Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

[Stanley]

Also, I would say that crime and other dishonest acts is what separates blacks from n****** (whites and white trash, etc). So, if I have reason to believe that a black is about to commit a crime/has committed a crime then I have reason to believe that he/she is a n******. That doesn't mean that I am against blacks as a whole or any individual because the color of their skin. So even if he DOES make a racial slur (I never said he didn't) doesn't mean it was racially motivated.

Never heard anyone try to justify racial slurs before...

Trying to separate someone's actions from their thoughts is silly and foolish. Anyone that is NOT racist and is committing a crime against someone won't be using racial slurs. Anyone that is racist and is committing a crime will use racist slurs.

Point in case, if you actually consider a group of black people "n******" then you are a racist. I'm not saying everyone doesn't do it or even that I don't do it.

I'm saying quit ******* on people and calling it rain. If you aren't a racist then you won't use racial slurs. The fact the you do shows that you have those tendencies.

Before you whine and cry about that, or even worse, say "race card," I completely agree with you. I routinely categorize people into groups labelled by racial slurs, though for different reasons than you. I don't SAY it but I do THINK it.

It's racist. Period. Own it...

 

[jbone]

How do you get that he considered Trey "(insert bigotry here)", unless you know something that I don't know. I heard the tapes were he supposedly says "f****** c**n" and I completely missed that as words. It sounded to me more like heavy breathing. It could have been anything. I don't think anyone here could say with 100% certainty that he said what people are saying he said (If I am listening to the same police tape everyone else is). I think media is just saying it is racially motivated and everyone is following along.

Also, I would say that crime and other dishonest acts is what separates blacks from n****** (whites and white trash, etc). So, if I have reason to believe that a black is about to commit a crime/has committed a crime then I have reason to believe that he/she is a n******. That doesn't mean that I am against blacks as a whole or any individual because the color of their skin. So even if he DOES make a racial slur (I never said he didn't) doesn't mean it was racially motivated.

Yes you are correct.

The masses have been so brainwashed and fired up by the idiots in the media, Sharpton, and the POTUS, who taint this death for agenda reasons, and political gain. That dumb Zimmerman wouldn't get a fair trial if the Judge and Jury were all members of the KKK and Latin Kings. Zimmerman is screwed.

With Black voters ditching the lying loser this is just the prefect event to exploit and bring the sheep back in to the herd, what does this socialist Democratic party stand-by; "Don't let a good crisis go to waste", well there's no crisis here, but it can be manufactured, and they have wasted no time in doing that.

New cracks have begun to show in President Obama’s support amongst African Americans, who have been his strongest supporters. Five months ago, 83 percent of African Americans held “strongly favorable” views of Obama, but in a new Washington Post-ABC news poll that number has dropped to 58 percent. That drop is similar to slipping support for Obama among all groups.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obamas-ratings-among-blacks-falls/2011/09/21/gIQAqzJdlK_story.html

 

[Gil223]

Original news report on the incident before the liberal main stream news media and Al Sharpton got hold of the story.

Please, don't get me started on Al Sharpton of Tawana Brawley fame. For those of us who can remember back 40 years, we know that if there's a photo op, a chance to get his name in front of the public, or an 'abused' black person involved, Sharpton, right or wrong, is there. I doubt that his involvement in this case would be of any credible help to the Martin family. Pax...

 

[marshaul]

There truly is no NEED to offer anything else.
That is MY point. You, OTOH, are assuming intent.


So, in spite of your multiple posts to the contrary, you do NOT know if he was pursuing or not.



Neither is there a compelling argument that he WAS 'in pursuit.'

Nonsense. As I've already demonstrated, intent to catch is not a necessary element of pursuit. It is merely an implied element in certain contexts. As I've said, clearly this is not one of those contexts.

I never claimed to know Zimmerman's intent. Nor did I say anything which would reasonably suggest that I believe I know it. Only by assuming in advance that I believe I know his intent can you read my arguments regarding "pursuit" as you have. In truth, I've never had even a suspicion as to his intent. I do not claim to know it, nor am I arguing based on what I suspect it to be.

