LEO issues

[Lovenox]

No. No resentment, no animosity, nothing...

I have a healthy regard for LEO....
I also have a healthy regard for myself, the truth and my way of life...

Therefore, I am cautious around LEO, naturally suspicious of there behavior and motive.

Those two sentences seem contradictory.

 

[BigDave]

Have an issue with being moderated take it up with the moderator for crying out loud.

Take stock in what you do and say and if it is something you cannot live with, well then later!

Back on Topic Now.

 

[gogodawgs]

<snip> Here is a link that sums up NYS gun laws. Toughest in the nation, besides D.C.
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/NYSL.pdf

This is a rhetorical question.... How are they the 'Toughest in the nation?'

Do they prevent gun crimes? Are the gun crime rates the lowest in the nation? No, No.

Therefore, they are the weakest gun laws in the nation.

 

[ronmanci]

This is a rhetorical question.... How are they the 'Toughest in the nation?'

Do they prevent gun crimes? Are the gun crime rates the lowest in the nation? No, No.

Therefore, they are the weakest gun laws in the nation.

Please don't analyze everything I say and twist it around to try to make me look bad. I think most people know what I mean. I did't say they were good laws. I did't say they work, and i did't say I advocate them. All I said is that they are tough....Why make something out of nothing?

 

[Deanimator]

oh, ok. gotcha. It just seemed like since a few cops messed up terribly, people think all cops are bad. but...it makes sense the way you put it

1. A certain percentage of LEOs misbehave, sometimes in horrifically criminal ways.
2. A significantly larger percentage of LEOs give at least lip service to those noted above.

The two points noted above make it insanely dangerous to "trust" an unknown LEO. There's NO benefit to my trusting a strange cop, and INFINITE danger in my doing so.

People therefore take whatever legal means are necessary to protect themselves from law enforcement.

"Trusting" all LEOs because [allegedly] "most" of them are on the up and up, is like a cop leaving his gun, vest and radio in the car during a 2:00am traffic stop on a deserted stretch of highway because most motorists aren't cop killers. Unfortunately, SOME are, just as some cops have utter contempt for the U.S. Constitution, the law, and citizens.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

I don't think that it's a case of getting ones comments moderated when they state an opinion about "a cop" but more a case of moderating comments like "All Cops are liars, not to be trusted, etc., etc." There are lots of threads that have addressed specific cops and their actions that have run their course with no moderation whatever.

Ahh so the moral is always cite a specific example.

Like the officer in LA who lied to cover up accidentally shooting himself
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-school-shooting-20110128,0,6106415.story?track=rss

Or this officer who was caught selling drugs
http://www.thetandd.com/news/local/...cle_954c9990-b558-11df-ae11-001cc4c03286.html

Or this officer accused of raping a transsexual prostitute while on duty (this cop is currently serving 1 year in jail)
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...ion-earnsex-cop-a-year-behind-bars-963942.php

Or the officers in Mill Creek caught having sex with each other while on duty
http://www.nwcn.com/news/washington/Cops-caught-having-sex-on-duty-on-city-time-106907904.html

Oh I'm just joking. I formed my opinion about police officers (in general) the old fashioned way, personal experience.

On one side of the coin police have:
Lied to me
Harassed me in a manner expressly against state law
Driven me around while the officer was off duty and totally drunk
Driven me around at 100+ MPH while officer was off duty, and in a hurry
Given me information as a witness that I should not have had, to help their case
Refused to investigate when I was the victim of a crime.
Lie in court, under oath. Yes I am 100% sure of this, I witnessed the original event, and the subsequent lie.

On one side of the coin police have:
Twice given me warnings when I should have received tickets. I file that under appropriate use of discretionary power.

So, if that's your experience over a lifetime, what do you think your 'general' view about police is going to be? Which side of that coin will most influence your 'general' view of police officers.

When I read the OP, my first thought was "Is this guy 18?" He needs to do some more living, and then he'll understand the complexity involved in the "LEO issue."

 

[ronmanci]

1. A certain percentage of LEOs misbehave, sometimes in horrifically criminal ways.
2. A significantly larger percentage of LEOs give at least lip service to those noted above.

The two points noted above make it insanely dangerous to "trust" an unknown LEO. There's NO benefit to my trusting a strange cop, and INFINITE danger in my doing so.

People therefore take whatever legal means are necessary to protect themselves from law enforcement.

"Trusting" all LEOs because [allegedly] "most" of them are on the up and up, is like a cop leaving his gun, vest and radio in the car during a 2:00am traffic stop on a deserted stretch of highway because most motorists aren't cop killers. Unfortunately, SOME are, just as some cops have utter contempt for the U.S. Constitution, the law, and citizens.

I pretty much agree with you.....I think?

I would be curious to know if you have any friends on the job? If so, do you trust them as a friend, and not trust them when they put on their uniform? Or do you never trust them, friend or not. Or maybe you might not want to have a LEO as a friend. Just curious how you feel about the person and not the job? Help me understand a little better.

 

[Deanimator]

veryone needs to remember that LEO's only enforce the laws.

When an Ohio cop threatens to arrest me for "inducing panic" because my firearm is inadvertently exposed, that's NOT "enforcing the law". That's MAKING IT UP.

I'll bet that easily 80% of the online complaints about LEOs involve incidents where cops either didn't know the law, made up the law, or EXPLICITLY said they didn't CARE about the law.

I have an ABSOLUTE duty to know the law, and no cop is going to want to hear otherwise from me.

