Negative LEO/IKEA Encounter

[wally1120]

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You arn`t kidding about that. I would do everything it took to file a lawsuit if I have another detainment.

 

[Kimberguy]

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wally1120 wrote:

You arn`t kidding about that. I would do everything it took to file a lawsuit if I have another detainment.

oh my dear friend, you get riled up far to easily. Jackson is making great headway, in my oppinion we are taking leaps and bounds.

but we aren't doing it through threats, we are doing it with tact. Believe me my friend, there are things that set me off, ask anyone who knows me, but we have to be careful how we handle them.

remember Matthew 10:16(BBE)

"See, I send you out as sheep among wolves. Be then as wise as snakes, and as gentle as doves."

 

[Tao]

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Tagging for updates and a response from IKEA.

I would certainly shed no tears for that employee, especially in this economy, if they got fired. Our money is just as green as anyone else's.

 

[Bronson]

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Hey T,

I'm not a bettin' man but if I was I'd lay good money they ran your license plate number after you left. With no RAS this may be an inappropriate access of the LEIN system.

You can get the info on filing a complaint with the MSP here: http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1589_1878_8311-16246--,00.html

Bronson

 

[OC4me]

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If an LEO tells you to leave a business are you then required to leave? Or does the request to leave actually have to be made by an employee of the business?

What if the LEO claims to be passing on the 'message' on behalf of an employee? In cases where an LEO fibs, it would be nice to call his/her bluff, but what does the law say about trespass notification in Michigan?

 

[autosurgeon]

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The property owner or their agent IE employee ...manager has to make the request to you.

 

[warrior1978]

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OC4me wrote:

If an LEO tells you to leave a business are you then required to leave? Or does the request to leave actually have to be made by an employee of the business?

What if the LEO claims to be passing on the 'message' on behalf of an employee? In cases where an LEO fibs, it would be nice to call his/her bluff, but what does the law say about trespass notification in Michigan?

A LEO does not need reasonable suspicion to run a plate through LEIN. So long as the inquiry is not made for personal gain, it is not unlawful for a LEO to sit in a parking lot and run multiple license plates for no other reason than to ensure plates are valid and not stolen.

Running a plate is not a search and seizure.

 

[hopnpop]

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OC4me wrote:

If an LEO tells you to leave a business are you then required to leave? Or does the request to leave actually have to be made by an employee of the business?

What if the LEO claims to be passing on the 'message' on behalf of an employee? In cases where an LEO fibs, it would be nice to call his/her bluff, but what does the law say about trespass notification in Michigan?

Tough call. If an LEO tells you to leave, I'm sure that you must leave or you'll be getting cited for trespass. Whether a manager or employee had them ask you to leave would have to be determined later. At the time, tho, if you refused to leave I'm sure you'd be leaving in cuffs.

If an LEO were lying about being requested to ask you to leave, I don't know how you'd identify it as a bluff. Plus, the cost of being wrong would be great, resulting in a free ride to the lock-up. Not a highwire I'm willing to walk.

I'd certainly think that an LEO could tell you to leave, speaking for a manager or employee. As far as them asking you to leave the premises without having been asked to by a manager/employee, I don't know. I would think that they probably have the authority to do so but I'm not 100% certain.

I can think of domestic cases where no crime was witnessed but a resident was still asked to leave (his own home) and not return. So I don't know...

 

[Springfield Smitty]

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The difference is between being "asked" to leave and being "told" to leave. This is another situation where a follow-up question might be asked, as in "WASH, RINSE, REPEAT."

EDIT TO ADD: As others have stated, no PC or RAS is needed to run registration. This is how many stolen cars and plates are actually found, by random registration checks. This often will lead to other crimes being discovered as well (drugs, other stolen goods, DUI, etc.).

 

[cabman1]

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Kimberguy wrote:

wally1120 wrote:

You arn`t kidding about that. I would do everything it took to file a lawsuit if I have another detainment.

oh my dear friend, you get riled up far to easily.  Jackson is making great headway, in my oppinion we are taking leaps and bounds.

but we aren't doing it through threats, we are doing it with tact.  Believe me my friend, there are things that set me off, ask anyone who knows me, but we have to be careful how we handle them.

remember Matthew 10:16(BBE)

"See, I send you out as sheep among wolves. Be then as wise as snakes, and as gentle as doves."

Amen my brother 'testify'

 

[Venator]

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Springfield Smitty wrote:

The difference is between being "asked" to leave and being "told" to leave. This is another situation where a follow-up question might be asked, as in "WASH, RINSE, REPEAT."

EDIT TO ADD: As others have stated, no PC or RAS is needed to run registration. This is how many stolen cars and plates are actually found, by random registration checks. This often will lead to other crimes being discovered as well (drugs, other stolen goods, DUI, etc.).

If the officer can see the serial number when the gun is in aholster on your hip then he can runthe numbers. He can not unlawfully seize a handgun to run the numbers. Big difference.

