Culpeper shooting

[NovaCop]

Dreamer,
I don't disagree with you that there are bad apples out there. What myself and other members are trying to portray is that the overall feeling on this forum is anti police. They don't like any police, not just the bad ones. It's evident in their prior post history. They already concluded this officer is guilty of cold blooded murder and lying. What I am saying is to hold off on assumptions and let facts come out and the investigation reveal itself.

 

[Dreamer]

Dreamer,
I don't disagree with you that there are bad apples out there. What myself and other members are trying to portray is that the overall feeling on this forum is anti police. They don't like any police, not just the bad ones. It's evident in their prior post history. They already concluded this officer is guilty of cold blooded murder and lying. What I am saying is to hold off on assumptions and let facts come out and the investigation reveal itself.

Perhaps this attitude comes from a long history of the Courts and LEOs treating law-abiding citizens--who ALSO have a presumption of innocence, the same way...

If the People weren't always being treated like criminals who were already guilty of something when they were exercising their rights (1A, 2A, 4A, 5A, etc), there wouldn't be such an adversarial attitude among the populace.

When LEAs train their officers that "everyone you meet is probably guilty of something, and every stop you make is a potential attack on your life", and they foster an adversarial, aggressive attitude, and encourage officers to find ways aroun the law to bully people into admitting things they didn't really do just so they can pad their arrest numbers, one can only assume that the People will begin to distrust--and even dislike Law Enforcement.

What ever happened to the concept of the Peace Officer? When did lies, deception, bullying and intimidation become acceptable behavior for agents of the government who are supposedly tasked with maintaining civil order? How does duplicity, bullying and "pain compliance" ever serve the greater good of a peaceful society?

I'll tell you how. When profit is brought into the equation.

Asset Forfeiture, privately owned prisons, and LE funding that is predicated on increased arrests have done more to undermine the good will of th people and positive relationships with LE than ANYTHING the media, the Courts, or the officers themselves may have done.

Money is a strong motivator, and as the "good book" says, lust after money is the root of all evil.

Take the money out of the equation, and cops will start acting like the Peace Officers they are supposed to be again.

As long as there is a big fat dollar sign hanging over every department, LEOs and LEAs will continue to treat the populace as the enemy, and as a giant teet to me milked dry.

This incident in Culpepper is a sad, sad statement on the state of affairs in this once-great nation. It may well be one of the "shots heard round the world" in the Second American Revolution...

LEAs need to decide which side they are on in the USA--are they on the side of the People, the Rule of Law and Justice, or are they on the side of their corporate puppet masters who seek to enslave, pillage and oppress the American People?

Which side are you on, boys, which side are you on?

 

[Dreamer]

Boards like this are the only place where these people can get together and throw a tantrum about "THE GESTAPO!" "THE POLICE STATE!"

Actually some of us are brave enough to engage the system face-to-face.

I, for instance, will be travelling to Annapolis MD today to call to task the Maryland State Police in their 3-year pogram of lies, duplicity and fabrication of testimony regarding Concealed Carry bills before the MD General Assembly.

And I'll be doing it as a matter of Record before the House Judiciary Committee.

I for one, am sick of this "holier than thou" attitude among LEAs and will no longer stand for it. I'm exercizing my 1A rights, and calling them out at every available opportunity, in public, and ON THE RECORD.

You, meanwhile, can hide behind your avatar, and your badge, and the color of law, and continue to foster an elitist, "exempt from the Rule of Law" attitude about your fellow mercenaries for the Ruling Oligarchy.

We know who you work for.

The real question is, do YOU?

 

[sawah]

Dreamer,
I don't disagree with you that there are bad apples out there. What myself and other members are trying to portray is that the overall feeling on this forum is anti police. They don't like any police, not just the bad ones. It's evident in their prior post history. They already concluded this officer is guilty of cold blooded murder and lying. What I am saying is to hold off on assumptions and let facts come out and the investigation reveal itself.

Why don't the people on this board like police, 'not just the bad ones'? Are you at all thoughtful on the issue?

There are two reasons:
1. We can't tell the good from the bad. In fact you guys play at 'good cop, bad cop'
2. The "good ones" sit by, knowingly, and let the "bad ones" get away with murder.

