Island Lake Militia Field Day Family/Open Carry Picnic

[LFB]

imported post

The Manager, being a 25 year LEO, has a mixed feeling on OC himself. He told me that the reason for the policy is for the safety of his patrons. He doesn't want someone who is not familiar with carrying a gun, to do so. They also have a rule that you cannot shoot from a holster. They don't want a muzzle sweep with a loaded gun, finger on the trigger. Being that it IS a public State range, you get a lot of yahoos there. I have seen several people there that had no clue as to how to handle afirearm.

 

[Big Gay Al]

imported post

LFB wrote:

The Manager, being a 25 year LEO, has a mixed feeling on OC himself. He told me that the reason for the policy is for the safety of his patrons. He doesn't want someone who is not familiar with carrying a gun, to do so. They also have a rule that you cannot shoot from a holster. They don't want a muzzle sweep with a loaded gun, finger on the trigger. Being that it IS a public State range, you get a lot of yahoos there. I have seen several people there that had no clue as to how to handle afirearm.

Yup, most ranges open to the public, have the "no drawing from the holster" rule. The only place I've not seen it was at a gun club range, and that was with an instructor giving us lessons on drawing from concealment and such. A "practical" pistol course.

What's the old saying, "His range, his rules." I'm also sure he doesn't want any accidents as that would give the anti's who live near by, more fuel to try to get the range closed.

 

[LFB]

imported post

Big Gay Al wrote:

LFB wrote:

The Manager, being a 25 year LEO, has a mixed feeling on OC himself. He told me that the reason for the policy is for the safety of his patrons. He doesn't want someone who is not familiar with carrying a gun, to do so. They also have a rule that you cannot shoot from a holster. They don't want a muzzle sweep with a loaded gun, finger on the trigger. Being that it IS a public State range, you get a lot of yahoos there. I have seen several people there that had no clue as to how to handle afirearm.

Yup, most ranges open to the public, have the "no drawing from the holster" rule. The only place I've not seen it was at a gun club range, and that was with an instructor giving us lessons on drawing from concealment and such. A "practical" pistol course.

What's the old saying, "His range, his rules." I'm also sure he doesn't want any accidents as that would give the anti's who live near by, more fuel to try to get the range closed

So.. if most ranges have a no drawing from the hoster rule, how are you going to open carry on the range?

You can open carry at the range, just not inside the fence line where the shooting goes on. From the gate to the bench, all guns being shot must be in a case. Only at the bench, can a gun be uncased. They have no rules against CC, other than they don't want you shooting that gun. Unless you go outside the fence, case it, bring it back in to the bench, uncase it on the bench.

 

[Declaration Day]

imported post

mikestilly wrote:

Interesting they promote a range that doesnt allow open carry. Seems quite backwards to me.. Gun rights group promote's a range where a right to carry firearms is banned. Not something I'd be interested in supporting. You guys might want to rethink that strategy.

Hello gentlemen,

My name is Bryan and I am a member of the SMVM with LFB.

I understand the sentiment quoted above, but let me explain our situation.

For fifteen years our group had the use of a private range on a 140-acre farm for all of our events. It was owned by a kind old World War 2 veteran. Sadly, he recently passed away and we lost access to our training ground.

Over the past few months we have made do with what we can find. Currently Island Lake Recreation Area is the best place we know of within a reasonable distance. We will work to try and change their no open carry policy, and also look for other suitable locations for our events.

Please bear with us and don't let the range's bad policy stop you from coming to the park to check us out. You can OC anywhere else in the park, including where our picnic will be. This event has ALWAYS been a good time, and it will be worth your time. Thanks for reading, and I hope to see you there.

Bryan

 

[manicdevery]

imported post

Declaration Day wrote:

mikestilly wrote:

Interesting they promote a range that doesnt allow open carry. Seems quite backwards to me.. Gun rights group promote's a range where a right to carry firearms is banned. Not something I'd be interested in supporting. You guys might want to rethink that strategy.

Hello gentlemen,

My name is Bryan and I am a member of the SMVM with LFB.

I understand the sentiment quoted above, but let me explain our situation.

