Kicked out of Barnes & Noble an hour ago (potomac yard)!

[HankT]

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Virginiaplanter wrote:

Willis v. Commonwealth, Va. App (1997). There is no greater breach of trust of public office than an officer under the color of law lying to commit a violation of your rights. Common law malfeasance.

Under the color of law he unlawfully detained you using a known lie (the Manager told him to remove you) as a pretence.

Well, it is clear that someone lied. Either Sgt. Mucci or the bookstore manager.

I'd say it was Mucci that lied. The bookstore manager didn't really do anything wrong that I can tell--if customer(s) actually complained to her about a man with a gun. The manager has a responsibility to resolve those kinds of issues for its customers.

Let's face it, a customer with a gun and a customer who is concerned about a man with a gun in the store (who is not LE or security) are equal. So, the manager probably handled it OK.

 

[Citizen]

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Its entirely possible that both Mucci and Manager are giving less than truthful information.

I think it entirely possible that the Manager called, but then felt a little remorseful or "exposed to possible complaint or legal repercussions" from Unrequited once she saw what went down. She may have never thought the police would be so heavy handed.

She may be genuinely friendly and apologetic, truly.Or she may also be scared, with her apologies being her method of appeasing a potential angry customer or litigant.

Just need to be ready for her to change her story.

 

[LEO 229]

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BB62 wrote:

It's not so cut and dried as you make it. Sorry.

The supervisor sure came out to my location whenI was stopped at gunpoint for OCing on the sidewalk near my home. No violence, complaint of injury or something real bad involved - except uninformed cops.

...snip

There is a big difference here.... you were at GUN POINT!!! He was not.

Anything can happen.... but in my experience... normally they will not show up.

 

[Mr. Y]

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Outnumbered, you did the right thing. Do the FOIA, file a complaint.

Neither will go anywhere. This needs to happen in a situation like Champps, when the thugs are outnumbered. Then it's a little easier to"take the bully out of his comfort zone" - such as sitting right where you are and saying "I'm not answering any questions" repeatedly.

Eventually they will either leave, or provokea confrontation (battery). The former would be wise, the latter you would be able to pursue criminally (as previously noted, the court also held that when an officer acts outside the scope of his / her authority and forces an arrest known or reasonably should have know to be unlawful, he commits a (criminal) battery.

Don't be too quick to jump on the B&N mgt. Think of this as the lowest common denominator; money. It seems that one paying customer says another makes them nervous... If another does, risk losing the customers, or try to do something....

Think back to before you knew all the ins and outs of carrying a gun. Looking back, before you were carrying, you probably were a little ignorant of all the legal ins and outs; I was. B/N staff probably just aren't versed on the laws. Hopefully, next time this happens they'll just tell the patrons - "Don't worry, that's our good friend Chris and several of his close friends. They're really good guys".

 

[HankT]

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Citizen wrote:

Its entirely possible that both Mucci and Manager are giving less than truthful information.

Good point. That is a possibility. I regret making my statement above an "or" statement. Could be both. Whatever it is, it should come out in an investigation. My money is on Mucci being a fibber.


Citizen wrote:

I think it entirely possible that the Manager called, but then felt a little remorseful or "exposed to possible complaint or legal repercussions" from Unrequited once she saw what went down. She may have never thought the police would be so heavy handed.

That's a scenario. But is it a plausible scenario? She admittedcalling the police, IIRC, as a means of resolving a customer problem. So she was willing to face up to un and tell him that her call is what got the police there. Andif she is a manager, she must befairly intelligent. So she'd be able to figure out that she'd donea right thingand that her responsibility for any mistreatment ofun by the responding LEOs would be on them. Not her.Ifcustomer(s)did reallycomplain/ask her to dosomething about an un with a gun,then she did OK by calling the police. Althoughshehad a couple ofother options on how tohandle, she had to pick one.

Retailstore managers see all kinds of customer problems. They get pretty good at handling them. B&N is a pretty good organization, so they probably trainand support theirdecision-makers pretty well. They're in business to make people satisfied. They generally think of that when they do stuff that affects customers.



Citizen wrote:

She may be genuinely friendly and apologetic, truly.Or she may also be scared, with her apologies being her method of appeasing a potential angry customer or litigant.

Just need to be ready for her to change her story.

