HB 937 passes the general assembly. Goes to governor

[papa bear]

I do not want legislation to tell me i can OC. we have constitutional carry in NC. we do not need laws to say we can

what I would like to see is the removal of the restrictions we have

BTW. the bill only allows CHP holders to lock their firearm in their car. just WTH do people without a CHP supposed to do?

if you push a privilege you will lose a right

 

[X-JaVeN-X]

I do believe you are missing the point. The "elitism" stems from any requirement beyond being a human being, not the act of covering your firearm. The permit system requires the capital to pay for training, pay for the application, and pay for the fingerprints. Anyone that does not have the capital to do this, does not meet the requirements for a permit. As such, the classes of "haves" and "have nots" are created. How about the time to take the training or time spent at the sheriff's office? This creates classes of people based on the amount of spare time they have. Now, all of this would be moot if the restrictions for concealed carry with a permit were the same as the restrictions for constitutional open carry. Were that the case, we would all be denied the right to self defense equally. As the bill sits, however, people with time and money to spare will be afforded the privilege of carrying where people that have more important things to do than hang out with the sheriff or sit in class on a Saturday would be unarmed. No matter how minor or insignificant you make the requirements for anything, there will eventually be someone that will be unable to meet them, and they will be in a class seperated from those that are. That is elitism.

Don't give me the tired "poor people can't afford to get a CHP"...If they can afford a handgun, ammo, and a decent holster, then they can afford the cost to get a CHP. Again, I don't think we should need a permit to CC or OC...I think they should be looked at as situational options to our right to carry. Again...this legislation is a small step in the right direction...that is all. You have to pass what you can when you can and then continue to push further. If you grab too much too fast, it fails. That's just the reality of our current political environment/system.

My biggest gripe here is when an OCer will not back legislation that supports CC deregulation, but I guarantee would expect CCers to support legislation to back OCing (which they should). It's honestly hard not to be spiteful at the OCers with this mentality. However, I would absolutely support any legislation that aided the rights of OCing. . However, how many have come here and been turned off by the "our way or the highway" mentality? How many GUN OWNERS have you turned away from your cause with that sort of arrogance?

 

[X-JaVeN-X]

I do not want legislation to tell me i can OC. we have constitutional carry in NC. we do not need laws to say we can

what I would like to see is the removal of the restrictions we have

BTW. the bill only allows CHP holders to lock their firearm in their car. just WTH do people without a CHP supposed to do?

if you push a privilege you will lose a right

I don't want legislation saying that I can or can't CC...so what? Do you really think you're that different in your cause? You're not...

What do you do without a chp? You put your ideology on hold for a bit and get your CHP....and in the meantime you continue to push ANY legislation the gets us towards the end goal....complete deregulation of all the impasses placed on our right to carry.

 

[XD40sc]

I do believe you are missing the point. The "elitism" stems from any requirement beyond being a human being, not the act of covering your firearm. The permit system requires the capital to pay for training, pay for the application, and pay for the fingerprints. Anyone that does not have the capital to do this, does not meet the requirements for a permit. As such, the classes of "haves" and "have nots" are created. How about the time to take the training or time spent at the sheriff's office? This creates classes of people based on the amount of spare time they have. Now, all of this would be moot if the restrictions for concealed carry with a permit were the same as the restrictions for constitutional open carry. Were that the case, we would all be denied the right to self defense equally. As the bill sits, however, people with time and money to spare will be afforded the privilege of carrying where people that have more important things to do than hang out with the sheriff or sit in class on a Saturday would be unarmed. No matter how minor or insignificant you make the requirements for anything, there will eventually be someone that will be unable to meet them, and they will be in a class seperated from those that are. That is elitism.

Your focus is not on the threat. I'm assuming that many of the OC'ers that express views such as yours, did nothing to further the cause of this bill, and even secretly hoped it would not pass.

What you really need to do is look at the greater threats coming from Washington. Obama wants to confiscate every single handgun in the US. His goal is to override the 2A by making it a public health issue. http://www.westernjournalism.com/obama-assigns-job-of-gun-confiscation-to/

You (OC'ers) need every damn allies you can muster up, and by alienating CC'ers by your constant inane 'elitist' bull excrement crap. I spent more on ammo on my last outing to the range than I spent with the Sheriff for my CHP, plus the fact it was to shoot my new gun. What is your gun/ammo/holster/acessories budget and you can't find $90. I call BS

 

[rotorhead]

I think there is a general confusion of context going on. When saying "Constitutional Carry" within the context of carryinc concealed and in other ways, I think people are meaning/ wanting the ability to purchase and carry (openly and concealed) without a requirement of any kind of permit. Yes, the right to gun ownership and carrying is in the US and NC Constitutions, but I don't think that's the context of what some people mean when they talk about "Constitutional Carry".