For fifteen years our group had the use of a private range on a 140-acre farm for all of our events. It was owned by a kind old World War 2 veteran. Sadly, he recently passed away and we lost access to our training ground.

Over the past few months we have made do with what we can find. Currently Island Lake Recreation Area is the best place we know of within a reasonable distance. We will work to try and change their no open carry policy, and also look for other suitable locations for our events.

Please bear with us and don't let the range's bad policy stop you from coming to the park to check us out. You can OC anywhere else in the park, including where our picnic will be. This event has ALWAYS been a good time, and it will be worth your time. Thanks for reading, and I hope to see you there.

Bryan

I plan on going, i have been checking out the Michigan militia website for a couple day now. looks like fun with my kind of people.

Devery

 

[Big Gay Al]

imported post

So.. if most ranges have a no drawing from the hoster rule, how are you going to open carry on the range?

The short answer is you don't. Depends on the range though. Some might allow OC, but no drawing from the holster at the range. This means if you intend to shoot your carry weapon (a bad idea in general) you have to have that in a case, and carry something else.

 

[pmcqueen37]

imported post

mikestilly wrote:

Interesting they promote a range that doesnt allow open carry. Seems quite backwards to me.. Gun rights group promote's a range where a right to carry firearms is banned. Not something I'd be interested in supporting. You guys might want to rethink that strategy.

I disagree, I think these are the places we should go to show that OC is a Non issue and convince them to change the rules, rather than alienate them for their policy. just My .02c

 

[crosscobra]

imported post

i am a former member of these groups and from what i have seen most of the stuff they pratice is WAY out of touch with currect tactics coming from a combat vetwho has trained with these groups. ( i will not be attendeding this event due to the fact that i due not agree with how the MM is ran) It is a clear testimate to how they opperate when they are "fighting" for our rights but will not allow our right to open carry at due to thier rules? This is what i found out when i was a part of there group. I find it ofending that they invite mebers of Open Carry.org but yet will not allow them to open carry.... I challange you go to one of these training, see how they operate and you too will understand why i left, and why the MM movement as a whole is not doing anything to uphold out said "rights"... But make your own choice. like i said attened a meeting.... go see a training, the guys you will meet are some great guys personaly... but as far as training, tactics, and down right common sence.... most are lacking

 

[johnniebravo]

imported post

Ok I'm confused, if it is a stae range doesnt preemption apply? What am i missing in this equation guys?

 

[SpringerXDacp]

imported post

johnniebravo wrote:

Ok I'm confused, if it is a stae range doesnt preemption apply? What am i missing in this equation guys?

Island Lake is a State Park where preemption would apply for OC or CC. I don't know how preemption comes into play for a designated shooting range within a State Park. My guess it doesn't and that would explain the OC prohibition (possibly invalid) only within the shooting area of the park.

 

[Taurus850CIA]

imported post

SpringerXDacp wrote:

johnniebravo wrote:

Ok I'm confused, if it is a stae range doesnt preemption apply? What am i missing in this equation guys?

Island Lake is a State Park where preemption would apply for OC or CC. I don't know how preemption comes into play for a designated shooting range within a State Park. My guess it doesn't and that would explain the OC prohibition (possibly invalid) only within the shooting area of the park.

I don't recall any disqualifier in MCL for range areas on public property. It's all public property.

Private management of the range shouldn't make a difference, either, I wouldn't think. I should think that they have to follow the law, or am I wrong?

 

[autosurgeon]

imported post

SpringerXDacp wrote:

johnniebravo wrote:

Ok I'm confused, if it is a stae range doesnt preemption apply?   What am i missing in this equation guys?

Island Lake is a State Park where preemption would apply for OC or CC.  I don't know how preemption comes into play for a designated shooting range within a State Park.  My guess it doesn't and that would explain the OC prohibition (possibly invalid) only within the shooting area of the park.

If the facility is paid for with tax dollars and only operated by a private contractor for the purpose of range mastering and selling of range time then I would have to think that preemption WOULD apply.

 

[Big Gay Al]

imported post

This is just a guess, but I'll bet they can enforce the rules on a basis of range safety.

