Calling all school zone maps!

[Nutczak]

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PVT, I disagree with you on the point you made that a person should carry a map for reference.

If you are going to be carrying out in the public, especially in residential neighborhoods, you NEED to know the GFSZ statutes front to back, and it wouldn't hurt to carry it with you for reference.

Because the wording of the statute says "You most knowingly posess,[a firearm] or have reasonable cause to believe you are in a school zone"

They way I understand this, is that it makes actual ignorance of being in a school zone, a valid defense.

Hopefully JRM can cast his opinion on this, but I think that by having a map in your posession, there is no possible way you can say "I was not aware I was in a school zone"

 

[Nutczak]

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Oops, Douletap! Funky site today.
I reposted when I got an error message

 

[pvtschultz]

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JRM,

The WI school zone includes the grounds of a school (the school and the land upon which the school is built) and 1000' beyond the grounds of the school not including private property.

The premises of a school would include land and buildings owned by the schoolbut does not have a school (admin buildings, recreational land, athletic fields, et al.).

State statute 948.605 makes it a felony to possess a firearm on school grounds. State statute 948.61 makes it a Class A misdomeaner to possess a dangerous weapon on the premises of a school. But within 948.605, the redefine the definition of a dangerous weapon to not include firearms. Therefore you can possess a firearm on school premises but not in a school zone. The Milwaukee PD map includes school premises as school zones, which they are not.

948.61(2)
(2) Any person who knowingly possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon on school premises is guilty of:

(a) A Class A misdemeanor.


948.61(1)
(a) "Dangerous weapon" has the meaning specified in s. 939.22 (10), except "dangerous weapon" does not include any firearm and does include any BB or pellet-firing gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any starter pistol.

(c) "School premises" means any school building, grounds, recreation area or athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated for school administration.

939.22(10)
(10) "Dangerous weapon" means any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded; any device designed as a weapon and capable of producing death or great bodily harm; any ligature or other instrumentality used on the throat, neck, nose, or mouth of another person to impede, partially or completely, breathing or circulation of blood; any electric weapon, as defined in s. 941.295 (4); or any other device or instrumentality which, in the manner it is used or intended to be used, is calculated or likely to produce death or great bodily harm.

948.605 Gun-free school zones.

948.605(2)(a)
(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone is guilty of a Class I felony.

948.605(1)(b)
(b) "School" has the meaning given in s. 948.61 (1) (b).

948.61 (1) (b)
(b) "School" means a public, parochial or private school which provides an educational program for one or more grades between grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school or high school.

948.605(1)(c)
(c) "School zone" means any of the following:

948.605(1)(c)1.
1. In or on the grounds of a school.

948.605(1)(c)2.
2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.

 

[pvtschultz]

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Nutczak wrote:

PVT, I disagree with you on the point you made that a person should carry a map for reference.

If you are going to be carrying out in the public, especially in residential neighborhoods, you NEED to know the GFSZ statutes front to back, and it wouldn't hurt to carry it with you for reference.

Because the wording of the statute says "You most knowingly posess,[a firearm] or have reasonable cause to believe you are in a school zone"

They way I understand this, is that it makes actual ignorance of being in a school zone, a valid defense.

Hopefully JRM can cast his opinion on this, but I think that by having a map in your posession, there is no possible way you can say "I was not aware I was in a school zone"

Which is why YOU MUST KNOW 948.605. I didn't say you should know where the school zone starts, you just need to know what 948.605 says and means. I wouldn't carry a map, I would carry the statutes (not that LEOs are going to care anyways).

 

[pvtschultz]

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So my conclusion is dependent upon how you interpret the grounds of a school and whether it is the same as the premises of a school.

 

[Shotgun]

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jrm wrote:

PVTschultz, I don't understand the conclusion you draw. How could it be that the school building (or premises) are not within 1,000 feet of the grounds?

I think the purpose of the two statutes is to make it a felony to have a gun in a school zone and to make it a misdemeanor to have a different type of weapon on school premises.

Jrm: The map and information provided by the Milwaukee PD wrongly borrows language from the definition of school premises to put 1000' zones around school premises and not just school grounds.

