Involved in an accident, and they detain me & my weapons!??!?!?

[Shotgun]

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Brass Magnet wrote:

Shotgun wrote:

Lammie wrote:

Technically a knife (any knife) concealed in a pocket meets the definition. There also is no mention in the knife laws of "minimum" blade length. If a "pocket knife" is capable of conflictingsignificant bodily harm or death it is by definition a "dangerous weapon".

Not really. Not all knives are designed as weapons. Technically to be a "concealed weapon" something has to either be designed as a weapon, or employed as a weapon. A steak knife is not designed as a weapon, but could certainly be used as a weapon-- but that's also true of a ballpoint pen, a baseball bat, a screwdriver, and countless other objects.

Landose was not charged with concealing, but with having a switchblade-- obviously by an ignorant police officer. Perhaps the DA's office will be smarter.

Really? I don't know. It's pretty vauge.

939.22

(10) “Dangerous weapon” means any firearm, whether
loaded or unloaded; any device designed as a weapon and capable
of producing death or great bodily harm; any ligature or other
instrumentality used on the throat, neck, nose, or mouth of another
person to impede, partially or completely, breathing or circulation
of blood; any electric weapon, as defined in s. 941.295 (4); or any
other device or instrumentality which, in the manner it is used or
intended to be used, is calculated or likely to produce death or
great bodily harm.

Looks like it fits any knife to me.:uhoh: I suppose that you could argue that a pocket knife isn't intended to be used to produce death or great bodily harm. However; if you were to say to the officer that you were carrying anything at all for "protection" then your item, be it a knife, or a wooden spoon would probably fit the definition.

Not that vague to me, and the wording of the law is pretty much the way I stated my understanding of it. The first part basically says an object is a weapon if it is designed to be a weapon, and the second part says an object is a weapon if it is used as a weapon, which covers things that are ostensibly non-weapons but actually employed as a weapon. So a steak knife, which is not designed to be a weapon, remains a non-weapon as long it is used to cut steak, or whittle wood, or shave your beard-- but it becomes a weapon under the law if you use it to slash a person, or rob somebody while threatening them with it. Some knives are designed to be weapons, some are not. Any non-weapon knife can be used as a weapon, and the moment you do so, it legally becomes a weapon. But unless actually employed as a weapon the majority of knives are manufactured as non-weapons. They're tools. Cars are sometimes defined as weapons-- when someone intentionally tries to run another person over-- but they are non-weapons outside of such use.

If you carry a knife called something like "the special forces throat-slashing sentry silent eliminator" it is prudent to not carry it concealed in places you cannot legally carry a concealed weapon. It's obviously designed as a weapon. But if the knife is the "farm boy stick whittler" keep it deep in your pocket if you want.

When you're getting old like me, the best non-weapon you can carry is a good sturdy cane. You can even take it anywhere...

 

[Brass Magnet]

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Shotgun wrote:

Brass Magnet wrote:

Shotgun wrote:

Lammie wrote:

Technically a knife (any knife) concealed in a pocket meets the definition. There also is no mention in the knife laws of "minimum" blade length. If a "pocket knife" is capable of conflictingsignificant bodily harm or death it is by definition a "dangerous weapon".

Not really. Not all knives are designed as weapons. Technically to be a "concealed weapon" something has to either be designed as a weapon, or employed as a weapon. A steak knife is not designed as a weapon, but could certainly be used as a weapon-- but that's also true of a ballpoint pen, a baseball bat, a screwdriver, and countless other objects.

Landose was not charged with concealing, but with having a switchblade-- obviously by an ignorant police officer. Perhaps the DA's office will be smarter.

Really? I don't know. It's pretty vauge.

939.22

(10) “Dangerous weapon” means any firearm, whether
loaded or unloaded; any device designed as a weapon and capable
of producing death or great bodily harm; any ligature or other
instrumentality used on the throat, neck, nose, or mouth of another
person to impede, partially or completely, breathing or circulation
of blood; any electric weapon, as defined in s. 941.295 (4); or any
other device or instrumentality which, in the manner it is used or
intended to be used, is calculated or likely to produce death or
great bodily harm.

Looks like it fits any knife to me.:uhoh: I suppose that you could argue that a pocket knife isn't intended to be used to produce death or great bodily harm. However; if you were to say to the officer that you were carrying anything at all for "protection" then your item, be it a knife, or a wooden spoon would probably fit the definition.

Not that vague to me, and the wording of the law is pretty much the way I stated my understanding of it. The first part basically says an object is a weapon if it is designed to be a weapon, and the second part says an object is a weapon if it is used as a weapon, which covers things that are ostensibly non-weapons but actually employed as a weapon. So a steak knife, which is not designed to be a weapon, remains a non-weapon as long it is used to cut steak, or whittle wood, or shave your beard-- but it becomes a weapon under the law if you use it to slash a person, or rob somebody while threatening them with it. Some knives are designed to be weapons, some are not. Any non-weapon knife can be used as a weapon, and the moment you do so, it legally becomes a weapon. But unless actually employed as a weapon the majority of knives are manufactured as non-weapons. They're tools. Cars are sometimes defined as weapons-- when someone intentionally tries to run another person over-- but they are non-weapons outside of such use.