Well, she may be a MMMer. That is possible. Hell, the whole incident going the way it did could be pretty well explained by one of those sneaky MMM plots. They were pretty angry with OCers, weren't they? And they have been hiding their meetings lately...plotting, perhaps?

The Moms threatened to get even, probably....

Yes, it all fits now....

 

[vrwmiller]

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Citizen wrote:

Its entirely possible that both Mucci and Manager are giving less than truthful information.

I agree. Since it appears that it was the manager that initiated the call for service, I think the answer will come when a recording of the issuing complaint is heard.

 

[TEX1N]

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After seeing the video and reading unrequited's narrative, I am under the impression that the less-than-truthful account is coming from the officer and not the manager. The officer was very aggressive and heavy handed and I believe that if the manager had told the officer that unrequited was trespassing - because he was carrying a gun against her policy - that the officer would've tried to arrest unrequited for trespass.

By unrequited's account it sounds like the manager asked the officer, in good faith, for advice on the legality of a patron who was open carrying. Instead of walking over and observing unrequited and then notifying the manager that no laws were being broken, the officer took it into her (his?) hands and decided to impose her own political agenda upon requited.

I would not fault the manager if she was truly acting in good faith in order to find out the legality of a customer withing her store. And she probably believed that the police were the best people to ask for advice on the law!

 

[TEX1N]

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vrwmiller wrote:

Citizen wrote:

Its entirely possible that both Mucci and Manager are giving less than truthful information.

I agree. Since it appears that it was the manager that initiated the call for service, I think the answer will come when a recording of the issuing complaint is heard.

I also agree on this point.

Although do we know if there was actually a call for service, or were the police already in the store and the manager verbally asked them for advice? I was a little confused as to how the police were "called" by the manager.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

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Who was lying?

Ask Sgt Mussi!

Sgt. Mucci: "I don't care what was said, I have a problem with you carrying here, tonight."

I think that about says it all, doesn't it?

I used to have to work with people who made comments like that. It made me sick. :banghead:

 

[vrwmiller]

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TEX1N wrote:

vrwmiller wrote:

Citizen wrote:

Its entirely possible that both Mucci and Manager are giving less than truthful information.

I agree. Since it appears that it was the manager that initiated the call for service, I think the answer will come when a recording of the issuing complaint is heard.

I also agree on this point.

Although do we know if there was actually a call for service, or were the police already in the store and the manager verbally asked them for advice? I was a little confused as to how the police were "called" by the manager.

Good point. Not sure if there was a call for service. I'm sure we'll find out when the FOIA response is received.

 

[Tess]

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Well, we went to B&N, but not to that one - instead to Loisdale Plaza (near Springfield Mall). Spouse was concerned going to Potomac Yard would seem too in your face. I disagree, but ...

When we arrived, there were two cruisers in the parking lot, one with its lights on. Put us in to higher-than-normal alert mode, that's for sure. We went in, got coffee, wandered a lot, and left 45 min to an hour later. The cruisers were still there, and at least one officer was searching one of the cars in the parking lot. All I saw were two officers and one civilian, and I never did figure out what was going on.

Officers did notice our hardware as we were gearing up to get back on the bikes. Nothing said; only a couple of glances.

But then these are Fairfax County LEOs, and it seems they're much more aware than some.

 

[Virginiaplanter]

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I just had a chance to listen to the tape after resolving some technical difficulties. The officer on the tape is in fact the voice of tyranny. One could not better explain tyranny by a public servant than to state unequivically that her ethical decisions trump the Virginia Constitution, the Virginia General Assembly, and the Virginia Courts. She has substituted her opinion for the will of the people. She has become 'L'Etat, c'est moi. A one-bit dictator. She's not worth two bits.

You did a great public service by getting this on tape because people now know how the police are making up and enforcing their own laws.

Please post this persons name when you get the information.

 

[unrequited]

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Virginiaplanter wrote:

Please post this persons name when you get the information.

Sgt. Terri Mucci, it's lost somewhere in the long post.

As for the rest of the comments, thank you ALL very much for your support. I'm currently going over my options thanks to a bunch (too many? heh) of PMs and deciding what exactly to do next. I just wish my cell had more than 1 minute of record time, or that I had realized that beforehand and kept hitting record over and over.