At least that's my take on it.

Sadly, the NC Constitution specifically mentions concealed carry in a negative way. I think that's needs to change and hopefully we'll get to a point, similar to Vermont and a few other states, where a permit is no longer required to either purchase a handgun, nor to carry it concealed. That's basically what people mean when they say "Constitutional carry".

 

[WalkingWolf]

Carry is the act of carrying, constitutional carry is right defined in the constitution and recognized by the courts. So far in NC we mostly have constitutional open carry, both protected by the constitution and NC Supreme court.

BUT the GA has been able to get around the NC Supreme court ruling by taking small digs, like not allowing carry in restaurants that serve alcohol. GRNC has now separated that to only allow carry to a privileged group, thereby deterring a court case, it is cheaper to get a CHP than file a law suit to challenge the law.

At least one other state has a law similar to our restaurant law, EXCEPT it is for any business that SELLS alcohol. OC the supposed right would be limited to parking lots and roads. All but outlawing the right. Keep in mind the GA can take away a privilege at any time the winds in the courts shift and they feel comfortable with it.

I can gladly say I will be gone by that time, I can sadly say when it happens it will not be reversed.

You younger folks enjoy your privilege while you can, and know who you have to blame when it is forever gone.

A little reminder that if by chance the GA passes "constitutional" carry it is actually not. It is legislated carry and again can be taken away at anytime. The only way to guarantee (somewhat) carry is through the courts. But keep waiting for more progressive court appointments and see where it goes in the future.

I don't often reference movies, but from Forest Gump "Stupid is, as stupid does".

 

[jrj_51]

Don't give me the tired "poor people can't afford to get a CHP"...If they can afford a handgun, ammo, and a decent holster, then they can afford the cost to get a CHP.

Let me tell you about my parents. I grew up in rural Illinois in a middle class community, living the average middle class life. My mother has a bachelor's degree, my father just worked. All of a sudden, life struck! My mother got hit with a debilitating illness and can no longer work, and the company my dad worked for sold out to a company from Europe that fired everyone and started rehiring at half the pay. My parents don't live in the ghetto, they aren't uneducated street hoods, just good, hard working people. My dad now drives over the road Monday through Friday so they can try to pay the bills, and spends his weekends catching up mowing the lawn and doing other things around the house. For my parents, it would be a phenomenal accomplishment to scrape together the cash for any handgun. For them it would be nearly impossible to afford a handgun and a permit, especially under IL's new carry law. For my dad, it would be a great hassle and sacrifice to spend his little spare time in training rather than tending his property and seeing his grandchildren. I'm not asking for sympathy or pity for them. Just don't give me the tired "if you can afford a gun and holster blah blah blah."

 

[jrj_51]

Your focus is not on the threat. I'm assuming that many of the OC'ers that express views such as yours, did nothing to further the cause of this bill, and even secretly hoped it would not pass.

I never stated where my focus was. I was just trying to point out that regardless of how low you put the bar, there will be those that cannot get over it.

 

[Jared]

More than likely much more...since the only REAL qualification for the CHP would be non-felon status (or any of the other mickey mouse restrictions).

True, LEOSA only requires that one is not prohibited by federal law. So it is possible that some in NC may be eligible for LEOSA but not eligible for a CHP due to the state Mickey Mouse restrictions.

I know for a fact that this is more common than people think in Michigan.

 

[rotorhead]

Carry is the act of carrying, constitutional carry is right defined in the constitution and recognized by the courts. So far in NC we mostly have constitutional open carry, both protected by the constitution and NC Supreme court.

BUT the GA has been able to get around the NC Supreme court ruling by taking small digs, like not allowing carry in restaurants that serve alcohol. GRNC has now separated that to only allow carry to a privileged group, thereby deterring a court case, it is cheaper to get a CHP than file a law suit to challenge the law...

Yeah, and most other rights are somewhat limited, as well. Sucks, of course, but it's the world we live in. Any right named in either Constitution is just a vote or two away from being eliminated. Gun rights are no different, which is why I support certain groups as well as doing my individual things that attempt to have an effect at lessening that damage. Worse, any right can be also affected by court cases, too. That doesn't even take a vote it just takes a swing of the gavel and BAM, rights are limited. The courts can work against us as well as for us.