If you carry a knife called something like "the special forces throat-slashing sentry silent eliminator" it is prudent to not carry it concealed in places you cannot legally carry a concealed weapon. It's obviously designed as a weapon. But if the knife is the "farm boy stick whittler" keep it deep in your pocket if you want.

When you're getting old like me, the best non-weapon you can carry is a good sturdy cane. You can even take it anywhere...

Where you lose me is whereyou sayit needs to actually be "used" as a weapon to be considered a "dangerous weapon".

The way I read the part that I had in red text above:

or any
other device or instrumentality which, in the manner it is used or
intended to be used, is calculated or likely to produce death or
great bodily harm.

If you are carrying that steak knife you talked about on your person, it's not intended to be used to cut steaks. That's where I come to the conclusion that if an officer asks you why you're carrying a spatula and you say "for protection", that could turn it into a dangerous weapon in the eyes of a law.

 

[Landose_theghost]

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BTW,I will also add that ALL of my knives were in plain sight.

 

[Interceptor_Knight]

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Landose_theghost wrote:

BTW,I will also add that ALL of my knives were in plain sight.

Since you were in a car, not according to the dual standard WI CCW law they weren't.

 

[Nutczak]

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:

Landose_theghost wrote:

BTW,I will also add that ALL of my knives were in plain sight.

Since you were in a car, not according to the dual standard WI CCW law they weren't.

Dougs got a valid point,
I was arrested in shorewood for having my working knives in my car many many years ago. They were rolled up in a case made to hold professional kitchen knives and I actually got arrested, cuffed, charged & printed with my knives confiscated.

I was later found not-guilty of the charges in court, Now get this, Employed as a cook, have my knife collection in a soft-sided case in my car, and during an illegal search they call them concealed weapons and arrest me. I was 20-21 at the time, and got a ton of harrassment from police at that age.

 

[GlockMeisterG21]

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AaronS wrote:

GlockMeisterG21 wrote:

Yea, that's why I say it's for "utility" proposes. You never know when you need to open a box or slice off a piece of apple.

I am not thinking that one would use a dagger for this, but who am I...

Of the three knifes I see, I would say two could have gotten you a concealed charge, but again IANAL, or a cop... If a concealed charge could have been filed, I think you might have gotten off easy.

I was referring to the little folder I just picked up and any blades like it. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[AaronS]

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Interceptor_Knight wrote:

Landose_theghost wrote:

BTW,I will also add that ALL of my knives were in plain sight.

Since you were in a car, not according to the dual standard WI CCW law they weren't.

Correct Interceptor.

Once you were in the car, you were concealing. That's just how the Wisconsin law works. Even if you put the weapons on the dashboard for all to see, it is the same. Dumb law if you ask me, but it is, what it is...

Again you got lucky, he could have taken you in and busted you.

 

[Shotgun]

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Brass Magnet wrote:

Where you lose me is whereyou sayit needs to actually be "used" as a weapon to be considered a "dangerous weapon".

The way I read the part that I had in red text above:

or any
other device or instrumentality which, in the manner it is used or
intended to be used, is calculated or likely to produce death or
great bodily harm.

If you are carrying that steak knife you talked about on your person, it's not intended to be used to cut steaks. That's where I come to the conclusion that if an officer asks you why you're carrying a spatula and you say "for protection", that could turn it into a dangerous weapon in the eyes of a law.

How do you show intent? If I stab or slice a person with a steak knife, I have USED it as a weapon. If I threaten to cut or slice a person with it, or make slicing and stabbing motions towards you, I have shown my intent to use it as a weapon. If I am merely carrying it around I have neither used it as a weapon nor shown any intent to use it for anything other than it's designed purpose. Any other interpretation results in the absurd conclusion that one can be arrested merely for possessing anything concealed which could be potentially used as a weapon-- a rock in the pocket, a pool ball, a comb, a pencil or pen, a heavy ashtray, a belt buckle, a key ring, etc...

 

[Brass Magnet]

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Shotgun wrote:

Brass Magnet wrote:

Where you lose me is whereyou sayit needs to actually be "used" as a weapon to be considered a "dangerous weapon".

The way I read the part that I had in red text above:

or any
other device or instrumentality which, in the manner it is used or
intended to be used, is calculated or likely to produce death or
great bodily harm.

If you are carrying that steak knife you talked about on your person, it's not intended to be used to cut steaks. That's where I come to the conclusion that if an officer asks you why you're carrying a spatula and you say "for protection", that could turn it into a dangerous weapon in the eyes of a law.

[snip]

Any other interpretation results in the absurd conclusion that one can be arrested merely for possessing anything concealed which could be potentially used as a weapon-- a rock in the pocket, a pool ball, a comb, a pencil or pen, a heavy ashtray, a belt buckle, a key ring, etc...

I agree that it's absurd. Unfortunately, there's a lot of that going around lately. I'm not saying you would be convicted for it, but it seems possible (although highly improbable) that it's possible to be arrested for it. Especially if I were to use the less extreme example of a pocket knife.

I think a place where this ambiguous wording would likelybe used would be an improvised weapon, such as a inmates sharpened toothbrush, a shiv, etc....

Also, as I said in myexampleearlier, if you were silly enough to say that your 2.5" folding pocket knife was for "protection" would that not prove intent and possibly get you convicted?

 

[Doug Huffman]

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Intent is at the heart of criminal law and is decided by the trier of fact, the judge or jury.