imported post
Sun May 16th:
J.Gleason wrote:
Until I see some information verified by an open records request, I am calling shenanigans on this.
Monday May 17th:
J.Gleason wrote:
I have yet to see a post of someone submitting an open records request as of yet so I am still calling shenanigans on this. if this is for real there should be a record. The police have to notify dispatch anytime they leave the squad.
Tuesday May 18th:
J.Gleason wrote:
Still waiting for someone to post the open records on this one.
Wednesday May 19th:
J.Gleason wrote:
Wednesday May 19th:
J.Gleason wrote:
I am saying it smells in here. Shenanigans, Shenanigans, Shenanigans.
Need a better answer? OK
Someone is full of BS here. Either it is you or the officers. Not trying to be disrespectful but here is how I see it.
You come into the forum and tell us of this incident and how you just allowed these officers to trample all over your rights for no good reason, yet you have not made any effort to take an hour out of your day and go down to the PD and ask for the open records. It was one supposed police call so it would more than likely be given to you within a day at the most. Where is the open records request? Where are the records of the call? The police response? What are the names of the officers? What is your name so one of us may submit an open records request?
Why haven't you done this on your own?
As far as the "supposed" police encounter, why didn't you exercise your rights?
You say you have been watching this forum and have just recently decided to post. If you have been watching the forum, then you should know how to respond when you have an encounter with the police. That does not include allowing an officer to reach into your pocket where they could very well leave behind an illegal substance that could cause you to spend some time in prison for being in possession of a firearm while being in possession of drugs or whatever else they felt like leaving behind in your pocket.
If you are not well versed in your rights, maybe you should hold off on carrying until you are. If you are uncomfortable with standing up to the police and enforcing those rights then maybe you should not carry until you are.
So far you have taken offense to any comment that may appear to suggest that something is amiss with your story. That seems to appear as though you have something to hide.
You clearly admit that you did not even ask the officers if you were being detained even on your own property. You clearly admit to allowing the officer to search your person without question or objection.
It just seems funny to me that all of these people that have just been watching the forum, now suddenly come out to post after the incident with Jesus Gonzalez. And all of these new posters have some story to tell about how the police said they were going to crack down on OCers. Yet you offer no proof that the incident actually took place.
If that was me I would have immediately went to the PD and submitted an ORR and got all of the information on the call. I would have then posted that information here for everyone to see.
Now if the incident actually did take place, then what are the officers names? Have you spoken with an attorney concerning your detainment? Because if they took your ID and ran your name you were being detained.
With all of your inaction in this incident, I have to question as to whether or not this actually took place or if this is nothing more than a story to try and deter people form OCing. Until I see records of the call I have to stand by this opinion. If I am wrong I apologize in advance. Sorry, I have grown very suspicious as of late, but with good reason.
Hey I am only stating what many here are thinking and don't have the balls to put in writing.
You asked, I told. Shenanigans!
Thursday May 20th:
J.Gleason wrote:
Wednesday May 19th:
J.Gleason wrote:
Oh for crying out loud I_K get over yourself. You sound like a bleeding heart liberal. "Don't let anyone bully you."
There are more and more people coming into this forum and making statements that Police are stopping them on the street and on their "OWN" property and harassing them because they are OCing and it is all happening now since Jesus was arrested.
Smells like fish to me. Now all of a sudden the police are coming onto peoples property and questioning them for what? What have they done that is illegal? What RAS do the police have to indict that there is a need for them to question someone who is working in their own yard because that person is carrying a firearm?
I think the next time I see a police officer I will just place my hands behind my head and drop down to my knees and cross my ankles so they can just frisk the hell out of me.
Get fecking real here. Let's be honest this hasn't only become an issue about our right to self protection it is a "Rights" issue as well and the fact is if you are an advocate for "Civil Rights" you certainly don't allow the police to just trample all over them now do you?
If I am working in my yard and the police come onto my property I will assume they may need my assistance. Once they start questioning me about me doing something that is "Pertfectly Legal" (I love that phrase) that is when I request that they remove themselves from my property. At that point they are trespassing. I do not answer any questions they have and if the police do not leave then I call the Sherriff's Department and have them removed.