Ultimately I'd like to see the concealed carry provisions stripped from the state constitution and every permit done away with.

 

[papa bear]

I don't want legislation saying that I can or can't CC...so what? Do you really think you're that different in your cause? You're not...

What do you do without a chp? You put your ideology on hold for a bit and get your CHP....and in the meantime you continue to push ANY legislation the gets us towards the end goal....complete deregulation of all the impasses placed on our right to carry.

since CC is against the constitution, you have a long row to hoe.

i have not needed a CHP in 30 years and don't want to need one now. but now with this new privilege law you can not keep your fire arm in a locked car.

the law is against constitutional carry (if you need permission it is not constitutional) to push a privilege over a right.

if you teach everyone that a fire arm is to be hidden then you are playing to the sheeple and the hopolophobes that are afraid to see a firearm in the open and like honest man wears his.
when you push a privilege you lose a right. if that is your end goal you are heading in the right direction.

but you are right i did not support this bill. i was feeling better about it when it was going to get rid of the stupid racist PPP laws. when that was lost i felt that this was a bad thing for rights in NC

 

[carolina guy]

since CC is against the constitution, you have a long row to hoe.

i have not needed a CHP in 30 years and don't want to need one now. but now with this new privilege law you can not keep your fire arm in a locked car.

the law is against constitutional carry (if you need permission it is not constitutional) to push a privilege over a right.

if you teach everyone that a fire arm is to be hidden then you are playing to the sheeple and the hopolophobes that are afraid to see a firearm in the open and like honest man wears his.
when you push a privilege you lose a right. if that is your end goal you are heading in the right direction.

but you are right i did not support this bill. i was feeling better about it when it was going to get rid of the stupid racist PPP laws. when that was lost i felt that this was a bad thing for rights in NC

You are correct, CC is against the NC Constitution, and OC has been specifically called out by numerous court cases as Constitutional.

IMO, since the 14A has been determined to apply the 2A to the States, then this means that NC MUST continue to allow OC, per US and NC Constitutions. Further, since the GA has "allowed" carry (albeit CC) in additional places, I would argue that OC must therefore be Constitutional in those places as well. Why? Since the state has by its Legislative and Executive actions, shown that it has no further "compelling interest" in that restriction, which would ordinarily cause a 2A OC case to fail on "strict scrutiny".

 

[diablos30]

signed today

http://www.wral.com/mccrory-signs-abortion-gun-rights-changes-into-law/12717337/

 

[X-JaVeN-X]

Let me tell you about my parents. I grew up in rural Illinois in a middle class community, living the average middle class life. My mother has a bachelor's degree, my father just worked. All of a sudden, life struck! My mother got hit with a debilitating illness and can no longer work, and the company my dad worked for sold out to a company from Europe that fired everyone and started rehiring at half the pay. My parents don't live in the ghetto, they aren't uneducated street hoods, just good, hard working people. My dad now drives over the road Monday through Friday so they can try to pay the bills, and spends his weekends catching up mowing the lawn and doing other things around the house. For my parents, it would be a phenomenal accomplishment to scrape together the cash for any handgun. For them it would be nearly impossible to afford a handgun and a permit, especially under IL's new carry law. For my dad, it would be a great hassle and sacrifice to spend his little spare time in training rather than tending his property and seeing his grandchildren. I'm not asking for sympathy or pity for them. Just don't give me the tired "if you can afford a gun and holster blah blah blah."

You're preaching to the choir...unlike you talking about your parents...I currently live week to week and paycheck to paycheck with my wife and two kids. My wife is just trying to get through nursing school to better our situation, but in the meantime, it's week to week. Guess what...we both have our CHP...it's all about priority. Again...if you can save to buy a handgun and holster...you can save to get a permit. As for the training? I spent the better part of a day taking the class I needed to apply for my CHP...I came home that afternoon and mowed the grass.

Now, I would love to see the day that we don't need to fork over a dime to get a permit, and I would support any legislation that took us in that direction. However, in the meantime, I'm not going to hinder myself (and other gun owners) from gaining carry options by only supporting a narrow ideology of what I think carrying should be. Maybe one day we get to a complete "constitutional carry", but maybe we don't. I'll take what progress I can get right now and keep hoping and pushing for more. We didn't lose our rights overnight, and we won't get them back overnight either...

