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MKE Gal needs help with a lawyer

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
1,197
Location
, ,
I guess my point is, and I would like to direct this question to the Chairman, if the persons 4th admendment was violated due to the laws in your state, or was it soley due to the fact that a weapon was involved, are you willing to support your members in such a case?

If a persons rights are violated (with respect to carry rights) and our attorneys believe we have a case that we stand a reasonable chance to win which will set a precedent and deter other municipalities from violating rights, we will file it.

Even if the org will not support MKE

We have already offered a great deal of support. Just not financial at this stage for the reasons stated above.
 

Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
196,000 Google hits "Brookfield, WI, concealed, weapon, church"

I am amazed by the number of 196,000 Google hits "Brookfield, WI, concealed, weapon, church" and how many of them are misleading.

My anti-G00gle search engine has been shutdown by G00gle. I think G00gle gives different answers to different querying entities.
 
M

McX

Guest
dudes go it on their own, or with their friends. don't pick on girl open carriers in our state. we get testy about that, kinda like if someone picked on a black open carrier, we'd all be there. it's in the heart type of thing. we jumped for protias, we tend to jump for all.
 

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Now, again the way I see it, and what I have learned on the laws of your fine state, it is illegal to have a loaded weapon within your reach if you are transporting such a weapon. Correct?

It is illegal to have a loaded firearm in or on any vehicle which includes anything which can be driven ridden or towed down the road. You may have a firearm within your reach in a vehicle so long as it is not "hidden". You may not have a hidden firearm within your reach at any time outside of the vehicle or otherwise. Case law has carved out exceptions for in your home or business but there are no exceptions in the Statute as written which means that you would have to fight it in court and build a defense based on your right, which is affirmed by the Constitutions, (State and Federal) to bear arms and these established "exceptions".
 

Nutczak

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
2,165
Location
The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
I beleive Terry V. Ohio has the relevant caselaw for this situation

If I remember correctly in "Terry", a phoned-in tip does not make for probable cause, therefore the police involved in this situation had no reasonable/probable cause to make a traffic stop, enter, search, and seize, property from the persons vehicle!
If the police would have obeyed the law, ( the same laws they are entrusted to enforce) all they could have done is to observe the individual until they had personally witnessed something to corroborate the phoned-in tip.

So the way I see this is they violated MKEGRL's rights in several different fashions and used deadly weapons for a traffic stop with unsubstantiated evidence. the searched a vehicle with no probable cause, the seized property without a warrant or cause. This whole situation stinks to high heaven. Your rights have been violated, plain and simple.

MKE Grl, I may be able to make a donation to help you retain proper legal counsel, but!! You will need to go after the PD for the rights violations too, not just use it for for your own defense.
 

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
If I remember correctly in "Terry", a phoned-in tip does not make for probable cause, therefore the police involved in this situation had no reasonable/probable cause to make a traffic stop, enter, search, and seize, property from the persons vehicle!
If the police would have obeyed the law, ( the same laws they are entrusted to enforce) all they could have done is to observe the individual until they had personally witnessed something to corroborate the phoned-in tip.
The question remains whether their viewing the encased firearm on the seat of the vehicle along with the 911 complaint gives them RAS to open the case to inspect its contents.
 

zekester

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
664
Location
Uvalde, Texas
If a persons rights are violated (with respect to carry rights) and our attorneys believe we have a case that we stand a reasonable chance to win which will set a precedent and deter other municipalities from violating rights, we will file it.



We have already offered a great deal of support. Just not financial at this stage for the reasons stated above.

I was not implying that you would or will not offer support, I am sure that you are doing what you can, I was trying to say that your org may not beable to or willing to jump in at this time....but as a OC guy....we need to fight the battle and when it is your time to jump in,,,,I am sure you will do so....
 
Last edited:

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
1,197
Location
, ,
I was trying to say that your org may not beable to or willing to jump in at this time....but as a OC guy....we need to fight the battle and when it is your time to jump in,,,,I am sure you will do so....

Correct, despite how we would spend our organizations money if it were our own, we feel that we have an obligation to our members, out of fairness and principle to only spend money on things that set precedents and advance the cause, not just offer an individual person money for an attorney since we wouldn't have the money for every member if they got into legal trouble and needed an attorney.


When we have a situation where we think members may want to contribute (like a member who had his gun stolen) we can sometimes offer people the opportunity to donate specifically earmarked for that cause. That way general funds that we don't know members would want spent for individual persons benefit aren't used. We can facilitate that.

