OC in Alexandria, VA

[XD Owner]

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I received a letter of apology from the Virginia Commissioner of the Department of Motor Vehicles, D.B. Smit.

The relevant paragraphs of the letter read as follows:

“If an individual is observed carrying a firearm in a DMV Office and is acting in a non-threatening manner, it is DMV policy to notify the security officer on duty at that time. The security officer and DMV personnel are to observe the individual, but no action is to be taken.



Neither DMV personnel nor the security officer are to approach the individual or contact local law enforcement without first contacting DMV Law Enforcement Services. Unfortunately, the manager of the Alexandria officer and the security officer on duty failed to follow established procedures, and contacted local law enforcement instead. I apologize for this but can assure you they took this action only because they were concerned about the potential safety of our employees and customers. Please be assured that we have taken steps to ensure that all security officers and DMV personnel are aware of the procedures to follows in situations such as yours.”

I have not seen the written response from the Alexandria Police Department since I am currently overseas. My better half says she got a letter requesting $20 to pay for my Freedom of Information Act request. I am waiting to get the actual letter and will then decide what to do. My first impression is that it would be a waste of money.

Attached is a copy of the two page letter. I hope you find this useful in case anything similar happens. I didn't even know there was such a thing as DMV Law Enforcement Services.

If a security guard approaches you, just say he is violating DMV policy and to contact DMV Law Enforcement Services per the established procedures. I will assume that everyone here acts in a non-threatening manner.

I still can't believe that titling a vehicle purchased at the end of the lease is a complicated transaction. (Sorry, getting off subject here.)

 

[XD Owner]

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The letter, page 1.

 

[XD Owner]

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page 2 (last page)

 

[Mike]

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XD Owner wrote:

I have not seen the written response from the Alexandria Police Department since I am currently overseas. My better half says she got a letter requesting $20 to pay for my Freedom of Information Act request. I am waiting to get the actual letter and will then decide what to do. My first impression is that it would be a waste of money.

Alexandria cannot refuse to answer the FOIA request until you pay $20. Make them give you the records first.

But it can charge you resaonable fees. What on earth did you ask for that would cost $20 to search for?

 

[SicSemperTyrannis]

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I'd send a copy of the letter from DMV to the police department. Include a cover letter. The DMV letter was quite educational, and you would be doing the police department a favor to share with them that DMVsays itsown polcies were not followed and the police should not have been called.

Also, do not pay $20 upfront. Make them send you theinformation first.

 

[razorblade]

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SicSemperTyrannis wrote:

I'd send a copy of the letter from DMV to the police department. Include a cover letter. The DMV letter was quite educational, and you would be doing the police department a favor to share with them that DMVsays itsown polcies were not followed and the police should not have been called.

Sounds like a good idea. In the event this ever happens again (and it probably will), hopefully the dispacher can curtail everything by asking "did you follow ALL of your procedures before calling us?" and "is the person with the gun acting in a threating manner?"

Ether way, it's always good to see the appology letter did come. Although, a bit too late for it to be considered sincere. (shrugs shoulders)

 

[XD Owner]

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Thanks for the comments. Does anyone feel I can sue for violation of my civil rights? Any time limit to file suit? I appreciate any ideas people have on that score. I seriously believe that only imposition of monetary damages will get this city to change its attitude towards lawful gun owners.

I am temporarily back in Alexandria and would like to share the following experience I had today at City Hall.

I walked in and paid a personal property tax bill in OC mode. No reaction. Went to the Real Estate Assessments office for some business. No reaction. Went to the Mayor's Office to ask for information about the Mayor's recent joining of Mayor Bloomberg's anti-gun coalition. I had sent an email earlier in the month asking about it but had not received a response. A receptionist went to get one of the Mayor's Aides, Beth Temple.

I asked her if any money was spent by the city for this initiative, or if the Mayor was going to travel to New York. She assured me that no taxpayer funds were spent, no travel is involvedand that the Mayor simply agreed with Mayor Bloomberg so he signed the petition.

I told her that I am glad that no moneywas spent because it would be a waste of taxpayers' money. I then nodded toward my gun in its holster and said as you can see I believe very strongly in the Second Amendment and that I enjoy exercising my rights in the great state of Virginia. Furthermore, I said that guns are not evil, but it is the evil people behind the guns that are causing the problems."

She then took two steps back, put her hands behind her back and said twice that she would convey my views to the Mayor.

Personally, I found it kind of funny. On the other hand, it was kind of sad. I could sense her fear-meter shooting up, but I paid her no mind, thanked her for her time, and wished her a pleasant day.

I was almost disappointed that cops didn't show up to check me out.

OC every day in every possible venue and way!

 

[Mike]

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I don't see where you have any damages - maybe I have lost track of your story though and am missing important facts.

In any event, we do have one part of the police HQ there in Alexadnria where they questionably ban gun carry - allegedly the office connects to a courthouse?