 

[AbNo]

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Mr. Y wrote:

Hopefully, next time this happens they'll just tell the patrons - "Don't worry, that's our good friend Chris and several of his close friends.  They're really good guys".

Are you suggesting an Open Carry Reading Out? :lol:

 

[AbNo]

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unrequited wrote:

Virginiaplanter wrote:

Please post this persons name when you get the information.

Sgt. Terri Mucci, it's lost somewhere in the long post.

As for the rest of the comments, thank you ALL very much for your support. I'm currently going over my options thanks to a bunch (too many? heh) of PMs and deciding what exactly to do next. I just wish my cell had more than 1 minute of record time, or that I had realized that beforehand and kept hitting record over and over.

Should I get a can of Kiwi for him, as well? :lol:

And no problem, Unreq. We've got to back each other, you know?

BTW, how's things on that other board going?

 

[BIG SHAFE]

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AbNo wrote:

vrwmiller wrote:

unrequited wrote:

Something very bad?
That's why I went outside.

We didn't get to see the precipitating events that caused this to happen, so we don't know the full circumstances under which it occurred. However, not being LEO, it certainly seems their use of the taser was excessive. Of course other LEO may not think it was excessive.

Ok, short answer on this video....(yes, this is O/T, let's not comment anymore on this)

Kid was in Powell's library. Campus security notice he's acting up, ask him for ID. He refuses, gettting really smarmy and being a snot-nosed punk. They tell him to leave, he responds in a continually juvenile manner.

Campus security gets "real" cops, they tell him to leave or they will take him away. He's still being a smart-arse, and generally thinking it's a joke. They cuff him, and start taking him away, so he goes limp, drags his feet, and catches them on chair/table legs on the way out, trying to be cool.

The cops tell him if he doesn't cut it out, he's getting zapped. He tries to call their bluff.

They aren't bluffing.

So in the end, he ends up crying like a baby because he wanted to act tough.

Again, this is all O/T, so let's stick to Unrequited's post....

Where did you get this version from? The article didn't state anything similar to what you said. Wintesses said he was leaving and the cops grabbed him.

 

[sjhipple]

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BIG SHAFE wrote:

AbNo wrote:

vrwmiller wrote:

unrequited wrote:

Something very bad?
That's why I went outside.

We didn't get to see the precipitating events that caused this to happen, so we don't know the full circumstances under which it occurred. However, not being LEO, it certainly seems their use of the taser was excessive. Of course other LEO may not think it was excessive.

Ok, short answer on this video....(yes, this is O/T, let's not comment anymore on this)

Kid was in Powell's library. Campus security notice he's acting up, ask him for ID. He refuses, gettting really smarmy and being a snot-nosed punk. They tell him to leave, he responds in a continually juvenile manner.

Campus security gets "real" cops, they tell him to leave or they will take him away. He's still being a smart-arse, and generally thinking it's a joke. They cuff him, and start taking him away, so he goes limp, drags his feet, and catches them on chair/table legs on the way out, trying to be cool.

The cops tell him if he doesn't cut it out, he's getting zapped. He tries to call their bluff.

They aren't bluffing.

So in the end, he ends up crying like a baby because he wanted to act tough.

Again, this is all O/T, so let's stick to Unrequited's post....

Where did you get this version from? The article didn't state anything similar to what you said. Wintesses said he was leaving and the cops grabbed him.

People seem inclined to believe the cops when there's a dispute.

 

[nickerj1]

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From the video I gathered two bits of key information:

The Sgt Terri Mucci is female.

Chris was wearing flip flops.



Am I the only person that follows the 'Never wear shoes you can't run in.' self defense (preservation, in this case) policy?

 

[nickerj1]

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AbNo wrote:

Mr. Y wrote:

Hopefully, next time this happens they'll just tell the patrons - "Don't worry, that's our good friend Chris and several of his close friends. They're really good guys".

Are you suggesting an Open Carry Reading Out? :lol:

I'm there. :lol:

 

[Pa. Patriot]

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nickerj1 wrote:

Am I the only person that follows the 'Never wear shoes you can't run in.' self defense (preservation, in this case) policy?

Here's a "Me too"

Sandles are for the beach. Heck, I don't even wear sneakers out in public, boots all the way.