Getting pulled over while armed in Fairfax County.

[LEO 229]

imported post

Neplusultra wrote:

I was following this thread but apparently two lawyers took it over and generated so much verbiage I was unable to keep up. Is there anyone here who could summarize for me???

I am sorry that some want to get bent out of shape over a few words and not accept the implied meaning. I was posed with several followup questions/posts that had to be addressed. I think the worst is now over. :lol:

In Virginia you are not required to tell the police you are packing a heater unlike many other states that have a law.

You decide if you want to do it to be nice. It is completely up to you. You have to also be aware of the possibly of being disarmed or worse... getting arrested on some bogus charge.

You are protected by the 4th amendment however, while in a car the courts have ruled there is less of an expectation of privacy. There are many situations that can cause you and your car to be legally searched even if you do not consent.

So maybe before a search is about to occur you may want to make it known you are armed so the cop does not freak out when he grabs your glock!!

 

[LEO 229]

imported post

longwatch wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

In my professional opinion... tell the officer you are armed. Your honesty will be appreciated by most good cops. Play the odds. What is the worst that can happen? You get a ticket??!! :lol:

You could get dragged down and put in front of the magistrate, due to an officers ignorance like what happened last year.

Yes, that was a "blunder" if I ever saw one. (Thanks Sheriff)

However, I was referring to the point of either you get a ticket or a warning. The worst would be a ticket you had coming anyway.

The true worst thing that could happen would actually be the cop draws down and accidentally shoots you. But I am more optimistic than that.

To be honest, I knew that post would generate a response such as yours. I just wanted to see who would do it and what they would say.

Thanks for following through!! :lol:

 

[Grapeshot]

imported post

Wwwwh! I was running out of popcorn! :lol:

Yata hey

 

[Citizen]

imported post

Neplusultra wrote:

I was following this thread but apparently two lawyers took it over and generated so much verbiage I was unable to keep up. Is there anyone here who could summarize for me???

Oh, I suspect Verbiage229 wants that to happen.

He's alreadyadmitted he knew what I was trying to say.

He was deliberately obsfuscating.

 

[Citizen]

imported post

Citizen wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

SNIP The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution gives individuals the right to refuse to answer any questions or make any statements, when to do so would help establish that the person committed a crime or is connected to any criminal activity. This right is also known as the Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination, which is invoked when someone is said to "plead the Fifth".

Are you committing a crime when you CC or OC when you are doing so legally?

I do not think so.

Pleading the 5th is in regards to answering "questions" about your involvement in some crime.

In this instance YOU are reporting that you are armed. So it is completely optional and hopefully not a crime.

Obviously, if you are concealing a gun and do not have a valid CC permit you may want to keep your mouth shut. :lol:

If you are asked if you are illegally concealing a gun and do not have a valid CC permit... you may then want to plead the 5th. :lol:

The above is aslanted, and perhaps prejudiced,view of the 5th Amendment, fellas.

The 4th and 5th Amendment were written specifically to protect innocent people. People who are doing nothing. People with nothing to hide.

For a good explanation of this, view the video linked below. I attest that in the video you will hear a law professor tell you to not talk to police, with 8 reasons given and explained. He will quote a US Supreme Court justice supporting not talking to police. And a police detective will step to the podium after the professor and say, (paraphrase) "Everything he said is true. It was right. And correct."

Video: http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/



Also,

Too many, even those who should be better advised, view this privilege as a shelter for wrongdoers. They too readily assume that those who invoke it are either guilty of crime or commit perjury in claiming the privilege.[suP] [n2][/suP] Such a view does scant honor to the patriots who sponsored the Bill of Rights as a condition to acceptance of the Constitution by the ratifying States.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0350_0422_ZO.html



The privilege against self-incrimination serves as a protection to the innocent, as well as to the guilty, and we have been admonished that it should be given a liberal application. Hoffman v. United States, . . . 341 U.S. 479,



To the contrary, we have emphasized that one of the Fifth Amendment's "basic functions ... is to protect innocent men ... 'who otherwise might be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances.'" Grunewald v. United States, 353 U. S. 391, 421 (1957) (quoting Slochower v. Board of Higher Ed. of New York City, 350 U. S. 551, 557-558 (1956)) (emphasis in original). In Grunewald, we recognized that truthful responses of an innocent witness, as well as those of a wrongdoer, may provide the government with incriminating evidence from the speaker's own mouth. 353 U. S., at 421-422. Ohio vs Reiner:

http://supreme.justia.com/us/532/17/case.html

(LEO229's deafening silence on this point speaks volumes.)