Now that might be worth investigating some more.:lol:

 

[XD Owner]

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$20 is for staff time and reproduction costs. I paid. If there is anything juicy in their response, I'll let you know.

 

[XD Owner]

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Mike wrote:

I don't see where you have any damages - maybe I have lost track of your story though and am missing important facts.

In any event, we do have one part of the police HQ there in Alexadnria where they questionably ban gun carry - allegedly the office connects to a courthouse?

Now that might be worth investigating some more.:lol:

There was no visible damage a la Rodney King. It was emotional anguish, mental pain and suffering, all that sort of tortious stuff. To wit: I was detained against my will for several minutes, and I felt threatened by the police officer who had his hand on his pistol for no good reason as he faced me and prevented me from rejoining my wife in the DMV waiting room. Anyone think I have a chance winning in court?



XD Owner vs. Alexandria - how would you vote?

 

[DoubleR]

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Glad to see you back, XD. As for legal action - Unless you have endless time and a bottomless pit full of $$ - spend it at the Range , You'll be much better off.

 

[razorblade]

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I don't want to stur the pot, so please don't take my rant seriously, I'm merely venting.

The only way you can get this city to take our Rights seriously, is to file a lawsuit. When you hit 'em where it counts, they'll listen. If you want to get the bull's attention, you put down your red cape and hit him across the nose with a 2X4.

With that being said, I don't think honestly you have a legal leg to stand on. Now mind you, I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you really can file a lawsuit for "pain and suffering", unless you developed a mental breakdown and had to be institutionalized as a result of the incident (and have papers from the institution to prove it). Otherwise, everyone that goes to court and sue's for punitive damages can tack on pain and suffering. But then again, i'm only getting this from my observations from Judge Judy and the People's Court.

Whatever happens, i don't want to see this as being "swept under the rug". this ISN'T a police state, and regardless of WHO the police are questioning(interrorgating?) or detaining, we have rights. We have the right to be spoken to in a respectful manner without intimidation. We have the right to exercise state Right's regardless of what a desk supervisor or a rookie cop fresh from the acamedy assumes. We have the right to have a situation we are involved in to be handled with the same amount of "threat" we are presenting. Idealy, in a perfect world, the situation would have been for the cops to arrive, assess the situation by casually speaking to you (to gather some insight of your mindset/intentions), speak to the desk manager and asked him what he observed that warrented them to be called out, and then leave. I was suprised that at the very least, they didn't pull you aside and speak to you privately.

Anyways, I get really upset when I hear about people being harrassed by authority figures for any reason. Have you spoken to Mr. Van Clef at VCDL on this matter? He might have some advice for you.

Oh yeah, good to see you're back in Alexandria, only if it's for a little while.

 

[XD Owner]

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OC'd at Reagan National Airport passenger pickup area for about 30 seconds, the amount of time to get out of my vehicle, put a suitcase in the back, and get back in my vehicle.

Police were too far away to see me, but other arriving passengers waiting by the curb probably saw, if they weren't oblivious. I also made sure I drove to and from on Rte. 1/Crystal City. I believe the George Washington Parkway is a National Park, so it would be "illegal" for me to drive there with my gun, yes? Stupid law is unconstitutional though if you ask me. :cuss:

 

[razorblade]

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XD Owner wrote:

I believe the George Washington Parkway is a National Park, so it would be "illegal" for me to drive there with my gun, yes?

I was told the same thing.

 

[Tess]

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razorblade wrote:

XD Owner wrote:

I believe the George Washington Parkway is a National Park, so it would be "illegal" for me to drive there with my gun, yes?

I was told the same thing.

I just checked the official National Parks page, including the "Parks by State" and selected Virginia.

The GW Parkway is not listed. Only Shenandoah NP is listed in Virginia.

Am I missing something?

 

[XD Owner]

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I asked the question by e-mail at http://www.nps.gov/NCR/sendmail.htm?o=%3B3%29%2B6JZ%2B%20NJR1J1JA%5B1%2AEJ4%3E34J%5D2II%5F16%21%22X%0A&r=/gwmp/index.htm

TEXT: I like using the GW Parkway (bike riding and by car), and I am also a gun owner who sometimes likes to carry my pistol. For the record, I have a Commonwealth of Virginia Concealed Handgun Permit. Are these two activities incompatible? Am I permitted to carry a concealed weapon on GW Parkway property? I do not want to break any laws, and this website does not answer my question. The list below makes me wonder, are personal firearms allowed in some/all/or none of these areas below?

