Getting pulled over while armed in Fairfax County.

[mlands]

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The thing is, you just never know what you are going to get if or when you are pulled over. You might get #1 an experienced, professional well-informed police officer who is a credit to the community, #2 an ignorant rookie, or #3 a cop who likes to make up laws because he thinks that LEOs are the only folks who should be carrying and you just pissed him off because you are armed.

Most people have seen all of these types of cops and you just hope you run into #1 and I think that most cops are this type. However I personally belong to ASDI as to have a lawyer on call 24/7 since there are type #2 and #3 out there. If there should be a "misunderstanding" or a rare lawful use of a firearm that would come into question I would quickly pull out my card and make a call. The incident at Tony's 7 made me a big believer in lawyer on demand. It sure beats facing mistreatment or LEO gun law ignorance. The average cop does not wish to try and match gun law knowledge with a lawyer when he just might be in the wrong or walking on very thin ice.

 

[ed]

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Citizen wrote:

Ed,

Don't forget thecitizen who was pulled over in 2007 and told by the LEO that he was in danger of unlawful lethal forceif hehad gottenout of the car just because the LEO saw his CHP on the computer return fromrunning thedrivers license.

And, don't forget thetwo stops of OCDO members by anLEOin the Springfield areain 07 or 08 that didn't go well.

And, don't forget (seenext post).

Citizen -

I don't foget. I think those are the "exception", not the rule. In another post I said I attended an award ceremony that was held at the sheriff's office.. I was the only citizen OC and had a big yellow visitor badge on... not a word was said. I think times are changing.. It takes time to educate. If one of my situations goes bad with a LEO I will try and make the best of it and learn as well as teach from the experience.


And I was just poking fun at you above in yelling I HAVE A GUN.

FInally.. in all of my stops.. not of the professional, well informed LEO's was OUR LEO229, but I look forward to the day.

Ed

 

[Citizen]

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DHCruiser wrote:

Citizen - You are coming across as rather rude and difficult. Leo's answered your questions and you appear to be trying to drag it down into an ugly fight. Now you are asking his knowledge of other police officer's knowledge. Give it a rest. He gave a good answer and his opinion.

Oh, I don't think so.

Go back and carefully re-read the exchange. He did answer some after numerous obfuscations, self-admitted by him.

As to asking his knowledge, I am not wrong for trying to find out how prevalent these slanted or limited views of rights are in his department.I have little doubt he knows the answers or has some knowledge. Police have an exclusive club where they watch out for each other.Someone wouldbe hard pressed to convince me they don'ttalk to each other. To say otherwise would be to ignoremuch of the information he's given about officers' preferences.

 

[virginiatuck]

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DHCruiser wrote:

I have wondered what my response will be if an officer asks if I'm armed. I waver between answering or asking in return, "Was I pulled over to check whether I'm armed?" or maybe "I'd rather not discuss that topic. May I ask why I was pulled over?" Who knows what kind of response I'll get if I answer, hopefully a simple "please don't touch it." The question, I'm sure, will get me a ticket.

IANAL: A question can be used against you in a court of law just as well. If you don't want to answer the questions, but want to make a statement in lieu of remaining silent, how about "On the advice of my attorney, I respecfully decline to answer any questions." Depending on the circumstance you could also add "[Furthermore,] I do not consent to any search of my person or property." By saying the former right at the outset of any questioning, you're not necessarily conveying to the officer that you don't want to answer a particular question or somehow answering the question inadvertently. While acceptable at the outset of the stop as well, you only need to say the latter if the officer begins to search, or states that he intends to search your person or property. Of course there are exceptions, but generally it is best to remain silent.

A police officer is still going to look, listen and smell from outside of the vehicle for evidence of criminal activity no matter whether you're absolutely silent or if you answer his questions.

If you get pulled over, just assume you're getting a ticket/summons and take it like a man; No whining, no excuses. If you're not guilty, have faith that you will be vindicated in court. If you're guilty, have faith that in the court you are innocent until proven guilty and the charge may be reduced or thrown out on a technicality. Trying to talk your way out of it with the officer on the spot might get you a warning instead of a ticket, but if it doesn't work it's likely to make your case impossible to defend in court. If you disagree, go sit in court some day and you'll see what I mean. The police ask questions in the field in order to get you to incriminate yourself more often than they ask questions to see if they should give you a warning.

Besides, only young, single women can "talk" their way out of a ticket, right?

 

[Citizen]

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virginiatuck wrote:

DHCruiser wrote:

SNIP I have wondered what my response will be if an officer asks if I'm armed. I waver between answering...

SNIP IANAL: A question can be used...