LEO229,

You are a self-avowed almost-twenty-year veteran police officer.

In your experience, do all officers in your immediate unit have the same view as you posted in the quote just above?

Patrol officers in thedepartment for which you work?

 

[ed]

imported post

All I CAN say is that I was pulled over in FxCo last year and the stop when fine.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=15162

Ed

 

[DHCruiser]

imported post

Citizen - You are coming across as rather rude and difficult. Leo's answered your questions and you appear to be trying to drag it down into an ugly fight. Now you are asking his knowledge of other police officer's knowledge. Give it a rest. He gave a good answer and his opinion.

Leo - Thank you for your answers in this thread.


I've thought it over quite a bit when these topics have come up in the past. Personally, I don't think I'll notify. I almost never get pulled over (now I'm screwed...knock on wood), so it may never be an issue anyway. If I am pulled over, I'll go do what I normally do. Turn on my recorder, keep my hands in plain view and be polite.

I have wondered what my response will be if an officer asks if I'm armed. I waver between answering or asking in return, "Was I pulled over to check whether I'm armed?" or maybe "I'd rather not discuss that topic. May I ask why I was pulled over?" Who knows what kind of response I'll get if I answer, hopefully a simple "please don't touch it." The question, I'm sure, will get me a ticket.

 

[ed]

imported post

DHCruiser wrote:

Citizen - You are coming across as rather rude and difficult. Leo's answered your questions and you appear to be trying to drag it down into an ugly fight. Now you are asking his knowledge of other police officer's knowledge. Give it a rest. He gave a good answer and his opinion.

Leo - Thank you for your answers in this thread.

+1

 

[LEO 229]

imported post

DHCruiser wrote:

Citizen - You are coming across as rather rude and difficult. Leo's answered your questions and you appear to be trying to drag it down into an ugly fight. Now you are asking his knowledge of other police officer's knowledge. Give it a rest. He gave a good answer and his opinion.

Leo - Thank you for your answers in this thread.


I've thought it over quite a bit when these topics have come up in the past. Personally, I don't think I'll notify. I almost never get pulled over (now I'm screwed...knock on wood), so it may never be an issue anyway. If I am pulled over, I'll go do what I normally do. Turn on my recorder, keep my hands in plain view and be polite.

I have wondered what my response will be if an officer asks if I'm armed. I waver between answering or asking in return, "Was I pulled over to check whether I'm armed?" or maybe "I'd rather not discuss that topic. May I ask why I was pulled over?" Who knows what kind of response I'll get if I answer, hopefully a simple "please don't touch it." The question, I'm sure, will get me a ticket.

It is a judgment call to report your armed status. Honestly, there really is no need to tell the officer. As I stated earlier every LEO should assume you are.

However, as I posted prior... It is often times appreciated when the person we stop does something out of the ordinary to show they are being helpful and understanding that the stop can be dangerous.

This can be anything. I have given warning tickets to people that decided to pull way off to the side of the road making it safer for me during the stop. So many people stop right on the edge of the road that it is extra special when they pull off farther. Or when they pull under a bridge while it is raining and I stay dry. I give them extra credit.

So my point was simply reporting could possibly get you some extra credit. Obviously, it can also end up going bad for you too. You have to decide at that moment.

I have been told, "I am armed officer." and I say "That's fine... keep it in the holster please."

Personally, I appreciate being told.

I do not know that I have ever asked for the sake of asking "Are you armed?" after seeing they have a CC permit.

 

[ed]

imported post

LEO 229 wrote:

I have been told, "I am armed officer." and I say "That's fine... keep it in the holster please."

Maybe advice for Citizen would be to yell out at the top of his voice "I HAVE A GUN!" and quickly grab it to show the officer that he wasnot lying!

 

[LEO 229]

imported post

 

[nova]

imported post

 

[darthmord]

imported post

I'll admit it. I laughed.

I recently had interactions with Norfolk PD with regards to responding to an alarm at my company's office. Before I took the officer inside, I informed him I was armed. He thanked me for letting him know and we proceeded to check the office.

