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Backpacker kills bear in Denali National Park

P

PavePusher

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virginiatuck wrote:
virginiatuck wrote:
glockfan wrote:
<snip>
Lot's of interesting things here; 45 ACP versus grizzly (9 shots), legal to carry illegal to discharge, 1st killing of a bear with the new law allowing carry in national parks.
Click to expand...
If I'm not mistaken, some National Parks in Alaska already allowed the carrying of firearms prior to the "new law." Denali may have been one of them. I'm trying to find a copy of the old rules now.
Click to expand...

Here are the rules as they were in 2008. They also appear to be the same for 2006 and other prior years. I believe it to be true that firearms were allowed to be carried in Denali National Park prior to this year's change in Federal law:

36 CFR Sec. 2.4 Weapons, traps and nets.
<snip>
Code: 
(a)(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section and parts 7 
(special regulations) and 13 (Alaska regulations), the following are 
prohibited:
(i) Possessing a weapon, trap or net
<snip>


36 CFR Sec. 13.30 Weapons, traps and nets.
<snip>
Code: 
(b) Paragraphs (d) through (g) of this section apply to all park 
areas in Alaska except Klondike Gold Rush National Historical Park, 
Sitka National Historical Park and the former Mt. McKinley National 
Park, Glacier Bay National Monument and Katmai National Monument.
(c) Except as provided in this section and Sec. 2.4 of this 
chapter, the following are prohibited--
(1) Possessing a weapon, trap, or net;
(2) Carrying a weapon, trap, or net;
(3) Using a weapon, trap, or net.
(d) Firearms may be carried, possessed, and used within park areas 
in accordance with applicable State and Federal laws, except where such 
carrying, possession, or use is prohibited or otherwise restricted under 
Sec. 13.50.
<snip>


36 CFR Sec. 13.50 Closure procedures.
<snip>
Code: 
(a) Authority. The Superintendent may close an area or restrict an 
activity on an emergency, temporary, or permanent basis.
<snip>



The NPS web page for Denali National Park is incorrect in its statement "[a]s of February 22, 2010, a new federal law allows people who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal and Alaska state law, to legally possess firearms within Denali National Park and Preserve."



If you hear anyone blame the new Federal law for the allegedly unjustified death of this bear, make sure you let them know that the carrying of firearms was already allowed in Denali National Park prior to the new Federal law.
Click to expand...
I don't seem to see the part which says you can carry for protection from wildlife. If I'm missing it, or you are still looking, my apologies.
 
P

PavePusher

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cscitney87 wrote:
For the record- these guys weren't "Jack offs" because they hiked in known bear territory. Millions of visitors to parks across the globe are hiking through known bear territory. Yeah.. not always Grizzlies.. sometimes those Africans hike through Lion territory.. and Tiger territory.. Those Aussies swim in shark infested ocean water..

People are going to do what they do- animal threat or not. Just like Us- we will carry when we can but aren't afraid to go naked where firearms are forbidden. Coors Field legally bans all weapons- but bet your bottom dollar I'll go to a Rockies ball game.

Point is.. Nobody is Stupid for hiking in bear country.

Second point.. HOLY CRAP A .45 ACP STOPPED IT!???!!!?? Now THAT is sweet! My girl and I carry our firearms when we hike- she has a 9 and I use my .45 and .40 sometimes... We've had the convo a million times- what to do when we are attacked by wild life. I personal consider .45 ACP to be the extremely bare minimum to even have a remote chance of stopping a charging bear. Now that's been basically confirmed- I feel a little better.

I would definitely love to know what ammunition he was packing. My thought is a basic JHP isn't going to phase the bear as the bullet would barely make it passed the thick hair and fat layers.

My basic bear carry is ball ammo.
Click to expand...

I still think that any bear-defense gun in Alaska (or anywhere near grizz or brownies/Kodiacs), should start at .44 Magnum as a minimum, and go larger, rapidly.

"Hand-Cannon" is a start.
 
A

Aaron1124

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PavePusher wrote:
cscitney87 wrote:
For the record- these guys weren't "Jack offs" because they hiked in known bear territory. Millions of visitors to parks across the globe are hiking through known bear territory. Yeah.. not always Grizzlies.. sometimes those Africans hike through Lion territory.. and Tiger territory.. Those Aussies swim in shark infested ocean water..

People are going to do what they do- animal threat or not. Just like Us- we will carry when we can but aren't afraid to go naked where firearms are forbidden. Coors Field legally bans all weapons- but bet your bottom dollar I'll go to a Rockies ball game.

Point is.. Nobody is Stupid for hiking in bear country.

Second point.. HOLY CRAP A .45 ACP STOPPED IT!???!!!?? Now THAT is sweet! My girl and I carry our firearms when we hike- she has a 9 and I use my .45 and .40 sometimes... We've had the convo a million times- what to do when we are attacked by wild life. I personal consider .45 ACP to be the extremely bare minimum to even have a remote chance of stopping a charging bear. Now that's been basically confirmed- I feel a little better.

I would definitely love to know what ammunition he was packing. My thought is a basic JHP isn't going to phase the bear as the bullet would barely make it passed the thick hair and fat layers.

My basic bear carry is ball ammo.
Click to expand...

I still think that any bear-defense gun in Alaska (or anywhere near grizz or brownies/Kodiacs), should start at .44 Magnum as a minimum, and go larger, rapidly.