I get the very strong feeling you think I'm taking a position on this issue which I haven't. You think that I think Zimmerman is guilty, correct? Hence all this utterly pointless disagreement.

For the record, not only have I reserved judgement, in this case I do not even have a hunch whether Zimmerman is guilty. Too many disputed facts.

 

[wrightme]

Nonsense. As I've already demonstrated, intent to catch is not a necessary element of pursuit. It is merely an implied element in certain contexts. As I've said, clearly this is not one of those contexts.

I never claimed to know Zimmerman's intent. Nor did I say anything which would reasonably suggest that I believe I know it. Only by assuming in advance that I believe I know his intent can you read my arguments regarding "pursuit" as you have. In truth, I've never had even a suspicion as to his intent. I do not claim to know it, nor am I arguing based on what I suspect it to be.

I get the very strong feeling you think I'm taking a position on this issue which I haven't. You think that I think Zimmerman is guilty, correct? Hence all this utterly pointless disagreement.

For the record, not only have I reserved judgement, in this case I do not even have a hunch whether Zimmerman is guilty. Too many disputed facts.

Hmm. Maybe you should listen to the first 911 call, where the kid begins to run, Zimmerman is asked whether he is pursuing[/i], and he responds in the affirmative.

Now, do pay attention to the difference between "recording of actual events" and "report".

Was that the actual wording used or not?

 

[marshaul]

Was that the actual wording used or not?

Yes it was. But you're forcing one meaning onto my words. My intended meaning is for me to decide, not you. Especially when I use a word within the confines of an accepted definition. Your interpretation is of course for you to decide, but I think I've made it pretty clear since that I don't claim to make any statements about his intent, nor does the recording offer any.

Notice, by the way, that I'm referring to a recording. Something you're free to go listen to. Obviously, I wouldn't claim that Zimmerman admitted to "intent to attack" when all he did was affirm that he was following the guy. Obviously, I wasn't trying to distort the record, but rather refer to it. My use of the word 'pursuit', therefore, can only be reasonably interpreted to be used in accordance with the definition which is synonymous with 'follow'.

If your prior use of the word 'pursuit' intended to imply 'intent to catch or attack' (or lack thereof), then I apologize for the misunderstanding, though it derives from your rigid adherence to one of many possible meanings of the word 'pursuit'.

I think it should be pretty clear that I intended to suggest nothing beyond those facts revealed by the recording, the reference to which started this whole argument.

I mean, really.

 

[Gil223]

Picky, picky, picky! Perhaps we should avoid the semantics arguments and try to understand and accept the intent of the posts. Congratulations to those of us who have a complete mastery of Latin... however, most people do not. Communications 101: Don't let the message get lost in the wording. Pax...

 

[since9]

Regardless of whether Zimmerman first approached the kid or not, if the kid's beating on him, bloodying up his face and the back of his head, Zimmerman had every right to defend himself with deadly force. This is probably why he has not been charged.

Now, if Zimmerman did approach the kid about something, it may have been unwise (depends on what the kid was doing), and against Neighborhood Watch "rules," but it was not illegal to do so. I've approached kids who're doing things they shouldn't have been doing, just as neighbors of mine approached me when I was doing something I shouldn't have been doing as a kid.

Although it wouldn't change the legality of Zimmerman's actions, I'm really interested in reading a transcript of the 911 tapes.

 

[rscottie]

Witness backs up Self-Defense Claim

The police have a witness, that is remaining anonymous for obvious reasons, that backs up what George Zimmerman claims.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

"ORLANDO - A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed."

 

[Deanimator]

Never heard anyone try to justify racial slurs before...

I have... but then I've heard people try to justify slavery, sex with children and a ton of other repugnant things.

 

[since9]

More info, better analysis

Hey, Mods - Let's please use those forum tools and MERGE these threads so we're not repeating ourselves five time over, ok? Thanks!

Onward...

Article: Obama gets personal over killing of black Florida teenager

What an immoral opportunist Obama must be! Here are some FACTS, directly from the police report, the media keeps either getting wrong or simply ignores:

1. The pictures repeatedly displayed by the media are when the kid was 14. Trayvon isn't a kid. He was 17 when he attacked Zimmerman and no longer looked "sweet and innocent" as the media keeps deceptively portraying.

