backyard.
Has the tourism economy gotten so bad now that bears have to come out of the forests and parks to find human garbage?
Dreamer mentioned "bear whisperer" earlier. Did anyone catch that show on Animal Planet a few weekends ago? It was several hours long and followed Steve Searles around Mammoth Lakes, Ca. By the way, he openly carries what appeared to be a revolver of some sort; and he has a large arsenal of less-than-lethal weapons and bear deterrents. I think they're going to make it a regular series.
KBCraig
Regular Member
imported post
t33j wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVS1UfCfxlU
"Oh look! An eagle!"
t33j wrote:
Silly Brit. He should have followed the John West example!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVS1UfCfxlU
"Oh look! An eagle!"
Packer fan
Regular Member
imported post
KBCraig wrote:
I laugh every time I see that. Who needs a gun just use a distraction. :lol:
KBCraig wrote:
I laugh every time I see that. Who needs a gun just use a distraction. :lol:
Paul_
New member
imported post
Or he could have been carrying a 1911 government model and using 10-round Chip McCormick Power Mag's:
http://www.cmcmags.com/Powerplus.html
Or he could have been carrying a 1911 government model and using 10-round Chip McCormick Power Mag's:
http://www.cmcmags.com/Powerplus.html
Dreamer
Regular Member
imported post
Am I the only one who is SERIOUSLY irked by the way the media treats irearms-related reporting?
When some douchebag fumble-fingered Jihadi wannabee stuffs an SUV with firecrackers and Coleman fuel in NYC, and they later find a gun in his car at the airport, the news tells you the make, model, capacity, color, dealer where he bought it, and the complete inventory and history of the manufacturer.
But when some LAW-ABIDING citizen uses a firearm to SAVE A FREAKING LIFE, the media just says "he used his handgun"...
WTF?
Am I the only one who sees through this ruse?
When a criminal or a madman gets caught with a gun, you hear ALL the intricate, blown-out-of-proportion (and often incorrect) detail about that specific firearm, and they take GREAT pains to describe just HOW much more deadly it is than the guns that cops or even soldiers carry. They put out a Herculean effort to try and dazzle people with firearms "facts" and use all sort of technical mumbo-jumbo to scare and confuse people, and through information overload, make the inference that ALL people who own guns and are knowledgeable about them are crazed, psychopathic wack-jobs who are just WAITING to go completely "postal" at the drop of a hat.
But when a law-abiding citizen saves a life or thwarts a deadly crime in progress, they TOTALLY gloss over the firearm, or the level of training and responsibility of the owner. They NEVER tell you how this guy scrimped and saved for two years so that he could have his grandfather's WWII 1911 custom rebuilt by Dan Wesson, or how she worked two jobs so she could buy a new subcompact Glock and go to Gunsite for a Defense Training Intensive...
The media sucks.
And why aren't WE, as law-aiding gun owners, calling into EVERY single radio, TV, and internet news show EVERY hour, on the hour when events like this happen, and calling the media out on their shameless bias against comprehensively covering the important technical details of these lawful firearms-related events. Why aren't we calling them out on their fear-mongering and relentless information-overload tactics when a criminal does something bad with a gun?
They do it because we LET them get away with it.
Get online. Program the phone numbers and email addresses of ALL your local news outlets into your cell phones and give them an ear full the next time this happens.
Tell them that the ONLY people who are interested in the intimate technical details of the firearm a criminal uses in his latest crime are OTHER CRIMINALS, and let them know that if THAT is the audience they are catering to, then you're just not going to listen to them anymore.
Tell them that when a law-abiding citizen uses a firearm to defend themselves or their family, that we are ALL very interested in that, because we need to know what works, and how it works, so that we, as law-abiding citizens may employ similar tools in our own defense, and thereby keep our communities safer.
Media bastards. They all suck...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynmrRSvw3ek
http://www.youtube.com/jimathers#p/u/99/N8RwkNKIh6s
Am I the only one who is SERIOUSLY irked by the way the media treats irearms-related reporting?
When some douchebag fumble-fingered Jihadi wannabee stuffs an SUV with firecrackers and Coleman fuel in NYC, and they later find a gun in his car at the airport, the news tells you the make, model, capacity, color, dealer where he bought it, and the complete inventory and history of the manufacturer.
But when some LAW-ABIDING citizen uses a firearm to SAVE A FREAKING LIFE, the media just says "he used his handgun"...
WTF?
Am I the only one who sees through this ruse?
When a criminal or a madman gets caught with a gun, you hear ALL the intricate, blown-out-of-proportion (and often incorrect) detail about that specific firearm, and they take GREAT pains to describe just HOW much more deadly it is than the guns that cops or even soldiers carry. They put out a Herculean effort to try and dazzle people with firearms "facts" and use all sort of technical mumbo-jumbo to scare and confuse people, and through information overload, make the inference that ALL people who own guns and are knowledgeable about them are crazed, psychopathic wack-jobs who are just WAITING to go completely "postal" at the drop of a hat.
But when a law-abiding citizen saves a life or thwarts a deadly crime in progress, they TOTALLY gloss over the firearm, or the level of training and responsibility of the owner. They NEVER tell you how this guy scrimped and saved for two years so that he could have his grandfather's WWII 1911 custom rebuilt by Dan Wesson, or how she worked two jobs so she could buy a new subcompact Glock and go to Gunsite for a Defense Training Intensive...
The media sucks.