"Hand-Cannon" is a start.
Click to expand...
I agree. Some people feel comfortable using a .357, but I would want at least a .44 magnum. Even though a .45 can obviously do the job, it's a huge chance, and he had to put 9 rounds in him. Many .45's hold 10 max.
 
Grapeshot

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cscitney87 wrote:
Second point.. HOLY CRAP A .45 ACP STOPPED IT!???!!!?? Now THAT is sweet! My girl and I carry our firearms when we hike- she has a 9 and I use my .45 and .40 sometimes... We've had the convo a million times- what to do when we are attacked by wild life. I personal consider .45 ACP to be the extremely bare minimum to even have a remote chance of stopping a charging bear. Now that's been basically confirmed- I feel a little better.

I would definitely love to know what ammunition he was packing. My thought is a basic JHP isn't going to phase the bear as the bullet would barely make it passed the thick hair and fat layers.

My basic bear carry is ball ammo.
Click to expand...

His .45 didn't really "stop" the grizzly. Just kind of changed its mind.

Can't say that I'd want to count on being able to repeat that.

Yata hey
 
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Judge.410

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Kimber and Wilson Combat make 8 rd tacticalmags and 1 in the tube makes 9.....thats what I carry.....cocked and locked .....Kimber Pro carry II with Extreme Shock .45 acp . When in Bear country I would carry a 12ga. 870 with 3in. mags. alternating 00 buck with slugs....and a lot of prayer.....even with deadly hits , with the bears slow heart rate he can kill you while he's dies....I never want to even see another one in the wild!!!
 
C

cscitney87

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Grapeshot wrote:
cscitney87 wrote:
Second point.. HOLY CRAP A .45 ACP STOPPED IT!???!!!??
Click to expand...

His .45 didn't really "stop" the grizzly. Just kind of changed its mind.

Can't say that I'd want to count on being able to repeat that.

Yata hey
Click to expand...
I said stopped it. It. It. Not Grizzly. Stopped the Attack. The ATTACK is "IT" in my sentence. Stop nit-picking.

The .45 ACP Did STOP the attack; It.

And I do count on being able to stop a bear's attack with my .45 ACP. What else am I going to use? A stick?
 
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Aaron1124

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cscitney87 wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
cscitney87 wrote:
Second point.. HOLY CRAP A .45 ACP STOPPED IT!???!!!??
Click to expand...

His .45 didn't really "stop" the grizzly. Just kind of changed its mind.

Can't say that I'd want to count on being able to repeat that.

Yata hey
Click to expand...
I said stopped it. It. It. Not Grizzly. Stopped the Attack. The ATTACK is "IT" in my sentence. Stop nit-picking.

The .45 ACP Did STOP the attack; It.

And I do count on being able to stop a bear's attack with my .45 ACP. What else am I going to use? A stick?
Click to expand...
It worked in "The Edge"

edge.jpg
 
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cscitney87

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A sword? One could easily compare a bear's coat to a bullet proof vest. I know swords are sharp... but not sharp enough to cleanly slice through a bear. Plus you have to be super close for that to happen.. and bears have arms and claws...
 
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Aaron1124

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cscitney87 wrote:
A sword? One could easily compare a bear's coat to a bullet proof vest. I know swords are sharp... but not sharp enough to cleanly slice through a bear. Plus you have to be super close for that to happen.. and bears have arms and claws...
Click to expand...
Did you see the Katana weapons test on Deadliest Warrior? It cleaved through TWO pig carcasses, cutting them all clean in half with one swipe. The pigs were stacked on top of one another too. I think a lot of people underestimate the true power behind a good sword. Check out the video I posted above on the Claymore sword. And check out this video. Fast forward to 7:15 to get ready to see the Katana cleave through pig carcasses like a hot knife through butter. It's absolutely insane

http://www.spike.com/full-episode/viking-vs-samurai/31558
 
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Aaron1124

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cscitney87 wrote:
Comparing pigs to bears is like comparing apples to oranges.
Click to expand...
The video is just to show what it's capable of. I bet most people who are not familiar with swords and blades in general, would never expect it to be able to cleanly cleave through two pig carcasses like it did, or expect the claymore sword to be capable of cleanly taking off three human skulls with a single swipe.
 
A

Aaron1124

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The Natives use to kill bears by sharpening sticks, and tricking the bear into using it's body weight to land on the sharp edge of the stick.
 
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cscitney87

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well duh.. we survived this long and we're not the newest species on the block. We know how to take care of business- sticks, spears, or guns.

Natives were prepared with their weapon. Are you to be prepared with a sharpened long stick and/or sword? No.. we're on an Open Carry forum Aaron.. we'll be openly carrying our pistol.. not a sword or stick.

Go to http://www.swordsforum.com and http://www.icarryabigstick.org for that ;) :D

Anyway.. back on topic.. what ammo was that guy carrying? Also a great reason to carry an extra magazine or two.
 
A

Aaron1124

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cscitney87 wrote:
well duh.. we survived this long and we're not the newest species on the block. We know how to take care of business- sticks, spears, or guns.

Natives were prepared with their weapon. Are you to be prepared with a sharpened long stick and/or sword? No.. we're on an Open Carry forum Aaron.. we'll be openly carrying our pistol.. not a sword or stick.

Go to http://www.swordsforum.com and http://www.icarryabigstick.org for that ;) :D

Anyway.. back on topic.. what ammo was that guy carrying? Also a great reason to carry an extra magazine or two.
Click to expand...
Actually I am prepared. I'm an ancient weapons collector, but that's not the point. The point was that it is possible - very possible.
 
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