If I walk into a liquor serving establishment, carrying, NO cop is going to give my claim that I "didn't know" that it was illegal a second's consideration. He's going to ARREST me. The idea that those tasked with [and allegedly trained in] ENFORCING the law have a LESSER duty to know it than any random citizen is utterly contemptible.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

Please don't analyze everything I say and twist it around to try to make me look bad. I think most people know what I mean. I did't say they were good laws. I did't say they work, and i did't say I advocate them. All I said is that they are tough....Why make something out of nothing?

Y I agree. But it is fun to point out that states with the worst gun laws, usually have the highest crime rates, and murders, and shootings.

Liberal anti-gunners, they never let facts and logic stay them from their course

 

[Dave_pro2a]

I pretty much agree with you.....I think?

I would be curious to know if you have any friends on the job? If so, do you trust them as a friend, and not trust them when they put on their uniform? Or do you never trust them, friend or not. Or maybe you might not want to have a LEO as a friend. Just curious how you feel about the person and not the job? Help me understand a little better.

I used to have several, I ended up not trusting them.

That loss of trust was based on unethical and illegal behavior on their part -- both on and off the job.

 

[Deanimator]

I pretty much agree with you.....I think?

I would be curious to know if you have any friends on the job? If so, do you trust them as a friend, and not trust them when they put on their uniform? Or do you never trust them, friend or not. Or maybe you might not want to have a LEO as a friend. Just curious how you feel about the person and not the job? Help me understand a little better.

I have in the past had friends who were LEOs. They were my friends for the same reason that anybody is my friend. Their values were compatible with my values and we shared some common interest(s). People don't get to be my FRIENDS, without my having a reasonably good understanding of what kind of person they are.

I would say that I am less likely to have an LEO as a friend, because a lot of LEOs I've seen and heard tend to express attitudes which offend me, especially regarding their need to respect the rule of law, and other issues, such as race. I wouldn't associate with over-the-road truck drivers or florists with similar attitudes either.

That having been said, if you're an LEO who doesn't think that he's above the law, or that certain races are superior or inferior to other races, and we have some interest(s) in common, you're as likely to be a friend of mine as anyone else.

 

[ronmanci]

I used to have several, I ended up not trusting them.

That loss of trust was based on unethical and illegal behavior on their part -- both on and off the job.

I wasn't asking you. I was asking the gentleman who's remarks I agreed with. Your opinion on trust is obvious. That would be like asking Santa Claus if he likes red.

 

[FMCDH]

I see this headed in a direction with a possibility of some misunderstanding or maybe not.
We are on two different coast and if I am not mistaken the point of view partially has to do with those officers that do not know the law and impose locker room talk or best guess to enforcement to those who know the law and enforce it.

<SNIP>

Thank you, if you didn’t say it, I was going to.

 

[ronmanci]

I have in the past had friends who were LEOs. They were my friends for the same reason that anybody is my friend. Their values were compatible with my values and we shared some common interest(s). People don't get to be my FRIENDS, without my having a reasonably good understanding of what kind of person they are.

I would say that I am less likely to have an LEO as a friend, because a lot of LEOs I've seen and heard tend to express attitudes which offend me, especially regarding their need to respect the rule of law, and other issues, such as race. I wouldn't associate with over-the-road truck drivers or florists with similar attitudes either.

That having been said, if you're an LEO who doesn't think that he's above the law, or that certain races are superior or inferior to other races, and we have some interest(s) in common, you're as likely to be a friend of mine as anyone else.

Thank you, I think your probably the majority. With any one really, your a friend until you betray that friendship. But, I know what you mean about the cop with the chip on his shoulder that thinks he is better then his friends and neighbors. I got to tell you though, that chip gets smaller and smaller over the years. Those guys learn VERY QUICKLY, that it makes the job 1000 times harder. If you can think of yourself as a salesmen trying to sell the law to a customer, you turn into a much nicer cop. And you go home much happier. Advice I got for my first Sgt, who himself retired after 36 years on the job. Remember, You will never hear about the good LEO's, but you will always remember the bad ones.

Thanks for responding.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

I wasn't asking you. I was asking the gentleman who's remarks I agreed with.

Welcome to the internet. This is a "forum."

 

[ronmanci]

I'm new to forums, but it amazes me how you can get a jist for someones personality, and almost imagine them in person, from what they type and how they choose to get their point across. Very entertaining stuff.

 

[ronmanci]

Are you trying to reenforce the stereotypes or what? You are saying that off of very little information you're willing to form an opinion. Sounds like the stereotypes you are trying to otherwise dismiss. no?

Yes, I found DEANIMATOR to be insightful, polite, cordial, and intelligent in his dialog. That would give me the idea that he is probably that way in person.

 

[Deanimator]

I dunno. Sounds like a serial killer to me :lol:

I don't know. I'm not sure I have the dedication...

 

[Bob Warden]

I'm not anti-cop; I'm anti-under-educated-power-tripping-not-adequately-accountable-armed-&-dangerous-government-sanctioned-&-funded-thug. Not all LEOs fit that description, but some do.

 

[Lammo]

Lammo-

Any reason you left Prosecutors off the above list? Recent events in Kirkland and Vancouver could lead one to believe that they also are misinformed or worse, have "agendas". This is even worse than when it's done by a LEO because the Prosecutors are supposed to know the law and apply it correctly.

Again, not all would fit in this category but the few that do are a big problem.

Only subconsciously because that would hit too close to home?** Not intended to be an exhaustive list but, sadly for me, prosecutors should definitely be included.


** For those who don't know I have been a prosecutor for 23 1/2 years.