Guy at wrong house get's shot.

[PT111]

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SANDCREEK wrote:

Thiswas a needless accident caused by the deceased achieving a .26blood/alcohol level that could have manifested itself in the form of a DUI incident involvingdriving on the wrong side of the road head-on into an 18-wheeler or a mini-van full of kids.

Had that been the cause of death,this incident would be getting no attention. The unfortunate young man killed himself by his own irresponsible conduct. The homeowner involved will carry his pain for the rest of his life.

That having been said - I would prefer to fire a warning shot into my carpet - before shooting a person- but no one has a right to second guess the shooter. He did not have the luxury of all the information available after the fact. Armed home invasions by multiple attackers are relatively frequent in Colorado Springs, and this particular neighborhood is a heavy crime area.

Not sure about firing a warning shot into the carpet but the rest of it I go along with. In this case I can't find fault with the shooter for doing what he did. I think that the guy had plenty of warning and to break the glass in a door to reach in to unlock it is much more than just being shot through a closed door. This was a tragedy that should not have happened but I can't blame the homeowner here.

 

[Hawkflyer]

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I agree with most here that this is a tragedy. Not just for the young man who was shot but for the families involved.

But it is also Darwinism at work. If you are the kind of person who drinks to the point of not being able to recognize your own home, removal by some third party mechanism from the shallow end of the gene pool at some point is almost inevitable.

 

[jmelvin]

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I was in nearly the same situation about3 years ago while living in a decent apartment in Phoenix. I was awakenedearly on a Saturday morning by a loud thumping sound, so Igot up with my pistoland phone in hand and went to the windows to see what was up. When I realized thatnothing was outside down on the sidewalk I walked into my living room to find my doorbeing beat on by some young drunk thinking he was at his buddies place. I tried several times to tell him through the door thathe was at the wrong place, but he would have none of it and keptpounding.

At that point I went back into the bedroom and traded thepistol for my shotgun (which I could also use like a club if needed) and dialed 911, knowing that if I had to shoot this dude I wanted the police to know what was happening. I informed the operator what was going on and that I was also armed with a shotgun in case he got in. At some point during all of this one of my neighbors popped his head out and told the guy he was at the wrong place, but he still didn't leave and kept beating the door and yelling. It took the cops a bit to get there, but at one point the guy began turning the handle and slamming his body against the door to open it up. I yelled "Buddy you don't want to come through that door" and the operator told me not to stir anything up so I informed her that he was then trying to push in the door. After maybe 10-15 minutes on the phone with 911the guy finally walked downstairs (outside stairs) just as the cops arrived. They picked him up and asked me if the guy they got was the one who was bothering me, and I confirmed that it was.

I was so glad when he finally went away and they took custody of him. I was prepared to shoot him if he made it through that door, but I sure as hell didn't want to have to be given that option. In this case all of my talking through the door and the neighbor's intervention did nothing to deter this guy. His drunken stubborness could've been the most costly decision he ever made. Thank God my deadbolt held him back.

 

[Dustin]

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jmelvin wrote:

I was in nearly the same situation about3 years ago while living in a decent apartment in Phoenix. I was awakenedearly on a Saturday morning by a loud thumping sound, so Igot up with my pistoland phone in hand and went to the windows to see what was up. When I realized thatnothing was outside down on the sidewalk I walked into my living room to find my doorbeing beat on by some young drunk thinking he was at his buddies place. I tried several times to tell him through the door thathe was at the wrong place, but he would have none of it and keptpounding.

At that point I went back into the bedroom and traded thepistol for my shotgun (which I could also use like a club if needed) and dialed 911, knowing that if I had to shoot this dude I wanted the police to know what was happening. I informed the operator what was going on and that I was also armed with a shotgun in case he got in. At some point during all of this one of my neighbors popped his head out and told the guy he was at the wrong place, but he still didn't leave and kept beating the door and yelling. It took the cops a bit to get there, but at one point the guy began turning the handle and slamming his body against the door to open it up. I yelled "Buddy you don't want to come through that door" and the operator told me not to stir anything up so I informed her that he was then trying to push in the door. After maybe 10-15 minutes on the phone with 911the guy finally walked downstairs (outside stairs) just as the cops arrived. They picked him up and asked me if the guy they got was the one who was bothering me, and I confirmed that it was.

I was so glad when he finally went away and they took custody of him. I was prepared to shoot him if he made it through that door, but I sure as hell didn't want to have to be given that option. In this case all of my talking through the door and the neighbor's intervention did nothing to deter this guy. His drunken stubborness could've been the most costly decision he ever made. Thank God my deadbolt held him back.

That is what concerns me the most. When it comes to someone you POSITIVLEY KNOW is trying to harm you are your family, then Shoot or Don't shoot is easily defined.

When it comes to a drunk ? Young ? Stupid ? Man I can see where this could lead too big problems for both sides involved.

