Former Marine killed in botched SWAT raid

[Citizen]

Here is some commentary some folks might find interesting.

The author, Radley Balko, has followed police SWAT raids for several years now. Formerly of Cato Institute, he went to work for Reason, and after Huffington Post was sold, went to work there. The piece linked below is his first article at HuffPo. Here are a couple points he makes:


...The problem with that explanation is that the search warrants and affidavits weren't sealed until four days after the raids were executed, right at about the time the troubling questions about Jose Guerena's death began to make national headlines...

...There are a number of problems here, beginning with the [police claim that they used] lights, the sirens, and the knocking. If these warrants were, as Storie claims, for suspected dangerous, well-armed members of a home invasion ring, why would they give a violent suspect such ample warning that they're coming? Why wouldn't the police have sought and obtained a no-knock warrant? This is precisely the scenario for which no-knock entry is warranted -- to apprehend suspected dangerous people who may present an immediate threat to police and the public.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html


Also, Balko has put up more about this incident on his personal blog today:

http://www.theagitator.com/

One of the news station videos linked at Balko's personal blog (agitator) reports that police gun fire went into other homes and police quickly broke into one of those homes to search for injured needing medical attention. Contrast this with reports that SWAT held off medical assistance for Guerena for almost an hour until he died.

ETA: One of the videos linked at Agitator shows the police did run the siren a few moments after or as they pulled up. Its an officer helmet cam viewed from an SUV in (Guerena's driveway?). The shooting starts moments after police break the door and enter.

 

[Guido]

In my opinion SWAT Teams are used way to frequently in raids and I feel that rather than make everyone safer when they are used, they actually increase the danger to all involved.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

Not all the raids listed on this site are done by SWAT Teams but a large portion of them are.

Personally I can see the need for a SWAT Team at times but not to the extent they are used today.

 

[sharkey]

I'm not going to watch this video myself so I don't know what it shows but here you go.

[video=youtube;XP0f00_JMak]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP0f00_JMak&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[eye95]

A neighbor who heard the shooting corroborates the wife's account, "The only sirens I heard out here were like maybe 20-30 minutes into the entire ordeal," said David Watson.

That claim has now been proven false.

 

[Dreamer]

I would trust ANYTHING that Radley Balko said on a story like this a million times more than anything coming out of the mouth of ANY LEA "spokesperson" or LE union lawyer...

Balko is a true Patriot, in every sense of the word. He is staunchly pro-1A and an unrelenting defender of the 4A.

He is an excellent researcher, and a tremendously resourceful investigative journalist. He doesn't sugar coat his reporting, or try to make complicated situations "black ad white" for political or ideological reasons.

Truth will out.

Meanwhile, the story from Pima County PD has changed, like what, 5 times now?

Just sayin'...

 

[Dreamer]

CNN - Sheriff's department just said the Marine made eye contact with somebody in the Sheriff's department, but did not surrender so they shot him.

How dare a lowly subject make EYE CONTACT with his masters...

Used to be, they just tied you up and whipped you for that...

 

[Citizen]

That claim has now been proven false.

It only proves that they didn't notice it or forgot it in the excitement after the shooting.

What is the point of 8 seconds of siren? Were I to hear 8 seconds of siren, I'd go back to sleep and assign it the same importance as every other siren I hear on the road in front of my residence. The siren stops, I assume whatever cop or ambulance or what-have-you has moved on.

Now that I think about it, the earlier police report made it sound like the cavalry arrived lights and sirens, rather than a short siren sounding. As for flashing lights, yeah right, like anybody is gonna notice that on the window blinds in the blazing sun mid-moring.

I wonder if this short-siren tactic is in the same category as shouting "stop resisting" for every arrest--to create an impression and an arguable point?

Anybody got access to legal advices to SWAT?

 

[Dreamer]

SWAT & ERT/SRT's were simply created to circumvent the Posse Comitatus Act .....

Actually, no...

SWAT was created in 1986 by then Inspector Daryl Gates of the LAPD, to be used as a "shock and awe" branch of the LAPD to intimidate the blacks and hispanics from bringing the unrest of the ghettos into the national spotlight.

Originally, the acronym stood for "Special Weapons Attack Teams".

Words have meaning folks, and I think Mr. Gates has a proven track record with his feelings about the "Rule of Law", and how he feels about minorities...



Personally I think the SWAT in Canada is a much better expenditure of money.