In this case however, there is already an option for people to donate for Krysta AND there are forum participants here online who are not WCI members who mistrust donating to an organization. (or at least our organization) for reasons known but to them. There is a avenue available for both those groups to donate that doesn't involve WCI.
 
M

McX

Guest
think of it this way; i saw some movie awhile back, forget the name, but it was pretty good; some huge uglies come marching out of the water, and into new york city. they're big and bad- wisconsin carry gets to take on them. then in the movie the big uglies got little faceless snappers falling off of them in droves, they hit the street and start biting- that's our job as members, to get the little snappers. wisconsin carry is doing their job, were doing ours. get the drift.
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
In regards to the WCI chairman's response as to why WCI does not prefer to get involved in a case such as that that member MKEgalis involved in. It appears but is not certain at this point that the firearm was indeed loaded. It is also not clear as to whether or not the firearm could have been loaded by the officers involved in the situation. tranger things have happened. In other words all of the facts of the case are not known so it is unfair for any of us to pass judgement at this time. Remember: "Innocent until proven guilty". If she is charged withunlawful transport of a firearm in a vehicle, that is a violation of statute 167.31(2)(b) which is a violation of statute but is not classified as a crime but as a citable offense, akin to a parking ticket. We don't even know if she was actually issued a citation. If she did and is found guilty her maximum penalty under current procedure is a fine of $217.50 and possible confiscation of weapon. Of course the legal costs can add considerably to this penalty as is generally the plight of contesting forfeiture violations. I don't condone intentional disregard of statutes but we don't know if her actions were intentional or inadvertant. If they were intentional I don't have much sympathy but on the other hand her case may be an opportunity to prove in court how unworkable the enforcement of 167.31(2)(b)is under current state and federal firearm rights concerning use of firearms for personal protection.

All that having been said there is a more serious issue centered around the case. That is the blatant violation of fourth amendment rights. At this time the details are not public knowledge but when they do become so I believe all of you will be disturbed as I am over the police conduct.

Finally in specific comment to the WCI chairman comments: Who are the "WE" in WCI. I visited the WCI website nd find no listing of the officers of the "Inc." Who are the people that are making all the policy decisions and what input to those decisions does the general membership have. Who are the "We" that determine how and when the membership monies are spent. Who are the "WE" that determine which incident are worthy of WCI support.

The mindset I see demonstrated in the Chairman's comment sadly smacks of the operating policies of the NRA.
 

springfield 1911

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
484
Location
Racine, Wisconsin, USA
think of it this way; i saw some movie awhile back, forget the name, but it was pretty good; some huge uglies come marching out of the water, and into new york city. they're big and bad- wisconsin carry gets to take on them. then in the movie the big uglies got little faceless snappers falling off of them in droves, they hit the street and start biting- that's our job as members, to get the little snappers. wisconsin carry is doing their job, were doing ours. get the drift.


what Mcx said.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Who are the "WE" that determine which incident are worthy of WCI support.

The mindset I see demonstrated in the Chairman's comment sadly smacks of the operating policies of the NRA.


Not to reuse a NRA slogan but "I am WCI".

To quote their website

Contact us
Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
P.O. Box 270403
Milwaukee, WI 53227

Milwaukee Area: Nik Clark, Charmain
Madison Area: Auric Gold, Secretary
La Crosse Area: Hubert Hoffman, Vice President
 

hardballer

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
925
Location
West Coast of Wisconsin
dudes go it on their own, or with their friends. don't pick on girl open carriers in our state. we get testy about that, kinda like if someone picked on a black open carrier, we'd all be there. it's in the heart type of thing. we jumped for protias, we tend to jump for all.

Plus 1,ooo,ooo!

MCX is spot on. Glad to call you Brother. Further, I see this as more a test of our grit than the possible case at hand. Glock, I'll stand with you on a line to defend your right to carry but I do not hold with your opinion on this. If making a mistake is reason enough to turn our backs on a brother or sister, what would this say about us. It is the solidarity of our group that makes us strong. Period.

This law concerning vehicle carry is supremely ignorant and dangerous. We are affectively unarmed when in our vehicle. Do car jackings happen in Milwaukee? I believe if they do, there is a case for being armed in your car in Milwaukee.