2. Trayvon was on a 5-day suspension from school for ...you guessed it... fighting.

3. Trayvon was 6'2" and a high school football player, a stature and occupation even I would find physically intimidating.

4. According to the police report, Zimmerman's back was sopping wet from where he'd been on his back, in the grass, as Trayvon pummeled his face with blows from his fists. Zimmerman's nose was bloodied, as was the back of his head, from where Trayvon had repeatedly slammed struck him in the face and slammed his head into the ground.

5. Again, according to the police report, the eyewitness observed Trayvon sitting on top of Zimmerman, bludgeoning him repeatedly as Zimmerman screamed for help. The eyewitness headed inside to call 911, heard a gunshot, and looked out the window to see Trayvon lying on the ground, apparently dead.

Conclusions, based on BEHAVIOR, rather than racism, very misleading media portrayals, and family bias:

A. Whether Zimmerman initially approached Trayvon or not is immaterial.

B. What's material is Trayvon's BEHAVIOR, namely, his aggravated assault against Zimmerman immediately prior to the shooting, and Zimmerman's firing of his weapon thus ending the assault.

C. The police department hasn't pressed charges as this is clearly and undeniably (unless you're a racist idiot or member of the biased media) an act of justifiable homicide required as last resort means of self defense.

Let's examine what would have happened if Zimmerman has NOT shot Trayvon:

a. The athletic but violently out of control 17-year-old would have beaten Zimmerman into unconsciousness or even death.

b. If he'd only beaten Zimmerman into unconsciousness, Trayvon could very well have taken Zimmerman's gun, at which point we would now have an armed felon running around, or Trayvon could have shot Zimmerman at which point we would have had a muderering armed felon running around.

What DID NOT happen: Zimmerman did NOT chase Trayvon down and shoot him. If he had, he'd be behind bars and awaiting charges or at least a hearing.

Here's what else IS true: Obama is a reprehensible opportunist praying on the black and minority communities in the midst of this tragedy to engender support for reelection.

 

[Jack House]

Do you have a link to the police report?

One more thing to keep in mind, Zimmerman claims that he shot Trayvon while the boy was trying to grab his gun, which was holstered when Trayvon made the attempt.

 

[J_Oliver]

b. If he'd only beaten Zimmerman into unconsciousness, Trayvon could very well have taken Zimmerman's gun, at which point we would now have an armed felon running around, or Trayvon could have shot Zimmerman at which point we would have had a muderering armed felon running around.

So by your logic, if zimmerman attacked trayvon first, and trayvon had gotten a hold of zimmermans gun and shot him in self defense, trayvon would have been a murderer. But the situation in reverse was a good shoot?

What DID NOT happen: Zimmerman did NOT chase Trayvon down and shoot him. If he had, he'd be behind bars and awaiting charges or at least a hearing.

Ummm, that's kinda exactly what happened... he didn't chase him down and tickle him to death...

Would you instigate a confrontation and shoot someone cause they got the best of you trying to defend themselves?
Cause I can guarantee one thing, trayvon didn't chase zimmerman down to attack him!

1000 to 1 odds says Zimmerman wouldn't have followed if he didn't have that bit of steel courage on his side.


Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

 

[rscottie]

So by your logic, if zimmerman attacked trayvon first, and trayvon had gotten a hold of zimmermans gun and shot him in self defense, trayvon would have been a murderer. But the situation in reverse was a good shoot?



Ummm, that's kinda exactly what happened... he didn't chase him down and tickle him to death...

Would you instigate a confrontation and shoot someone cause they got the best of you trying to defend themselves?
Cause I can guarantee one thing, trayvon didn't chase zimmerman down to attack him!

1000 to 1 odds says Zimmerman wouldn't have followed if he didn't have that bit of steel courage on his side.


Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

"...that bit of steel courage on his side"

Seriously?

You sound like you have been reading too much of the anti's writings.