Sex Workers' Alliance of Toronto

With THAT version of SWAT, you STILL have to pay an inordinate amount of money for the services and still you run a VERY high probability of getting completely F@#ked, but at least you always end up with a "happy ending"...

 

[KBCraig]

A neighbor who heard the shooting corroborates the wife's account, "The only sirens I heard out here were like maybe 20-30 minutes into the entire ordeal," said David Watson.

That claim has now been proven false.

Really? How has someone proven that he heard the 8 seconds of siren in the driveway?

What has been absolutely proven false by the video, was the claim that police loudly banged on the door and yelled for 45 seconds. That was a total falsehood.

 

[KBCraig]

I'm not going to watch this video myself so I don't know what it shows but here you go.

There's nothing graphic there to worry about.

Maddening, infuriating, enraging, yes. But not graphic.

 

[zack991]

there's nothing graphic there to worry about.

Maddening, infuriating, enraging, yes. But not graphic.

this. SWAT went into this looking for a firefight and if they weren't then they have way to many officers with itchy trigger fingers.

 

[SFCRetired]

I have yet to be convinced of the necessity of a dedicated and separate SWAT organization. It should be more than sufficient to have a group of officers trained in those tactics and, on a rotating basis, be on call for situations where those weapons and tactics might be required. Execution of a low-risk search warrant is not such a situation.

I do not see the need for armored personnel carriers, armored panel vans used as "command centers", or for weaponry heavier than a M16/M4 (except for one or two dedicated sniper weapons and those should not be .50BMG caliber weapons).

zack991 said it best about those officers going in with itchy trigger fingers. I believe that to be the case in far too many SWAT raid scenarios.

It is way past time to reign some of these excesses in. I'm not saying completely do away with the capability, just the full-time assignment to such duties. After all, if the Guard and Reserves can, and do, maintain their combat readiness with one weekend a month and two weeks in the summer, why can't the SWAT officers?

It is also my honest opinion that these "no-knock" or "knock once and kick the door down" raids should, for the most part be illegal.

If SWAT had not been sent and if they had not broken down this Marine's door, I do believe he would still be alive. Their conduct, from everything I have read and seen, is beyond disgraceful.

Just one old man's opinion.

 

[AmbushBug]

SWAT was created in 1986 by then Inspector Daryl Gates of the LAPD, to be used as a "shock and awe" branch of the LAPD to intimidate the blacks and hispanics from bringing the unrest of the ghettos into the national spotlight.

When?

Ok, ok - wiki says 1968 so you just transposed some numbers. Wiki does not agree with you on the commentary regarding blacks and hispanics, however.

We got a somewhat cool tv series out of it too http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072560/combined. I don't think there was a TV show for Canadian SWAT. Unless it was on late-night Cinemax.

 

[We-the-People]

I'm not going to watch this video myself so I don't know what it shows but here you go.

[video=youtube;XP0f00_JMak]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP0f00_JMak&feature=player_embedded[/video]

The video showed the siren blasting and then an armed invasion team banging on the door for a maximum of 16 seconds (counted in my head) before breaking down the door and almost immediately firing a barrage of rounds through the entry way.

Now, considering that this was NOT a "no knock" warrant, 16 seconds is NOT sufficient time for the occupant to get to the door and open it. In fact, it's MAYBE just enough time for the occupant to start walking towards the door (were he already awake) and be totally surprised and in fear of his life when the door comes breaking down in front of him....at which time he is likely to flee (or if armed perhaps react in self defense)....can you say "absolutely set up to create a VERY DANGEROUIS situation" by the very means and tactics employed by those who are supposedly employed to protect us?

We're someone to come to my home and bang on the door, yelling and screaming, it would definitely take me more than 16 seconds to open the door and I'm going to attempt to communicate with those OUTSIDE MY HOME with a STANDARD SEARCH WARRANT. That attempt to communicate is going to fail in a situation such as presented in the video because all of those military (they may be paid by local government but there is no doubt that they are SOLDIERS in such situations) personnel are amped up, yelling, banging, and generally highly focused on entry. They will NOT hear me.

Anyone who has ever participated in combat sports should easilly remember...you're 2 feet from the edge of the mat, the coach is screaming the move you need to conquer the opponent, and you NEVER hear him, or the crowd, or anything else except yourself and your opponent. Tunnel vision/hearing/etc.

Yeah, that's how I want my police department to treat a STANDARD SEARCH WARRANT.