As for her mistake, if that's what it was, I would say that if you have never made an error, never carried past the plane of the door frame of the vehicle, never forgotten, never made a serious mistake yourself, you might be able to say something. I don't think so. Pride goeth before the fall. If it were your back against the wall, I'd have your six and so would just about everybody else on this board. You might reconsider your words concerning our sister open carrier.

Just remember, United we stand, divided we fall.

I sincerely hope we can change these incredibly stupid laws and the arrogant, fascist attitudes I hear coming from police, sheriffs and mayors of Wisconsin municipalities.

That being said, I also hope this is cleared and we can use it to further our cause.
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
Ok. I missed the "list" of officers hidden in the contact menu. I still question all decisions being made by two people and a mysterious lawyer and no input by members as to how their hard earned membeship monies are allocated. If they are incorporated as the name suggests then they have financial and expenditure accountabilities to their membership.

I am not intentionally doing WCI bashing. I agree with it's charter and respect the proactive approach it has taken. In a very short time it has gained national recognition of it's influence concerning Wisconsin gun rights. I am concerned on lack of membership opinion and what I perceive to be a "Do as we say because we know best" attitude. Paying membership fees with no influence is not a membership at all, it is simply a donation.
 

hardballer

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
925
Location
West Coast of Wisconsin
From Mrs Hardballer:

If these are the facts and she did carry a loaded pistol in a case on the front seat, without an illegal search and seizure, how would we know that? This would never have been a point of discussion. To be clear, from what we can ascertain, an illegal search and seizure occurred and that my friends should be the focus of this thread. Not what happened after the fact to the victim of an illegal stop, search and seizure. From what the victim says, the paper either mis-quoted or the church folk mis-spoke and the paper printed an inflammatory comment that in fact was never uttered and was denied having been said, by the victim.

What I see is a bunch of church goers coming down on an open carrier and then a bunch of police first stalking and then doing an illegal stop, search and seizure on an open carrier and then some open carriers feeding one of our family to the wolves. Mistakes are sometimes made and are unintended for many reasons unknown. To vilify and roll over on one of our own, the victim, is pretty sad.

Hardballer's wife out!
 

hardballer

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
925
Location
West Coast of Wisconsin
Ok. I missed the "list" of officers hidden in the contact menu. I still question all decisions being made by two people and a mysterious lawyer and no input by members as to how their hard earned membeship monies are allocated. If they are incorporated as the name suggests then they have financial and expenditure accountabilities to their membership.

I am not intentionally doing WCI bashing. I agree with it's charter and respect the proactive approach it has taken. In a very short time it has gained national recognition of it's influence concerning Wisconsin gun rights. I am concerned on lack of membership opinion and what I perceive to be a "Do as we say because we know best" attitude. Paying membership fees with no influence is not a membership at all, it is simply a donation.

I have to agree with Cap Nemo here. Some transparency is good. The membership does not; however, need every juicy detail, minute by minute. WCI was brought to life by the tireless effort of a few good OCers who had a vision. It is sometimes difficult to open up or let go. There will be some teething and growing pains but overall, I am pleased to be part of WCI and if they are getting results that have my best interest at heart, I am all for it. As to the playing close to the vest with MKEGal, I am fine with that.

We don't all have to be privy to everything that is happening as long as it is not illegal or opposed to our best interest. I would hate to see things go the way the NRA has gone. I no longer support that group and will not now or in the near future. The same will be true here if WCI strays off the track. Vote with your dollars.

As for me, I will support them and their efforts 100% at this time.
 

bnhcomputing

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
1,709
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Ok. I missed the "list" of officers hidden in the contact menu. I still question all decisions being made by two people and a mysterious lawyer and no input by members as to how their hard earned membeship monies are allocated. If they are incorporated as the name suggests then they have financial and expenditure accountabilities to their membership.

I am not intentionally doing WCI bashing. I agree with it's charter and respect the proactive approach it has taken. In a very short time it has gained national recognition of it's influence concerning Wisconsin gun rights. I am concerned on lack of membership opinion and what I perceive to be a "Do as we say because we know best" attitude. Paying membership fees with no influence is not a membership at all, it is simply a donation.

Nemo:

First, WCI is indeed incorporated in WI: https://www.wdfi.org/apps/CorpSearc...b24d54ab6d&type=Simple&q=Wisconsin+Carry,+Inc.

Second, as with any entity, day-to-day operational decisions are made by the corporate officers. The corporate officers are selected by the BOD, and the members select the BOD.
 
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