 

[Taurus850CIA]

imported post

Big Gay Al wrote:

This is just a guess, but I'll bet they can enforce the rules on a basis of range safety.

Even if it's bunk? What's safer about a piece of cloth covering a gun?

eta: Not allowing one to draw and shoot from a holster covers the safety issue.

 

[Big Gay Al]

imported post

Taurus850CIA wrote:

Big Gay Al wrote:

This is just a guess, but I'll bet they can enforce the rules on a basis of range safety.

Even if it's bunk? What's safer about a piece of cloth covering a gun?

eta: Not allowing one to draw and shoot from a holster covers the safety issue.

Do you know if they allow CC at the range? I don't know.

My guess to is, the people who manage the range pay rent, so I'm not all the sure pre-emption would apply in this case. But you could always take it up with the manager and see what happens.

Just because they might have a rule that says "no drawing from the holster" doesn't mean some one won't try.

 

[SpringerXDacp]

imported post

Taurus850CIA wrote:

Big Gay Al wrote:

This is just a guess, but I'll bet they can enforce the rules on a basis of range safety.

Even if it's bunk? What's safer about a piece of cloth covering a gun?

eta: Not allowing one to draw and shoot from a holster covers the safety issue.

Absolutely nothing. IMO, and always has been, it's about control.

 

[Taurus850CIA]

imported post

Big Gay Al wrote:

Do you know if they allow CC at the range? I don't know.

My guess to is, the people who manage the range pay rent, so I'm not all the sure pre-emption would apply in this case. But you could always take it up with the manager and see what happens.

Just because they might have a rule that says "no drawing from the holster" doesn't mean some one won't try.

Well, I "assumed" that CC is allowed, due to the specific nature of the following statement:

You guys are right. The range has decided to NOT allow OPEN CARRY. Why would nayone here ever go to an event in order to try and persuade anyone that OC'ing is a RIGHT. Let's let someone else fight the fight and then we can all go to the places they have convinced that OC is our right.

I suppose I may have fallen prey to the "assume" rule, but I don't think so...:uhoh:. I'm sure I will be stoutly corrected if I'm wrong.

 

[crosscobra]

imported post

SpringerXDacp wrote:

Taurus850CIA wrote:

Big Gay Al wrote:

This is just a guess, but I'll bet they can enforce the rules on a basis of range safety.

Even if it's bunk? What's safer about a piece of cloth covering a gun?

eta: Not allowing one to draw and shoot from a holster covers the safety issue.

Absolutely nothing. IMO, and always has been, it's about control.

yes sir

 

[Big Gay Al]

imported post

Taurus850CIA wrote:

Big Gay Al wrote:

Do you know if they allow CC at the range? I don't know.

My guess to is, the people who manage the range pay rent, so I'm not all the sure pre-emption would apply in this case. But you could always take it up with the manager and see what happens.

Just because they might have a rule that says "no drawing from the holster" doesn't mean some one won't try.

Well, I "assumed" that CC is allowed, due to the specific nature of the following statement:

You guys are right. The range has decided to NOT allow OPEN CARRY. Why would nayone here ever go to an event in order to try and persuade anyone that OC'ing is a RIGHT. Let's let someone else fight the fight and then we can all go to the places they have convinced that OC is our right.

I suppose I may have fallen prey to the "assume" rule, but I don't think so...:uhoh:. I'm sure I will be stoutly corrected if I'm wrong.

Assumption is the mother of all eff ups.

As for the rest, the OP already stated why they're having their thing at Island Lake. I'd suggest, unless someone has a better suggestion, either go or don't go. Or, try friendly persuasion on the guy who runs the range. All this back and forth here doesn't really do us any good.

 

[Taurus850CIA]

imported post

Big Gay Al wrote:

Assumption is the mother of all eff ups. I agree!

As for the rest, the OP already stated why they're having their thing at Island Lake. I'd suggest, unless someone has a better suggestion, either go or don't go. Or, try friendly persuasion on the guy who runs the range. All this back and forth here doesn't really do us any good. It does if we determine that pre-emption applies. That way we have ammo of different colors when we show up.