You ask, how can you have premises that are not within 1000' of grounds? Easy! As I pointed out on the Milwaukee map thread: if Milwaukee's interpretation was somehow correct, then here in Madison there would be a school zone surrounding the school district's giant kitchen facility on Pflaum Road, even though there is no school located anywhere near that facility. Also, the school district's downtown office would have a zone around it, even though there is no school located there, or probably within a mile of it. Those are school premises under the law because they are "used or operated for school administration" but they are not school grounds. Milwaukee's misinformation treats those facilities as if they were school buildings.

 

[J.Gleason]

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Appleton Area map is updated. Only 14 more schools to go! :monkey

 

[jrm]

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Shotgun wrote:

jrm wrote:

PVTschultz, I don't understand the conclusion you draw. How could it be that the school building (or premises) are not within 1,000 feet of the grounds?

I think the purpose of the two statutes is to make it a felony to have a gun in a school zone and to make it a misdemeanor to have a different type of weapon on school premises.

Jrm: The map and information provided by the Milwaukee PD wrongly borrows language from the definition of school premises to put 1000' zones around school premises and not just school grounds.

Thanks, that's the piece I was missing. And, I should not have included the parenthetical (or premises) in my question, as that made it confusing. I really was just focusing on the fact that a school building is on school grounds, because it appeared to me that Pvt. S. was trying to say that school buildings were on the "premises" but not on the "grounds."

If the complaint is, as I understand you to be saying now, that MKE PD includes property that is not a school zone (as defined in the statute) in its map, I guess I would have stated it as simply as that. Bringing in the whole discussion of premises doesn't matter. It's either in the school zone or it's not. If it's not, it doesn't matter that it would fit the definition of school premises or public building or airport, or tavern, or anything else. If it's not in a school zone, it's not in a school zone.

 

[pvtschultz]

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That's correct, JRM. As a typical engineer, I made my explaination much more difficult than it needed to be by introducing a lot of statutory language.

Basically, the Milwaukee PD has expanded the definition of "School Zone" to include "School Premises" in their map. This could lead to wrongful felonious charges against citizens by misrepresenting the statutes.

 

[jrm]

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pvtschultz wrote:

That's correct, JRM. As a typical engineer, I made my explaination much more difficult than it needed to be by introducing a lot of statutory language.

Basically, the Milwaukee PD has expanded the definition of "School Zone" to include "School Premises" in their map. This could lead to wrongful felonious charges against citizens by misrepresenting the statutes.

Got it.

 

[Statkowski]

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Calls for a letter to the elected representatives of Milwaukee asking them to provide a map of where it's legal and where it's not. Don't forget to boldly point out the error of the Milwaukee Police Department.

 

[J.Gleason]

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Which city should I do next? Milwaukee or Racine?

 

[pvtschultz]

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Milwaukee would be an interesting one to overlay on top of the MPD's map. But, there are a whole 'lot of schools to do!

 

[J.Gleason]

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According to what I find here:

http://mpsportal.milwaukee.k12.wi.us/portal/server.pt?open=512&objID=320&&PageID=39054&mode=2&in_hi_userid=2&cached=true

There are 198 public schools in Milwaukee.

That is not counting Parochial schools of which I count 30 according to:

http://www.archmil.org/education/ShowSchools.asp#elementary

And approximately 10 Lutheran schools.

(You got to be kidding me, no wonder there is no tax money left in Milwaukee, are all of these schools really necessary?)

The trick is to determine which are pre schools as these do not count.

Then we need to determine which are simply administrative buildings or used for online education which would not house students during normal business hours.

I may need the help of some of you in Milwaukee to determine these issues.

Look over the list above and give me some feed back so I can get started. If anyone wants to help let me know and I will explain how I am doing this so everything is done the same way.

 

[jrm]

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For my purposes, I'd rather see you spend your time on areas where there is no government-created map readily available. If you want to do MKE for your own uses, though, that's fine.

 

[J.Gleason]

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jrm wrote:

For my purposes, I'd rather see you spend your time on areas where there is no government-created map readily available. If you want to do MKE for your own uses, though, that's fine.

Thank God, There are alot of schools in Milwaukee!

 

[J.Gleason]

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Appleton, WI. Area School Zone Map is Complete

 

[J.Gleason]

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Next I think will be Racine.

 

[gunguy2009]

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I am Working on a Beloit map now. I am about half way through it. I will post it as soon as I complete and verifyit.

 

[J.Gleason]

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gunguy2009 wrote:

I am Working on a Beloit map now. I am about half way through it. I will post it as soon as I complete and verifyit.

Are you using Google earth? If you are you need to send your place marks to jrm so his map looks the same as yours.