 

[protector84]

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Depending on my mood at the time I may not be so scared but instead incredibly pissed off. In such case, I may just go out the back door with a shotgun in my hands and then walk around to the front and tell the person to get the f*ck off of the property. If the person started to get combative (and you would have to be really drunk to argue with a shotgun) then I would basically beat the sh*t out of him and then apologize that his drunk a$$ tripped and "fell down." Drunks can be dangerous due to their loss of inhibitions but beyond a certain BAC they don't stand a chance in winning a fight as they are too poorly coordinated and reactions too slow.

Yes, it probably isn't good to go outside and confront a potential burgular, but I also have the right to stop someone from breaking down my door and windows as well even if they are just a drunk. On second thought now that I think more of this I probably would not "beat the person up" but instead just use my taser on him if he became combative. That would sober the person up real fast.

 

[MamaLiberty]

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SANDCREEK wrote:

That having been said - I would prefer to fire a warning shot into my carpet - before shooting a person- but no one has a right to second guess the shooter. He did not have the luxury of all the information available after the fact. Armed home invasions by multiple attackers are relatively frequent in Colorado Springs, and this particular neighborhood is a heavy crime area.

Warning shot - A shot not aimed at the attacker, used to frighten or dissuade them. This is seriously discouraged and will often be illegal. It places bystanders at increased risk from a stray bullet, and places YOU at much greater risk because it will give the attacker more time and greater opportunity to harm you. If your life is in immediate danger, you must shoot to stop the attack. If you have time and opportunity for a “warning shot,” you probably do not have solid justification to shoot at all.

 

[CrossFire]

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MamaLiberty wrote:

SANDCREEK wrote:

That having been said - I would prefer to fire a warning shot into my carpet - before shooting a person- but no one has a right to second guess the shooter. He did not have the luxury of all the information available after the fact. Armed home invasions by multiple attackers are relatively frequent in Colorado Springs, and this particular neighborhood is a heavy crime area.

Warning shot - A shot not aimed at the attacker, used to frighten or dissuade them. This is seriously discouraged and will often be illegal. It places bystanders at increased risk from a stray bullet, and places YOU at much greater risk because it will give the attacker more time and greater opportunity to harm you. If your life is in immediate danger, you must shoot to stop the attack. If you have time and opportunity for a “warning shot,” you probably do not have solid justification to shoot at all.

++1 MamaLiberty. I wonder how many more times that will need to be said.

 

[MamaLiberty]

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++1 MamaLiberty. I wonder how many more times that will need to be said.

As many times as it takes. Or until everyone stops watching TV, whichever comes first. Far too many people get their information from cop or western shows. DUMB

 

[sheepdog]

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Dustin, I can't see warning off someone who's broken into my home...arm inside and reaching for the lock...so that my family is safe for now....and then hear that he went down the street and broke in on my friends...and I could have stopped it at my door...common decency says you step up for the common good...not just considering yourself and screw the rest of the world....

It might be real good for you to put out the effort to look up and read La. laws...before you post what they say....considering you live there...I was a cop there for years and you don't know your own laws...I'll save you the look-up: http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78338

The tragedy was that he got so s...-faced drunk that he didn't know what he was doing....after he made that choice...any rapes, robberies, car wrecks, etc. that he was involved in....don't just go away because he was drunk....people have to take responsibility for their choices....

It might be easier for you to "understand" the defense mindset if it were your home or your sister's...you seem to be more concerned about the perpetrator than the victims....

 

[Tomahawk]

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Threads like this amaze me at some of the things people write on the internet.

 

[drjoker]

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I know many of you are in the "shoot first, ask questions later camp," but if I were then I'd be dead today. Here's my true story....

I was living in an apartment in Austin when at midnight, the sound of banging on my door woke me up. I asked, "Who is it?" No answer. I called 911. They told me that a squad car will be on the way, but 10 minutes later, still no police. I called again and they told me that a squad car should be arriving shortly. But, there is no police and the banging on the door happened on and off over the course of 10 minutes. This person even shone a flashlight through my miniblinds and started to bang on the windows.

Finally, enough is enough. I picked up my Glock 19 and put it in a paper sack. I did not want to scare the teenage neighbors' kids so I hid my gun in a paper sack. I opened the front door and saw...

A POLICE OFFICER!!!

It was a female police officer and she was obviously deaf as I must've asked her, "Who is it?" a thousand times but she did not answer! I said, "Let me put down my sandwich officer." I put down my gun (the "sandwich"). The officer explains to me that someone broke into my car and reported it to police.

Moral of the story.... Do not shoot anyone until you can see the whites of their eyes. If I was seen holding a gun, the cop would've shot me and I would not be telling you this story. Or, worse yet, I could've shot the cop and would be now telling an inmate in prison this story. Both of these are bad endings to the story. This was only a happy ending because I concealed my weapon from view in a paper bag and I did not shoot anybody until that person has been positively identified as a perp.