We've batted around on thisthe forum possible replies to the LEO question, "Any contraband or weapons in the car?"

The answer that sticks in my mind is, "Nothing illegal in this car, Officer."

 

[riverrat10k]

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Oh boy! Citizen vs. Leo 229! Need more popcorn!



Thought Leo had given up on this site.

 

[riverrat10k]

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Was pulled over in Feb. My fault, forgot to put the new stickers on the license plate. My empty Fobus owb was sitting on the passenger seat, my gun concealed in my coat pocket. Nothing was ever said about guns by either side.

One thing I like to do is control the situation as much as I can. I tend to speak first and ask "Why did you pull me over?" His response will affect how much and what information I will provide to him/her.

 

[wylde007]

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virginiatuck wrote:

If you get pulled over, just assume you're getting a ticket/summons

I always do. I think I've gotten one warning for all my years of politeness and cooperation.

Quotas.

There used to be a time (and I'm sure they still can, but don't) when an officer could give a driver a "positive" citation which could actually reduce driver points. Been a LONG, LONG TIME since I've heard of anyone receiving one.

virginiatuck wrote:

Besides, only young, single women can "talk" their way out of a ticket, right?

I don't think they have to be single. Or young. Just endowed and willing to utilize it.

 

[Sheriff]

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Citizen wrote:

....the LEO question, "Any contraband or weapons in the car?"

If you stop and think about it, isn't this just about the dumbest question in the entire world? If a person has nothing illegal in the car, they will answer NO. And if they do have something illegal, they will certainly answer with NO as well.

And contrary to public opinion, as fostered by TV shows like COPS, there are times when a driver honestly does not know there are firearms or drugs in the vehicle he/she is driving. But they are called a "liar" and criminally charged.

I had a rookie call me a "f***ing liar" to my face one evening. He knew it all, and he absolutely knew I was lying to him. Came home to bite him in the butt when he found out that he himself had now officially confirmed his status as a green behind the ears know it all "rookie" who in fact didn't know it all.

 

[ProShooter]

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Sheriff wrote:

Citizen wrote:

....the LEO question, "Any contraband or weapons in the car?"

If you stop and think about it, isn't this just about the dumbest question in the entire world?

Actually, if you know how to read people, this is one of the best questions to ask.

 

[Sheriff]

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ProShooter wrote:

Actually, if you know how to read people, this is one of the best questions to ask.

True. Butmost people, including cops, generally don't receive extensive training in the fine art of body language.

 

[ed]

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That's why the TSA did away with those dumba$$ security questions.

- Did you pack your bag yourself?
- Has your bag been with you the ENTIRE time since you packed it?

- - - -
I had a girlfriend visit NY. Hotel checkout time was 11AM but her flight was not till after dinner time. The bellhop said he would gladly hold her bags at the bellstand for her and she could retrieve them when she returned to take the airport van that evening. She did that and went to the airport.

- Did you pack your bag yourself?
Yes mam, I did!

- Has your bag been with you the ENTIRE time since you packed it?
No.. I left it with the bellhop at the hotel for most of the day while I went shopping

Oh dear! If you say THAT, I have to have you re-screened and have a bunch of people go through your bag... and you "could" miss your flight... so I will ask you again... Has your bag been with you the entire time since you packed them?
uh.. yeah, I guess.

Great! Have a wonderful flight!

 

[Sheriff]

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ed wrote:

I had a girlfriend visit NY. Hotel checkout time was 11AM but her flight was not till after dinner time. The bellhop said he would gladly hold her bags at the bellstand for her and she could retrieve them when she returned to take the airport van that evening. She did that and went to the airport.

- Did you pack your bag yourself?
Yes mam, I did!

- Has your bag been with you the ENTIRE time since you packed it?
No.. I left it with the bellhop at the hotel for most of the day while I went shopping

Oh dear! If you say THAT, I have to have you re-screened and have a bunch of people go through your bag... and you "could" miss your flight... so I will ask you again... Has your bag been with you the entire time since you packed them?
uh.. yeah, I guess.

Great! Have a wonderful flight!

I can believe this conversation took place.

Have you seen the quality and demeanor of some of the TSA agents? It's almost as if Homeland Security (or whoever) drove up to unemployment offices nationwide with 50 passenger buses and took anybody and everybody they could find. The only requirement must have been the capability of dressing themselves in the morning without assistance.

 

[wylde007]

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Sheriff wrote:

It's almost as if Homeland Security (or whoever) drove up to unemployment offices nationwide with 50 passenger buses and took anybody and everybody they could find.