Your example about cars is very different. The office can "in plain view" gather information...like a licence plate, he can not manipulate an item to gain a better view of something. For instance he could not remove a tarp from a vehicle in your yard to run the plate without RAS or PC or a warrant.A plate on a car in plain view is fair game, a serial number on your hip is not, unless he seizes the firearm lawfully.

I wonder what will happen when a LEO runs a seized gunof a CPL holder and it comes back registered to someone else. I bet not many LEO's know that it is now legal for a CPL holder to carry another's lawful handgun.

 

[WARCHILD]

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I wonder what will happen when a LEO runs a seized gunof a CPL holder and it comes back registered to someone else.

This issue is what got the Corunna police chief so excited, (Home Depot incident). He thought he had me for sure because they were misinformed the gun was in my brother's name. Even the state trooper didn't know (??) I didn't have to own it. Hence they called the PA of Corunna to find out.

 

[wally1120]

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I know Im going to the top with my comment, But I have a cops saying a bunch of crap about me for years and I dont like cops,I know several and hate them all with the equal passion.

 

[DrTodd]

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hopnpop wrote:

OC4me wrote:

If an LEO tells you to leave a business are you then required to leave? Or does the request to leave actually have to be made by an employee of the business?

What if the LEO claims to be passing on the 'message' on behalf of an employee? In cases where an LEO fibs, it would be nice to call his/her bluff, but what does the law say about trespass notification in Michigan?

Tough call. If an LEO tells you to leave, I'm sure that you must leave or you'll be getting cited for trespass. Whether a manager or employee had them ask you to leave would have to be determined later. At the time, tho, if you refused to leave I'm sure you'd be leaving in cuffs.

If an LEO were lying about being requested to ask you to leave, I don't know how you'd identify it as a bluff. Plus, the cost of being wrong would be great, resulting in a free ride to the lock-up. Not a highwire I'm willing to walk.

I'd certainly think that an LEO could tell you to leave, speaking for a manager or employee. As far as them asking you to leave the premises without having been asked to by a manager/employee, I don't know. I would think that they probably have the authority to do so but I'm not 100% certain.

I can think of domestic cases where no crime was witnessed but a resident was still asked to leave (his own home) and not return. So I don't know...

Usually they ask that you leave as more of a "suggestion" than a lawful command. If you look through the mountain of information on the net concerning domestic assault and the whole personal protection order issue in Michigan, it may be wise to head their advice on this one.

 

[WARCHILD]

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[DrTodd]

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Wally1120,

I think that it is up to the particular denomination as to what constitutes "training" for ordination. As WARCHILD so aptly stated, it would be better to put a question such as this in a PM.

 

[Evil Creamsicle]

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mikestilly wrote:

T Vance wrote:

Mike wrote:

T Vance wrote:
Just be prepared to be there for 3 hours, or several visits before the police are actually called on you...

Are they not posted? Ikea in Virginia of I-95 was posted last time I went

I've never been to an Ikea. I've only heard people talking wildly about it. Considering that we are a long ways out from being able to afford furniture it gives me a good reason to go searching for replacements. Anyone want to join us? We'll pick a weekend where we can spend a long time there.

mikestilly if you still want to do this, I live quite literally like 800 feet from this Canton IKEA... I'd be happy to tag along

 

[T Vance]

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.

 

[dougwg]

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T Vance wrote:

Could someone that lives near the IKEA in Canton at least swing by and see if they have a "No Firearms" sign anywhere? Hell, they could have even put one up since Saturday.

NO, DO NOT POST IF THEY HAVE A SIGN.

Don't you get it? If you know there's a sign and you know that firearms are not welcome and you still enter then you ARE trespassing. Because you are being notified that you are not welcome.

If you don't know if there's a sign then they must notify you that you are not welcome with your gun and ask you to leave before it's trespass.

If you post here that they have a sign it put EVERYONE on notice and I'm sure they could get a trespass charge to stick.

If you are ignorant of their wishes you are safe. If you have knowledge of their wishes and disregard them.....

This could be a gray area, but like I have said in the past, lets try to stay out of gray areas if we can.

Nothing can be gained by posting if they have a sign but there is a possibility of something bad happening if it is posted here.

 

[mikestilly]

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I agree with Doug. It's key we avoid at all costs putting anyone in the way of even possibly being convicted of a crime. It amazes me how many gray areas are out there. For instance IWB holsters. If you don't have a CPL why risk getting charged with a possible CCW if you can just avoid the holster until you acquire a CPL. I'd really like to make a list of gray areas.

I'm currently working on a user friendly document that displays in every day English how to be legally compliant starting from OC no CPL, to OC w/ CPL, and concealed with a CPL. I find myself constantly forgetting and having to weed through legal mumbojumo to remember key things. I would think others have the same issue. Once I complete it I would like some more experienced eyeballs on it to weed out any errors or omissions. Hopefully this is something that could make it easier for others and could possibly be posted if others are interested. I'm also creating business card lamented with one side the basic Do's and Dont's when OC'ing with a CPL on the other side Concealing /w CPL. Maybe it's my paranoia and anal retentiveness showing I guess it make's me feel more comfortable and if it can help others I'd be happy to share.