The ones I've talked with thus far on and off duty appreciate knowing but have said they assume each person is armed with something.

 

[Sheriff]

imported post

longwatch wrote:

You could get dragged down and put in front of the magistrate, due to an officers ignorance like what happened last year.

I don't see a problem with that!

Cops have to pay for their mistakes.

 

[Sheriff]

imported post

LEO 229 wrote:

Yes, that was a "blunder" if I ever saw one. (Thanks Sheriff)

The arrest of Dan Moore was more than a "blunder". It was actually more than a "major blunder".

To be very accurate, it was a "total fuster cluck!"


LEO 229 wrote:

The true worst thing that could happen would actually be the cop draws down and accidentally shoots you. But I am more optimistic than that.

I wonder if the young kid in the BART murder was more optimistic than that? :banghead:

 

[Wolf_shadow]

imported post

DHCruiser wrote:

Citizen - You are coming across as rather rude and difficult. Leo's answered your questions and you appear to be trying to drag it down into an ugly fight. Now you are asking his knowledge of other police officer's knowledge. Give it a rest. He gave a good answer and his opinion.

Leo - Thank you for your answers in this thread.


I've thought it over quite a bit when these topics have come up in the past. Personally, I don't think I'll notify. I almost never get pulled over (now I'm screwed...knock on wood), so it may never be an issue anyway. If I am pulled over, I'll go do what I normally do. Turn on my recorder, keep my hands in plain view and be polite.

I have wondered what my response will be if an officer asks if I'm armed. I waver between answering or asking in return, "Was I pulled over to check whether I'm armed?" or maybe "I'd rather not discuss that topic. May I ask why I was pulled over?" Who knows what kind of response I'll get if I answer, hopefully a simple "please don't touch it." The question, I'm sure, will get me a ticket.

+1

 

[Citizen]

imported post

For the naysayers, here is where itstarted to getugly.

LEO 229 wrote:

Citizen wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

SNIP We always appreciate if you tell us you are armed. In Virginia it is optional...

Its a little more than optional, fellas.

Its more than just the fact that there is no law requiring you to declare that you are armed.

Its constitutionally protected by the 4th Amendment.

No court opinion of which I am aware has yet authorized a police officer to just up and automatically search you or your vehicle at the outset of a traffic stop just to find out whether you are armed when there was no reason to suspect the same.

Of course the government agents appreciate when we waive or ignore the rights put in place to restrict them. Of course they do.

And if there is no requirement (by law or otherwise) to tell then it is simply optional!! Enough said.

How did you make the jump from voluntarily tell a cop you are armed to the cop not having any "authorization" to search your car?

You are going off an a tangent while the rest of us are having a discussion about informing if you are armed or not.

Stop beating your war drums and trying to do battle. It is not necessary here. :lol:

 

[Citizen]

imported post

More for the naysayers:

Citizen wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

SNIP The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution gives individuals the right to refuse to answer any questions or make any statements, when to do so would help establish that the person committed a crime or is connected to any criminal activity.
Are you committing a crime when you CC or OC when you are doing so legally?

I do not think so.

The above is aslanted, and perhaps prejudiced,view of the 5th Amendment, fellas.

The 4th and 5th Amendment were written specifically to protect innocent people. People who are doing nothing. People with nothing to hide.

[evidence with case quotes and links followed]

 

[Citizen]

imported post

ed wrote:

All I CAN say is that I was pulled over in FxCo last year and the stop when fine.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=15162

Ed

Ed,

Don't forget thecitizen who was pulled over in 2007 and told by the LEO that he was in danger of unlawful lethal forceif hehad gottenout of the car just because the LEO saw his CHP on the computer return fromrunning thedrivers license.

And, don't forget thetwo stops of OCDO members by anLEOin the Springfield areain 07 or 08 that didn't go well.

And, don't forget (seenext post).

 

[Citizen]

imported post

Sheriff wrote:

longwatch wrote:

You could get dragged down and put in front of the magistrate, due to an officers ignorance like what happened last year.

I don't see a problem with that!

I think Longwatch was talking about the traffic stop and false arrest of the visitor from North Carolina who had a NC CCW, but was discovered to have (gasp) hollow-points.

If I recall, that citizen notified.