Then there's the fact that cops lie down with rats everyday and soon learn to be a rat. Then, before they know it they are also behaving like rats and they are treating normal civilians like the worst recidivist felons and predators. The 'good and the bad' take on an attitude (they say, just to survive), and before they even know it they are hard and cynical and feel they can take out their frustrations as they wish, using force. It's their way of reducing frustration by kicking the dog. Only in their case they actually get fed up and on the 100th dog call they walk in and shoot the dog.

Now, in fairness the them they are human and maybe under-educated and have IQs mandated at or below 100 and have a rotten job. But those are just excuses. I had a very rotten job in an emergency-based career and got paid women's level wages for 20 years, yet I did an A#1 top class job. I was a professional. Maybe cops need to revisit just what a professional is?

 

[Uber_Olafsun]

When police start acting like everyone is innocent until proven guilty and not like we are all felons when they come up to us. When cops realize that you report to us and not the other way around. When the good cops start to police their own so the bad are no longer with them. Go to YouTube and look at officers that are threatening and abusing citizens. Many times there is the one doing it and then there is there backup watching.

 

[Herr Heckler Koch]

I don't assume any burden of proof. Mrs. Cook is entitled to a presumption of innocence. [ ... ]

So is the police officer.

These comments made me wonder a bit on the application of the presumption of innocence, so I read that it is a burden on the state and the prosecution. Because of the association of a cop with the state, I wonder if the agent of the tyrant is, indeed, entitled to the presumption of innocence?

Yes, certainly when he steps from behind his shield of fealty to the tyrant and faces justice as a citizen he is equal. When behind the tyrant's skirts no.

 

[Uber_Olafsun]

We are electing people to represent us. So yes they do come back to us. The citizens just don't hope it all works once the election is over. There have been recalls there have be riots and many other forms of the citizens taking back power from the government. Citizens vote so hence they are the voice. The reps are supposed to be following the voice of the people. They are supposed to pass laws to that extent. The cops are supposed to follow those laws as well.

 

[Grapeshot]

The police don't report to you or me as individual citizens. The police report through a chain of command that is established by the law. The law is put into place by elected representatives who can muster enough of their colleagues to pass a law.

---snip---

Chain of command established by law - Cite please.

 

[Herr Heckler Koch]

More on presumption of innocence for the unlettered - from Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presu...e_presumption_of_innocence_in_modern_practice

 

[Grapeshot]

In law, a citation is a reference to a prior case decision that represents support for the proposition offered. I offered citations. The fact that you would rather have a link to a wikipedia article or a rambling blog written by a "moor" or "sovereign" doesn't change that fact.

Second, stating a categorical fact is not a "threat."

Having trouble keeping the players straight are you? I have never used the words "moor" or "sovereign" here nor indicated my thoughts on that issue as referenced.

How do you determine truth (fact) from prevarication? Do your occupational guidelines allow/permit/encourage lying? There might be some personal carry-over to that regard here - although I assure you such is not considered an honorable trait on OCDO and will hold you in low esteem.

For your benefit and edification, the definition of a "cite" on OCDO has been made quite clear and is not open to your personal interpretation. I encourage you to read the Forum Rules.

BTW - My statement (Also, threatening or implying threat of legal action against other posters for stating their opinions is decidedly bad form. If you feel that such is justified, do so on your own time please but not on this forum.) was not a suggestion, it was a warning to cease.

 

[Raven]

Having trouble keeping the players straight are you? I have never used the words "moor" or "sovereign" here nor indicated my thoughts on that issue as referenced.

How do you determine truth (fact) from prevarication? Do your occupational guidelines allow/permit/encourage lying? There might be some personal carry-over to that regard here - although I assure you such is not considered an honorable trait on OCDO and will hold you in low esteem.

For your benefit and edification, the definition of a "cite" on OCDO has been made quite clear and is not open to your personal interpretation. I encourage you to read the Forum Rules.

BTW - My statement (Also, threatening or implying threat of legal action against other posters for stating their opinions is decidedly bad form. If you feel that such is justified, do so on your own time please but not on this forum.) was not a suggestion, it was a warning to cease.

Uh huh. You posted it before:

"An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc."