And why aren't WE, as law-aiding gun owners, calling into EVERY single radio, TV, and internet news show EVERY hour, on the hour when events like this happen, and calling the media out on their shameless bias against comprehensively covering the important technical details of these lawful firearms-related events. Why aren't we calling them out on their fear-mongering and relentless information-overload tactics when a criminal does something bad with a gun?
They do it because we LET them get away with it.
Get online. Program the phone numbers and email addresses of ALL your local news outlets into your cell phones and give them an ear full the next time this happens.
Tell them that the ONLY people who are interested in the intimate technical details of the firearm a criminal uses in his latest crime are OTHER CRIMINALS, and let them know that if THAT is the audience they are catering to, then you're just not going to listen to them anymore.
Tell them that when a law-abiding citizen uses a firearm to defend themselves or their family, that we are ALL very interested in that, because we need to know what works, and how it works, so that we, as law-abiding citizens may employ similar tools in our own defense, and thereby keep our communities safer.
Media bastards. They all suck...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynmrRSvw3ek
http://www.youtube.com/jimathers#p/u/99/N8RwkNKIh6s
Rottie
Regular Member
imported post
richarcm wrote:
The story says he fired Nine rounds. Where did it say all nine rounds hit the bear? Is there anyone who can provide a link that shows how many actually hit the bear? I think we are just assuming that all nine found their mark.
richarcm wrote:
The story says he fired Nine rounds. Where did it say all nine rounds hit the bear? Is there anyone who can provide a link that shows how many actually hit the bear? I think we are just assuming that all nine found their mark.
2a4all
Regular Member
imported post
Rottie wrote:
Rottie wrote:
In the 1st (or 2nd) episode of "Lost", Sawyer took down a Polar Bear with the 9mm(?) he took off the dead US Marshal. I didn't count the shots and don't know if they all hit their mark, but what would he or this hikerhave done if he used them all and the bear kept coming? At what point does one say "Oh $hit!" and attempt to adopt Plan B?
taurusfan
Regular Member
imported post
Rottie wrote:
Here's a good video showing black bear bluff charging after the 2 minute mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkwy0scRXBU
Rottie wrote:
Yeah we don't know where they hit and how many ...
Here's a good video showing black bear bluff charging after the 2 minute mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkwy0scRXBU
Rottie
Regular Member
imported post
2a4all wrote:
I'd rather take my chances shooting, IF I HAD TOO ONLY, because if I didn't kill the bear and it killed me, It'll be easier for the dogs to track so rangers could put it down to ensure I was it's last victim.
2a4all wrote:
I hate the show lost! To answer your question of when does one say holly crap and adopt plan B. Well, the gun would be that plan when all else has failed. If they can prove that these hikers, or any one else in this kind of situation, had any other choice besides shooting, criminal charges are or will be forthcoming. To answer your question about what would the hikers have done if all the bullets were gone and the bear kept coming? Simple,they would do exactly what they would have done if they did not have the gun. Fight for their lives using any means available, because all other options are gone!
I'd rather take my chances shooting, IF I HAD TOO ONLY, because if I didn't kill the bear and it killed me, It'll be easier for the dogs to track so rangers could put it down to ensure I was it's last victim.
cscitney87
Regular Member
imported post
For the record- these guys weren't "Jack offs" because they hiked in known bear territory. Millions of visitors to parks across the globe are hiking through known bear territory. Yeah.. not always Grizzlies.. sometimes those Africans hike through Lion territory.. and Tiger territory.. Those Aussies swim in shark infested ocean water..
People are going to do what they do- animal threat or not. Just like Us- we will carry when we can but aren't afraid to go naked where firearms are forbidden. Coors Field legally bans all weapons- but bet your bottom dollar I'll go to a Rockies ball game.
Point is.. Nobody is Stupid for hiking in bear country.
Second point.. HOLY CRAP A .45 ACP STOPPED IT!???!!!?? Now THAT is sweet! My girl and I carry our firearms when we hike- she has a 9 and I use my .45 and .40 sometimes... We've had the convo a million times- what to do when we are attacked by wild life. I personal consider .45 ACP to be the extremely bare minimum to even have a remote chance of stopping a charging bear. Now that's been basically confirmed- I feel a little better.
I would definitely love to know what ammunition he was packing. My thought is a basic JHP isn't going to phase the bear as the bullet would barely make it passed the thick hair and fat layers.
My basic bear carry is ball ammo.
For the record- these guys weren't "Jack offs" because they hiked in known bear territory. Millions of visitors to parks across the globe are hiking through known bear territory. Yeah.. not always Grizzlies.. sometimes those Africans hike through Lion territory.. and Tiger territory.. Those Aussies swim in shark infested ocean water..
People are going to do what they do- animal threat or not. Just like Us- we will carry when we can but aren't afraid to go naked where firearms are forbidden. Coors Field legally bans all weapons- but bet your bottom dollar I'll go to a Rockies ball game.
Point is.. Nobody is Stupid for hiking in bear country.
Second point.. HOLY CRAP A .45 ACP STOPPED IT!???!!!?? Now THAT is sweet! My girl and I carry our firearms when we hike- she has a 9 and I use my .45 and .40 sometimes... We've had the convo a million times- what to do when we are attacked by wild life. I personal consider .45 ACP to be the extremely bare minimum to even have a remote chance of stopping a charging bear. Now that's been basically confirmed- I feel a little better.
I would definitely love to know what ammunition he was packing. My thought is a basic JHP isn't going to phase the bear as the bullet would barely make it passed the thick hair and fat layers.
My basic bear carry is ball ammo.