How about we just knock and when the occupant comes to the door say "Sir, please open the door, we have a search warrrant for the premesis". The police will say "but they might destroy evidence", I say too bad, that's a small price to pay to prevent such heinous, unconstitutional attrocities from being perpetrated against the citizens of this country.

Here's what I see as the root of this problem. There have been far too many television shows portraying the police crashing into homes and securing bad guys that were REALLY bad. That has caused Americans to subconciously accept such intrusions as the "norm" rather than the exception. The police have, intentionally or not, escalated their tactics to take advantage of the apathy of the citizenry (after all it won't ever happen to me).

I'm sorry but "no knock" warrants are for bad guys that are threats and a judge has agreed. STANDARD warrants do NOT, or at least they SHOULD NOT, justify kicking down doors mere seconds after arrival.

A far more acceptable method for such situations would be:
1) arrive and contain the area
2) contact the residence PEACEFULLY
3) Present the warrant
4) execute the warrant

ONLY when the occupants refuse to comply with the peaceful attempt to execute the warrant should more serious measures be undertaken and THOSE should be much less militaristic and far more "secure the scene and negotiate".

There are those that will say "that puts cops at risk", to which I reply "they took the job knowing the risks". I am not advocating placing police into positions where they will get injured but they are, by the nature of their employment, required in my opinion to accept a higher level of risk.

It is no different from the "rules of engagement" that our MILITARY troops in Afghanistan and Iraq operate under. They are required to accept a higher level of risk in order to help prevent unnecessary casualties.

I expect NO LESS from our own civil police forces when taking action upon citizens of this country!!!!!!

 

[KBCraig]

Something about the audio portion of that video has been bothering me, and the lightbulb just popped on.

The siren sounds extremely loud and clear, while everything else is muffled. If the officers were actually shouting, they weren't shouting as loud as the four knocks on the door (which can barely be heard over the music, which seems to be playing very softly). The gunfire is distinct, but also isn't as loud as the siren.

So... either that siren noise was added after the fact, or it was actually only played inside the vehicle, where the helmet cam was located.

And of course, where is the footage from the other helmet cams? The only camera was worn by someone who didn't go on the raid? I doubt that.

 

[marshaul]

We got a somewhat cool tv series out of it too

I really don't like apologist TV.

Which means that 95% of cop shows are out.

 

[Citizen]

Something about the audio portion of that video has been bothering me, and the lightbulb just popped on...

I don't know if the audio track has been "engineered", but I think you have a point about the relative volume of the announcement by the cops at the door and the door knocking.

Regarding the helmet cam, don't fail to understand that anything the police are releasing is only intended to portray the police in a positive manner, or the deceased in a negative manner. Read the column by Radley Balko linked earlier about the (police union?) lawyer who is handling the public relations for the department in regard to this incident. He highlights a number of points in this subject area.

 

[Grapeshot]

David Cordea examines and opines on this matter. I place a lot of faith in his analysis.

It would seem that the Marine did NOT fire on the LEOs are previously stated.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...lain-by-swat-team?CID=examiner_alerts_article

 

[Elkad]

8 seconds of an odd siren that sounded like a car alarm to me.

 

[JoeGlock40]

Something about the audio portion of that video has been bothering me, and the lightbulb just popped on.

The siren sounds extremely loud and clear, while everything else is muffled. If the officers were actually shouting, they weren't shouting as loud as the four knocks on the door (which can barely be heard over the music, which seems to be playing very softly). The gunfire is distinct, but also isn't as loud as the siren.

So... either that siren noise was added after the fact, or it was actually only played inside the vehicle, where the helmet cam was located.

And of course, where is the footage from the other helmet cams? The only camera was worn by someone who didn't go on the raid? I doubt that.

a couple points here. the gunshots were pointed inside the house so theyll be muffled by the house. the guy wit the cam was at the truck where the siren was sounded and if u ever been right next to a police siren youd know they are very loud n pitched. cops were yellin towards the door and not toward the mic. hard knocks on a wood door will be louder than poeple yellin at a door. think about someone yellin and pounding on your door, which do u hear most

give the cops a lil leeway hear guys, our pima sheriffs arent corrupt aholes like cali or ny, the guy got shot cuz he pointed a gun at cops whether it was on safe or not. same thang you or i would do to someone if they pointed a "on safe" gun at us. pima has a crappy sheriff, Sheriff Dipsh!t.. i mean Dupnik, but ive never met a deputy thats a ***** to someone unless they actually deserve it when ive worked closely with them or had encounters with them