I provided Court cases:

Moss v. Harwood, 102 Va. 386 (1904); Tronfeld v. Nationwide Mut. Ins. Co., 272 Va. 709 (2006); Fleming v. Moore, 221 Va. 884 (1981) See also, Kelley v. Tanoos, 840 N.E.2d 342 (Ind. Ct. App. 2005); Scott v. Cooper, 226 A.D.2d 360 (1996); Barrett v. Rosenthal, 40 Cal. 4th 33 (2006).

As for the rest of your rambling, I get it, you want an echo chamber. So what you want to do now is the very thing that you accuse the police of doing. Silence dissent. How ironic.

I've made my point. I don't need to try to reason with the unreasonable any further.

I'll leave you and your buddies to wallow in ignorance, while you pretend to be more intelligent than you are. I'll take my leave of you and your ilk.

As I mentioned to you in the PM, I'll scramble my password, delete my posts and bid you farewell.

 

[wylde007]

I'll leave you and your buddies to wallow in ignorance, while you pretend to be more intelligent than you are.

Still beats the intelligence you ACTUALLY possess.

I'll take my leave of you and your ilk.

We'll see.

As I mentioned to you in the PM, I'll scramble my password, delete my posts and bid you farewell.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out, mess'r (or madam, depending).

 

[peter nap]

(or madam, depending).

I'm betting Missy...(Sort of):uhoh:
Even Novacop doesn't stamp his little foot like that:lol:
A two day Hissy Fit has to be a record.

 

[Felix]

So does this mean Raven is gone? Guess he couldn't stand the heat, huh?

That's too bad, he was just arriving on Peter Nap's radar screen and the initial sparring held promise for some real bareknuck shots to follow. :lol:

 

[peter nap]

So does this mean Raven is gone? Guess he couldn't stand the heat, huh?

That's too bad, he was just arriving on Peter Nap's radar screen and the initial sparring held promise for some real bareknuck shots to follow. :lol:

If you only knew Felix:lol::lol:

BTW....I One of my sources said it was you going supersonic over my deer stand:lol::lol: (Just kidding)

 

[peter nap]

Still beats the intelligence you ACTUALLY possess.We'll see.Don't let the door hit you on the way out, mess'r (or madam, depending).

Wylde, ever notice how every cop we get here is more intelligent than anyone else...and has to tell everyone in a loud clear voice.

There he goes:lol:

L

uckily people like me (college degree and more, who could get a higher paying job elsewhere)

 

[mk4]

As for the rest of your rambling, I get it, you want an echo chamber. So what you want to do now is the very thing that you accuse the police of doing. Silence dissent. How ironic.

I've made my point. I don't need to try to reason with the unreasonable any further.

I'll leave you and your buddies to wallow in ignorance, while you pretend to be more intelligent than you are. I'll take my leave of you and your ilk.

As I mentioned to you in the PM, I'll scramble my password, delete my posts and bid you farewell.

if you can't run with the big dogs, stay up on the porch with the puppies.

buh bye...

 

[NovaCop]

Sawah,

It's a fact police lie with rats and become them? Fact? Cite please. Low IQ's and uneducated? Well maybe that's how it use to be. Departments have changed in the past decade or so. I know my own department rarely hires anyone with out a college degree. The job is not rotten as you put it, it's very rewarding. Luckily people like me (college degree and more, who could get a higher paying job elsewhere) are willing to do a job that's absolutely NECESSARY in our society. You're welcome.

 

[mk4]

...delete my posts and bid you farewell.

why delete your posts?
by chance did your 'agency' catch on to your antics and now you're trying to cover your tracks?

 

[thebigsd]

Sawah,

It's a fact police lie with rats and become them? Fact? Cite please. Low IQ's and uneducated? Well maybe that's how it use to be. Departments have changed in the past decade or so. I know my own department rarely hires anyone with out a college degree. The job is not rotten as you put it, it's very rewarding. Luckily people like me (college degree and more, who could get a higher paying job elsewhere) are willing to do a job that's absolutely NECESSARY in our society. You're welcome.

The police are necessary? That's clearly debatable. I highly doubt society would change much in the absence of police. There would still be law abiding citizens and there would still be criminals. Do I think we need to get rid of the police? No, but I think they need to be much more accountable to the people who are paying them.