Dude, it was either that or hang vinyl siding. There just weren't any other options available that day!:lol:

 

[Carpetbagger]

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LEO 229 wrote:

I have NO CLUE why you were asked out of the vehicle. If it far safer for you to stay in your vehicle.

Many years ago, I was stopped for speeding outside of Raleigh, NC (IIRC, it was a state trooper). I was unarmed. He actually had me come sit in the front passenger seat of his car while he wrote me a ticket. I thought that was very strange. Maybe he figured it was safer for him since he didn't have to walk back and forth to my car a second time.

 

[wylde007]

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If you've ever watched an episode of Destroyed In Seconds or World's Scariest Police Videos then you wouldn't want to spend a lot of time standing 6" from the edge of a travel lane either!

Those dashboard cams showing cars getting obliterated... I'll give it to the fellow who appreciates when we pull over a little further. I think I would, too.

I've worked on highway jobs. One alligator or two-by-four or piece of gravel gets slung just so and you're done. I've had rear-view mirrors ripped off, windows knocked out, sensitive survey instruments damaged... at highway speeds reaction time is less than a second, and that's if there's something to duck behind at all.

 

[Sheriff]

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Carpetbagger wrote:

(the trooper) actually had me come sit in the front passenger seat of his car while he wrote me a ticket.

Virginia troopers used to do this all the time.

Then the new rookieswho coined the phrases "officer safety", "better judged by 12 than carried by 6", and "I am going home at the end of my shift" came along. To satisfy them, everybody in law enforcement scrambled for a better way of doing everything because the new kids were absolutely scared to death when out on patrol by themselves.

Nowadays you have to park thecop car at an angle so the engine block offers some protection if Mr or Mrs Happy Driver shoots at you, you have to grab the trunk of the offender's car and make sure it's properly closed so Bozo The Clown can't jump out and shoot you with awater gun, and you have to approach the driver with your hands on your gun because all motorists are gun toting psychopaths until proven otherwise. (sarcasm )

 

[DrMark]

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Carpetbagger wrote:

Many years ago, I was stopped for speeding outside of Raleigh, NC (IIRC, it was a state trooper). I was unarmed. He actually had me come sit in the front passenger seat of his car while he wrote me a ticket. I thought that was very strange. Maybe he figured it was safer for him since he didn't have to walk back and forth to my car a second time.

Years back, when my bud was a local cop, I was doing a ride-around with him. He pulled a car over, and after calling in the plates, it came back that the owner had a suspended DL. My friend asked me to take the pump gun from the rack and sit in the back seat. He did a pat down of the guy, held on to his pocket knife, and had him sit in the passenger seat of the cop car while some research via dispatcher was done. It turns out the guy was not on a suspended DL any longer, his pocket knife was handed back to him, and he was sent on his way with a verbal warning for the burned out light that was the basis for the stop.

The part we found so funny was how nervous the guy looked, repeatedly glancing at the silent guy with the shotgun in the back seat. :uhoh:

 

[Doug Huffman]

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Sheriff wrote:

you have to grab the trunk of the offender's car and make sure it's properly closed so Bozo The Clown can't jump out and shoot you with awater gun,

I was taught that that was to leave a handprint affirmatively establishing the officer's presence at that car.

 

[Tusker]

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Let us take this a step further. Had a problem with a son in law that was a jerk and my daughter finally threw him out. He had no legal right to go any further than the sidewalk when returning my two grandsons from a visit. He knew I had a permit, and when he entered the property, being the front yard and attempted to push me aside and grab my daughter by the hair I simply bounced him off his van and told him it was time for him to leave. I was present at the request of my daughter because he had grown progressively more physical. Daughter called the local LEO and I went in the house. Of course when they arrived, the first thing he did was tell them I had a gun, but he couldn't describe it because he had no idea which one it was, and since I never pulled it all he could say was I had one. In the house they came, and of course ask me right away if I was armed. Yes I was, and already had my ID & permit out before they ever hit the door. Being a COLT Auto, the LEO had NO IDEA how to clear the weapon. I ask if he would like me to do so and he said yes. This ended with the gun being confiscated, although there were NO charges, of any kind. Two days later, they called and said I could come down and pick my gun up. I do believe my even keel voice may have kept a bad incident from being worse. I was not ask about my backup gun and never offered up that I had it. Question would be, did they have the right to take the gun when there were no charges, just so they could run it- you know they did that first thing. ?? No receipt was given, but I did tell the LEO there better be NO marks or damage to the gun or the Ivory grips. He carried it out like it was a live snake. My legal beagle told me later I did just the right thing. ?? Something else came out of this later but it was thrown out of court, but that is another story.