A cop once told me that if I want to warn perps and see the whites of their eyes before shooting during a break-in, I should have a high capacity flashlight handy to shine in their eyes so that the glare prevents them from seeing you. That way, if they fire the first shot, they'll likely miss as I'm also holding the flashlight at arm's lenght, away from my body. The flashlight will also help identify that person as a perp instead of a neighbor's nosy kid.

I also always put my gun in a paper sack whenever I answer the door or whenever I am in a "bad neighborhood". This will allow me to get a shot off through the paper bag before the perp can even fully draw his/her weapon. My gun is already pointed at the perp through the paper bag.

 

[sheepdog]

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Two excellent points...SEE what you're shooting...our victim did that...at night that means a light...and the advice about it being blinding is good....I keep rechargeable million CP lights scattered to grab...and to hold it away from yourself because it will be the place "they" shoot first is the way us old guys learned (also learned to shoot with one hand).......DON'T display your gun till you're ready to shoot...you lose the surprise benefit and may be in trouble for pointing it...depending on a lot of things....

It would have been best not to open the door...unless they broke it down, or smashed out a glass and reached for the lock...there would have been no need to shoot....and you could have waited till they communicated to you by phone that a cop was there at the door....it's always easy to think of all this.....AFTER it's happened and it's not the middle of the night

 

[Dustin]

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Some of you don't read to well at all.

If the BG ENTERED MY HOUSE ! There would be no question. He'd surely be shot.

But NOT until he enters. I would NOT shoot thru the window. For one, I don't have doors like this. I have a Screen door, and a solid Door. No windows to stick arms thru.

If I did, things might be different. Eitherway, As soon as he stuck his hand thru I would have also smashed it and his fingers first.



Sheepdog,

You can read RS 14:20 all you want. The truth is, that people have indeed been convicted of murder/manslaughter by shooting people OUTSIDE their homes. Now Breaking in like this, with broken glass inside the house. Might make a better case. MIGHT. Again my actions would have been different.



Tomahawk,

I'll take a gander and say b/c were not as smart as you. There's nothing wrong with TDG's. That's the way EVERYONE here learns.

Mamaliberty,

Same here, I don't do warning shots. If I were as close as this guy I would have done a warning STOMP on his hand as he stuck it thru the window. IMO, there is no use for warning shots. Humans know what guns are, they know what they do. This is all so easily seen when your overseas in Iraq or The Ghan. You don;t have to speak a lick of Arabic. If you point your M16, they'll listen. Any BG here in the states knows what a gun is and what it can do. If they dont care, then so be it.

 

[PT111]

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Dustin wrote:

Some of you don't read to well at all.

:banghead:It is not just this thread and not to try and single out any one person but I swear there are some post where I wonder if they even read the question. Sometimes I miss a a point that someone has made but dang, if someone asks what is the difference between a Glock 17 and a 19 then someone answers just get a Sig because all Glocks are junk. :what:I am not sure it is is the Internet, the media or just the general attitudes and education today but some are so focused on certain things that everything else is useless and this is not unique to this board or gun boards but seemingly to the Internet in general.

 

[Hawkflyer]

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Dustin wrote:

...SNIP

Humans know what guns are, they know what they do. This is all so easily seen when your overseas in Iraq or The Ghan. You don;t have to speak a lick of Arabic. If you point your M16, they'll listen. Any BG here in the states knows what a gun is and what it can do. If they dont care, then so be it.

While they may not actually know what a gun is, most dogs know they are dangerous. If you point a firearm at most dogs they will shrink away, so clearly they know there is something more powerful than they are.

But there is a presumption in all of this that the BG has actually seen the firearm. In the case of someone breaking in a door, they may be outside and not able to see the firearm.I think that is more the context that people were suggesting a warning shot.

I for one do not support the concept of warning shots under any circumstances. If you have the time for warning shots, you have the time to think of something better than shooting someone.

 

[Dustin]

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PT111 wrote:

Dustin wrote:

Some of you don't read to well at all.

:banghead:It is not just this thread and not to try and single out any one person but I swear there are some post where I wonder if they even read the question. Sometimes I miss a a point that someone has made but dang, if someone asks what is the difference between a Glock 17 and a 19 then someone answers just get a Sig because all Glocks are junk. :what:I am not sure it is is the Internet, the media or just the general attitudes and education today but some are so focused on certain things that everything else is useless and this is not unique to this board or gun boards but seemingly to the Internet in general.

If you really want to see this in action. Check out this link. The OP stated VERY clear that this was not a debate over which caliber was better, only whta the RECOIL was like when in a compact pistol. Yet folks derailed it with the caliber vs shot placement debate, and are still derailing it even AFTER the OP Stated LAST WEEK that he already made his purchase. Hawkflyer wrote:

SNIP...
I for one do not support the concept of warning shots under any circumstances. If you have the time for warning shots, you have the time to think of something better than shooting someone.