I don't let them reach in my pockets or search my person because they have no RAS, Probable Cause, gut suspicions, medicaL need, or any other damn reason to do so.
I do not have to ID myself and at this point since the police are there for no legal reason I would not ID myself or allow them to obtain my ID either.
What they hell is the point of carrying a firearm for self defense if you damn near deficate in your drawers just because the police stop to talk to you when they have no cause? What do you think your going to do with that firearm if a criminal attacks you when you nearly poop yourself because the cops harass you?
I guess we will just have to wait and see if this incident even took place as from what I understand the WCI has filed an ORR.
As far as sitting behind my keyboard, that more discribes you then me. Sure I comeinto this forum when I have some free time. But throughout my entire day I am armed. I am not afraid to be armed and I am not afraid to stand my ground when unlawfully questioned by the police. My statements were not an attack they were the truth. there is a difference.
If this incident actually did take place and happened as the OP originally stated then so be it. But I for one wouldn't come into this forum and post in such a way that it would possibly deter others from exercising their rights simply because I chose to stand mute and let the police harass me.
At this point I don't think it would have mattered if I absolutley had agreed with the OP you simply always have to play the devil's advocate and have the opposite point of view on everything. Even when it is pointless.
Just like the see through case for example. Do you carry for self defense or do yu carry because you like the attention it brings? Because it seems to me that it is really important to you that everyone sees your firearm. And don't say it is for legal purposes that you want the see through case because that is horse crap. It is nothing more than for someone to notice you. If that is all you want is to be noticed then walk down the street in your underwear.
Thursday May 20th:
J.Gleason wrote:
Blah , Blah, Blah, everyone look at Interupter _Knight.
A partime advocate of open carry. He will stand up for your rights as he is handing his ID over to the cops and answering all questions.
The more I read from your posts the less credibility you have.
Thursday May 20
J.Gleason wrote:
Yeah OK Mr. I need to have a see through case so everyone can see how big my gun is. It is your credibility that is gone
Sunday May 23rd
J.Gleason wrote:
Still nothing on the open records?
Tuesday June 1
J.Gleason wrote:
And still nothing? Which leads me to believe that this never happened.
An open-records request was made by me on May 19th.
I followed that request up with a phone call to verify they had received it. They had.
The WI-DOJ has indicated that 10 - 14 days is a reasonable amount of time to respond to an open-records request.
Given the holiday weekend, and that 14 days would be tomorrow, I think its reasonable to wait til the end of the week before bugging them again.
I can't help but offer James that in the time it has taken you to pen all of your comments in this thread, including inquiring about the status of the open-records request and questioning the character of posters in this thread and jumping to conclusions, you could have driven down here to Milwaukee and made your open-records request in person.
Anyone can make an open-records request. Its not difficult, its not time consuming.
http://wikifoia.pbworks.com/How+to+file+an+open+records+request+in+Wisconsin
http://www.journalism.wisc.edu/~drechsel/j559/readings/openrec.html
http://www.doj.state.wi.us/AWP/2007OMCG-PRO/2007_OML_Compliance_Guide.pdf
As I've said before in a previous thread, this board can be a tremendous resource. Justified or not, it doesn't serve the cause to speculate and berate fellow posters. Even if you win the argument, you may drive away dozens of lurkers who have come here for information.
WCI sends a link to this forum to every new member in their welcome letter.
With 100 new members on average per month, please consider whether taking pot-shots at fellow posters is SO important that its worth driving away new members who come here.
I've had 2 or 3 new members (which is a small percentage but worth noting considering many probably just say nothing) email me after receiving the welcome letter that this forum if full of more bickering and keyboard-attack's than it is information. It doesn't have to be that way, and we can re-focus the forum on INFORMATION rather than attacks immediately.
PLEASE put your ego's aside and recognize that WHAT WISCONSIN REALLY NEEDS is more people law-fully respectfully exercising their right to open-carry. Without that, our movement will fail to grow and gather the support it needs. There is no better online forum to discuss open-carry in Wisconsin than this one. Please let this forum be about information and not about keyboard-attacks so that new WCI members who come here for information to learn to exercise their rights will stick around and become part of the movement as well.