 

[jrj_51]

You're preaching to the choir...unlike you talking about your parents...I currently live week to week and paycheck to paycheck with my wife and two kids. My wife is just trying to get through nursing school to better our situation, but in the meantime, it's week to week. Guess what...we both have our CHP...it's all about priority. Again...if you can save to buy a handgun and holster...you can save to get a permit. As for the training? I spent the better part of a day taking the class I needed to apply for my CHP...I came home that afternoon and mowed the grass.

Now, I would love to see the day that we don't need to fork over a dime to get a permit, and I would support any legislation that took us in that direction. However, in the meantime, I'm not going to hinder myself (and other gun owners) from gaining carry options by only supporting a narrow ideology of what I think carrying should be. Maybe one day we get to a complete "constitutional carry", but maybe we don't. I'll take what progress I can get right now and keep hoping and pushing for more. We didn't lose our rights overnight, and we won't get them back overnight either...

And in the months or maybe years it could take to save up, I guess some people can just get fornicated. You are right, we didn't lose our rights overnight, but little capitulations like this expidited the process.

 

[dmatting]

I used to accept the argument that pushing this kind of legislation is an incremental process and that the next steps will be to remove more restrictions for both OC and CC, but I don't anymore. Immediately after the bill was signed there were many calling for MORE laws so that they could have their hand held even more while they carried CC. No thanks.

 

[ron73440]

I used to accept the argument that pushing this kind of legislation is an incremental process and that the next steps will be to remove more restrictions for both OC and CC, but I don't anymore. Immediately after the bill was signed there were many calling for MORE laws so that they could have their hand held even more while they carried CC. No thanks.

+1

 

[WalkingWolf]

The whole intent is to do away with unlicensed carry. It is very obvious by the language that is used, and the hatred of the lobbyists for those who forgo pay for carry. The parking lot special privileges is ridicules and stupid, and opens the road for outlawing storing firearms in cars even though it has always been acceptable. Same for the restaurant carry, those who wished to carry in alcohol serving restaurants DID, that is why it is called concealed carry. Look for next, and soon restrictions with caveats placed on any business that sells alcohol where one would need a permit to carry. Which would outright make most of the places of carry illegal for unlicensed carry.

Follow the money, or the bank account of the lobbyists. Ohhhh Wait you can't he won't make them publicly available. In ten years unlicensed OC except the home and highways will be gone. SCOTUS will have changed dramatically and with voting illegal aliens in the state of NC it will be a blue state.

Kiss your rights goodbye, and know YOU let it happen.

 

[ron73440]

The whole intent is to do away with unlicensed carry. It is very obvious by the language that is used, and the hatred of the lobbyists for those who forgo pay for carry. The parking lot special privileges is ridicules and stupid, and opens the road for outlawing storing firearms in cars even though it has always been acceptable. Same for the restaurant carry, those who wished to carry in alcohol serving restaurants DID, that is why it is called concealed carry. Look for next, and soon restrictions with caveats placed on any business that sells alcohol where one would need a permit to carry. Which would outright make most of the places of carry illegal for unlicensed carry.

Follow the money, or the bank account of the lobbyists. Ohhhh Wait you can't he won't make them publicly available. In ten years unlicensed OC except the home and highways will be gone. SCOTUS will have changed dramatically and with voting illegal aliens in the state of NC it will be a blue state.

Kiss your rights goodbye, and know YOU let it happen.

REALLY?? You don't trust them?

That's crazy talk, they are working for your benefit and are really trying to expand our rights, they just can't point to a single time rights were expanded instead of privileges because...

Well, I'm not sure why, but they must have a good reason, they say it so it must be true.

 

[X-JaVeN-X]

And in the months or maybe years it could take to save up, I guess some people can just get fornicated. You are right, we didn't lose our rights overnight, but little capitulations like this expidited the process.

Many people will also be in car accidents and die, get cancer and die, etc, etc, etc. Life happens one way or another. Having a gun on you doesn't guarantee that you will not "get fornicated". What about the people that can't afford to buy a gun? Should we back legislation to have the government (ie us) buy everyone a gun to go along with their free cell phone? Or do they just take the risk until they can afford to buy one, whether that be months or years of saving? Again, it's all about priority...if I were in a high risk area for being murdered or raped, then I'd put a lot more priority into getting what I need to carry (including a permit if that is the case).

Again, while I would love to see carrying of any sort permit free, I'm not going to wait until it happens before I carry...I'm going to do what it takes to get what I need to carry that weapon with me in as many places as I can legally. That's exactly what my wife and I have done. We sacrificed in other areas to afford what we needed to CC.

So, either go get a permit, or stand there and "get fornicated"...It's your choice.