 

[Jack House]

So by your logic, if zimmerman attacked trayvon first, and trayvon had gotten a hold of zimmermans gun and shot him in self defense, trayvon would have been a murderer. But the situation in reverse was a good shoot?

I didn't see anywhere him stating that Zimmerman attack Trayvon.

 

[j4l]

So by your logic, if zimmerman attacked trayvon first, and trayvon had gotten a hold of zimmermans gun and shot him in self defense, trayvon would have been a murderer. But the situation in reverse was a good shoot?



Ummm, that's kinda exactly what happened... he didn't chase him down and tickle him to death...

Would you instigate a confrontation and shoot someone cause they got the best of you trying to defend themselves?
Cause I can guarantee one thing, trayvon didn't chase zimmerman down to attack him!

1000 to 1 odds says Zimmerman wouldn't have followed if he didn't have that bit of steel courage on his side.


Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

mmmm no, that seems to be exactly what DIDNT happen, if the actual witness is accurate.

ORLANDO - A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.

Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.

What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.

The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't have gone to jail.

Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.

And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.

 

[Stanley]

How exactly does seeing "the end" of the confrontation prove anything???

By this guys own admission he only saw the end...



How many times as a child have people been hit and then responded only to be seen by the teacher and end up in trouble despite being the one that defended oneself? I have...

 

[PrayingForWar]

Do you have a link to the police report?

One more thing to keep in mind, Zimmerman claims that he shot Trayvon while the boy was trying to grab his gun, which was holstered when Trayvon made the attempt.

The first thing Mr. Martin was guilty of is being black in an affluent area, and dressing like a black kid from a less affluent one. So we find out he got into a fight at school... meh. How many of us never did? Now a days they just suspend everyone involved of the slightest scuffle so I don't hold that as an indication of this kid's character. He was still being followed by some stranger, for reasons he may have not understood. We don't know exactly why he turned and attacked. Perhaps he felt threatened in a place he had every right to be in. That would justify his assault. He brought a fist too a gunfight.

Obviously the media has been successful at portraying this kid as a rosy cheeked preadolescent playing with matchbox cars on the sidewalk, and Zimmerman as the local recruiting official of the KKK and wanna be cop who chased down a small boy and killed him out of hatred. The race baiters have predictably gotten their sheep riled up and Mr. Zimmerman will be prosecuted by popular demand.

When the prosecution most likely fails, we can probably expect some riots.

I still think Mr Zimmerman shouldn't have followed this kid to the degree the kid KNEW he was being followed. Mr Zimmerman should have exercised a degree of stealth if he was actually trying to make sure this kid wasn't doing something illegal. It seems to me he made the conclusion Mr Martin was guilty of something and went out of his way to deal with it. It's my understanding NW persons are to observe and report, not follow and confront.

 

[Herr Heckler Koch]

When the prosecution most likely fails, we can probably expect some riots.

Prosecution on what charges, please. Charges have not even been recommended. As I understand it, the DA is taking the case to a grand jury for an indictment.

I was an HOA president armed. My chief of police Roddy Perry stopped me at a crack/meth cooker's house clean-up and told me to be "a good nosy neighbor."

 

[PrayingForWar]

Prosecution on what charges, please. Charges have not even been recommended. As I understand it, the DA is taking the case to a grand jury for an indictment.

I was an HOA president armed. My chief of police Roddy Perry stopped me at a crack/meth cooker's house clean-up and told me to be "a good nosy neighbor."

I'm sure Holder already has something cooked up if the state DA fails to invent something or the Grand Jury balks on an indictment. I'm not saying Mr Zimmerman is guilty of anything except prehaps... PERHAPS... poor judgement. I wasn't there. Maybe he did keep a safe distance until Mr. Martin abruptly turned, closed the gap and attacked without either man saying a word.

I just think it's unfortunate this kid is now dead.

What makes me the sickest is the exploitation on display by the fascists who keep black people on the dependency plantation, have zero solutions to the problem of black kids killing each other, selling dope, having more children and failing to achieve successful independence at the same rate all the other minorities have been doing.

Then again I'm the racist for pointing it out.