The Parkway is made up of many sites, including:

Arlington House: The Robert E. Lee Memorial
Belle Haven Park & Marina
Clara Barton National Historic Site
Collingwood Park
Columbia Island Marina
Daingerfield Island
Dyke Marsh Wildlife Preserve
Fort Hunt Park
Fort Marcy
Glen Echo Park
Gravelly Point
Great Falls Park
Lady Bird Johnson Park
Lyndon Baines Johnson Memorial Grove-on-the-Potomac
Memorial Avenue
Mount Vernon Trail
Netherlands Carillon
Potomac Heritage Trail
Riverside Park
Roaches Run Wildlife Sanctuary
Theodore Roosevelt Island
Turkey Run Park
U.S. Marine Corps War Memorial
Washington Sailing Marina

Thank you.

[name]
Alexandria, VA


If they say yes, then that would also apply to Open Carry I presume. If they say no, write your Senators and Representatives. Gun-free National Parks do not make them crime-free.

 

[Mike]

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Yes the parkway is covered by reg 2.4. Guns are banned, unless uloaded, rendered inoperable,and encased in your car.

Allen did little or nothing to help us.

Consider voting for Webb.

 

[Tess]

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XD Owner wrote:

I asked the question by e-mail at http://www.nps.gov/NCR/sendmail.htm?o=%3B3%29%2B6JZ%2B%20NJR1J1JA%5B1%2AEJ4%3E34J%5D2II%5F16%21%22X%0A&r=/gwmp/index.htm

TEXT: I like using the GW Parkway (bike riding and by car), and I am also a gun owner who sometimes likes to carry my pistol. For the record, I have a Commonwealth of Virginia Concealed Handgun Permit. Are these two activities incompatible? Am I permitted to carry a concealed weapon on GW Parkway property? I do not want to break any laws, and this website does not answer my question. The list below makes me wonder, are personal firearms allowed in some/all/or none of these areas below?

The Parkway is made up of many sites, including:

Arlington House: The Robert E. Lee Memorial
Belle Haven Park & Marina
Clara Barton National Historic Site
Collingwood Park
Columbia Island Marina
Daingerfield Island
Dyke Marsh Wildlife Preserve
Fort Hunt Park
Fort Marcy
Glen Echo Park
Gravelly Point
Great Falls Park
Lady Bird Johnson Park
Lyndon Baines Johnson Memorial Grove-on-the-Potomac
Memorial Avenue
Mount Vernon Trail
Netherlands Carillon
Potomac Heritage Trail
Riverside Park
Roaches Run Wildlife Sanctuary
Theodore Roosevelt Island
Turkey Run Park
U.S. Marine Corps War Memorial
Washington Sailing Marina

Thank you.

[name]
Alexandria, VA


If they say yes, then that would also apply to Open Carry I presume. If they say no, write your Senators and Representatives. Gun-free National Parks do not make them crime-free.

I still don't get it. None of these are national parks. I'll be very interested in hearing the response. I'd hate to have to take US1 (which is MUCH more dangerous) just so I can carry. Of course, on many parts of US1 I sure WANT to be carrying.

 

[longwatch]

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Check out this map of the area, all those sites are NPS land, and the proof is that they are patrolled by the US Park Police. Yet it is very easy to land in a no carry zone. You get a traffic ticket on the Parkway you have to go to the federal courthouse in Alexandria to take care of it. I hope we will see some action on the petition for rule change real soon.

Click here

 

[XD Owner]

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1130 EST 11/06/06

Just spoke to Sgt. Gott, District 2, National Park Service since the e-mail did not work (no such address). He replied that per 36 CFR 2.4, weapons are prohibited even if I have a Virginia CHP.

See http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/julqtr/36cfr2.4.htm

for the full text. Below are some excerpts.

TITLE 36--PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY

CHAPTER I--NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

PART 2_RESOURCE PROTECTION, PUBLIC USE AND RECREATION--Table of Contents

Sec. 2.4 Weapons, traps and nets.

(a)(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section and parts 7
(special regulations) and 13 (Alaska regulations), the following are
prohibited:
(i) Possessing a weapon, trap or net
...

(3) Traps, nets and unloaded weapons may be possessed within a
temporary

[[Page 20]]

lodging or mechanical mode of conveyance when such implements are
rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased or stored in a
manner that will prevent their ready use.
(b) Carrying or possessing a loaded weapon in a motor vehicle,
vessel or other mode of transportation is prohibited, except that
carrying or possessing a loaded weapon in a vessel is allowed when such
vessel is not being propelled by machinery and is used as a shooting
platform in accordance with Federal and State law.

...

(g) The regulations contained in this section apply, regardless of
land ownership, on all lands and waters within a park area that are
under the legislative jurisdiction of the United States.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great, I am sure the criminals growing marijuana in National Parks are going to walk around unarmed!!

I was told that this was enforced at the officer's discretion, so I take it to mean if you were caught speeding but you acted really nice, they might only give you a warning about carrying an operableweapon.

Anyway, now we know. I asked the Sergeant to get this information posted. Now I am calling my Senators to ask them to repeal this inane regulation.