As Mamaliberty pointed out too, this is an Excellent Point.

 

[sheepdog]

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In the case above described, in Louisiana under RS14:20.2,3,and 4a, as well as reading HB89 of '06 and HB1097 of '06, the shooter would have been totally justified...so being "pretty sure"....isn't accurate advice...and your reference to what's happenedto people shooting people "outside" their homes has no bearing on the discussion...my point was and is...your criticism of the shooter is your opinion...written law justifies him completely...and when you state what the law says...you should be stating it correctly...we read EXACTLY what you wrote...and there is the issue...I don't think those who replied to your post have ignoredor avoided the question as much as have given opinions and replies that disagreed with what you might have done...to post "Your say?" and then berate the answerers seems rude to me....



p.s.---the guy...by breaking out the glass of a dwelling not his own, and reaching inside to unlock the door...WAS a criminal...what he was before he did that...noone there could have known...and shooting to STOP (not "to kill") was a proper and legal response...for a victim in La.....finding out that he was drunk and had never missed Sunday School doesn't change things...and "warning shots" are not provided for or required in the law in La.---and are almost universally taught against by police trainers and CCW trainers...too many fat lawyers....

 

[Dustin]

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sheepdog wrote:

In the case above described, in Louisiana under RS14:20.2,3,and 4a, as well as reading HB89 of '06 and HB1097 of '06, the shooter would have been totally justified...so being "pretty sure"....isn't accurate advice...and your reference to what's happenedto people shooting people "outside" their homes has no bearing on the discussion...my point was and is...your criticism of the shooter is your opinion...written law justifies him completely...and when you state what the law says...you should be stating it correctly...we read EXACTLY what you wrote...and there is the issue...I don't think those who replied to your post have ignoredor avoided the question as much as have given opinions and replies that disagreed with what you might have done...to post "Your say?" and then berate the answerers seems rude to me....

Believe that fairytale if you want to. I've grown up in Cenla, and now live above Lake Charles. I know what I've see LE do around here when bad things happen in front yards.

Which is why the old saying exist, "you better drag'em inside your house".

Isn't it legal to OC ?, yet we're still harrased.

Isn't it legal to own firearms for protection ?, yet during Katrina they were still confiscated.

Is it legal to kill someone threatening your life or your familes in your front yard ? According to the law maybe, according to wisdom, maybe not so much.

Get the point ?

 

[PT111]

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SNIP...
I for one do not support the concept of warning shots under any circumstances. If you have the time for warning shots, you have the time to think of something better than shooting someone.

Great thought there, should be in the book of quotations.

 

[darthmord]

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Dustin wrote:

sheepdog wrote:

In the case above described, in Louisiana under RS14:20.2,3,and 4a, as well as reading HB89 of '06 and HB1097 of '06, the shooter would have been totally justified...so being "pretty sure"....isn't accurate advice...and your reference to what's happenedto people shooting people "outside" their homes has no bearing on the discussion...my point was and is...your criticism of the shooter is your opinion...written law justifies him completely...and when you state what the law says...you should be stating it correctly...we read EXACTLY what you wrote...and there is the issue...I don't think those who replied to your post have ignoredor avoided the question as much as have given opinions and replies that disagreed with what you might have done...to post "Your say?" and then berate the answerers seems rude to me....

Believe that fairytale if you want to. I've grown up in Cenla, and now live above Lake Charles. I know what I've see LE do around here when bad things happen in front yards.

Which is why the old saying exist, "you better drag'em inside your house".

Isn't it legal to OC ?, yet we're still harrased.

Isn't it legal to own firearms for protection ?, yet during Katrina they were still confiscated.

Is it legal to kill someone threatening your life or your familes in your front yard ? According to the law maybe, according to wisdom, maybe not so much.

Get the point ?

I don't care what jurisdiction it is. If someone is threatening my family on my property whether it's the front yard, back yard, side yard, in my house, or in my garage, they will have but a fewseconds to rectify their 1st & 2nd mistakes.

The 1st being thinking they can do so without retribution. The 2nd being actually stupid enough to make the attempt. If they choose wisely, they won't make the 3rd mistake which would be trying to cause harm against my family or me. I may (or may not) use a firearm to make them regret their decision but they will regret it nonetheless.

One of the things I was taught by a prior service Marine... His rule of Fighting... Never start a fight. Make sure that if you must fight, you finish it. Your minimum goal is to send the other guy to the hospital, and if necessary, in a body bag. Learning from him was funny. As I got more skilled, I had less and less desire to fight.

When it comes to my wife & kids, I'd rather sit in jail and face charges than let someone hurt them because of bad laws.