Plaxico Burress Shoots him self...

[Alexcabbie]

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And STILL the Deadskins lose to the Giants. Really, no proper holster with a gun like a Glock equals thinning the herd. Glock is a fine weapon, just one I wouldn't carry deep-concealed let alone shoved down my pants Gangsta-style.

Of course the Brady bunch are going to be all over this like a cheap suit. Personally I think that an ND ought to be a criminal charge, not carrying. Ol' Plexi is guilty of criminal stupidity while armed. Besides I thought all these clubs had metal detectors at the door.

IMO there is no such thing as an "accidental discharge" unless the weapon had a mechanical defect and was pointed downrange at a shooting facility. An "accdental" discharge that results in injury is very very rare. Show me a guy with a bullet wound and I'll show you the victim of a justifiable discharge, a crminal discharge, or a negligent discharge, 99.999% of the time. All but the first should be unlawful as well.

 

[LiveFreeOrDie]

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IrRelevant wrote:

I hope they charge him with illegal posession of a concealed weapon within the nightclub. AndI hope they charge him with illegal posession of a firearm in NYC anyway. Discuss...

You sound like one of the gun grabbers yourself.

If he was negligent (and it sounds like he was), charge him for that. Don't charge him with a victimless crime.

 

[Overtaxed]

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LiveFreeOrDie wrote:

IrRelevant wrote:

I hope they charge him with illegal posession of a concealed weapon within the nightclub. AndI hope they charge him with illegal posession of a firearm in NYC anyway. Discuss...

You sound like one of the gun grabbers yourself.

If he was negligent (and it sounds like he was), charge him for that. Don't charge him with a victimless crime.

This is a great example of the potential power of jury nullification - find him guilty of endangerment, etc. but not of illegal possession/carry. But jury nullification is hardly ever brought to bear.

As for those who want to see Plaxico indicted and convicted for illegal possession, I think it has more to do with wanting him to receive the same treatment the rest of us would face, rather than the usual "celebrity treatment" that others in that situation get, like P. Diddy, etc, rather than agreeing with NYC's carry/possession laws.


Edit: PS... I benefitted from a gross pricing error at a local Crate and Barrel (I legitimately thought they were clearance items, until the woman at the counter explained that the person who mis-marked them was going to get into big trouble for the mistake) She laughed when I said, "oh, so they pulled a Plaxico, but with a price gun"

 

[Prophet]

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Personally I want NYC to throw the book at him. No deals, no pleas...3.5 years mandatory minimum. There's a 25 year max they can put on him I believe. Maybe 15.

Now, hear me out. Unlike the majority of us, Burress is a MILLIONAIRE who can afford to push this issue higher and higher until he wins. Bloomberg is a gun grabbing maniac who will continue to push this higher and higher untilHE wins. Ultimately, it goes to the Supreme court. Of course Kennedy is a toss up but its not gonna get any easier with obama appointments so now may be the time for incorporation of the second amendment and the elimination of all gun bans in America.

If I was a millionaire NFL player I would welcome the fight. (In that being a NFL player i was still my 2A defending self)

 

[LiveFreeOrDie]

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No. That is not who we want as the face of the 2nd Amendment at the Supreme Court. Let the NRA or whoever handpick the plaintiffs.

 

[Tomahawk]

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http://www.lewrockwell.com/kramer/kramer22.html

[font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"][font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"]The Persecution of PlaxicoBurress[/font][/font]
[align=center][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"][font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"]by Johnny Kramer[/font][/font][/align]

 

[marshaul]

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Doug Huffman wrote:

It should be enough but there is that adjectival phrase, 'invincibly ignorant'!

Kind'a like the irresistible force paradox is can the omnipotent overcome invincible ignorance?

Ah, but the paradox is a logical fallacy, and similarly either a self-sustained leg injury by ND isn't omnipotent in its teaching ability or "invincible" ignorance isn't immutable after all.

I prefer to hope the latter is the case. We all must accept the reality that occasionally the former is true.

 

[marshaul]

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Tomahawk wrote:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/kramer/kramer22.html

[font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"][font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"]The Persecution of Plaxico Burress[/font][/font]
[align=center][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"][font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"]by Johnny Kramer[/font][/font][/align]

+1 for Johnny Kramer

 

[Prophet]

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LiveFreeOrDie wrote:

No. That is not who we want as the face of the 2nd Amendment at the Supreme Court. Let the NRA or whoever handpick the plaintiffs.

Why not? He's never been in trouble with the law before this and the only reason he is in trouble is because of some Stalin-esque gun grabbing measures by Bloomberg. Hell, I don't care if they overturn the gun ban based solely on the fact that he's black as long as it gets overturned. What do you know that makes you think Burress isn't a good enough guy that he can't represent gun owners? Just because he has trouble at work occassionally with his bosses? Who hasn't.

And if the NRA was going to do something about the ban they would have all ready. If they were serious then Wayne LaPierre would be OC'ing down in Times Square everyday until he was arrested.

 

[LiveFreeOrDie]

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Prophet wrote:

And if the NRA was going to do something about the ban they would have all ready. If they were serious then Wayne LaPierre would be OC'ing down in Times Square everyday until he was arrested.

Oh really? How about this? If YOU are serious about gun freedom, let YOUR license to carry a firearm expire and then OC in your own Philadelphia. Then spout off about how others aren't getting arrested for the cause. :quirky

 

[Alexcabbie]

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Mayor Bloomberg is an abomination. I would like to have a cage match with him AND that joker Al Franken. Bloomberg is the ONE politician I would like to give a throat full of bloody chicklets to. I would never shoot him (or Franken), I would rather he feel the ol' Indiana Soup Bone up close and personal. The man infuriates me (duh).

 

[Alexcabbie]

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Mayor Bloomberg is an abomination. I would like to have a cage match with him AND that joker Al Franken. Bloomberg is the ONE politician I would like to give a throat full of bloody chicklets to. I would never shoot him (or Franken), I would rather he feel the ol' Indiana Soup Bone up close and personal. The man infuriates me (duh).

 

[deepdiver]

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Tomahawk wrote:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/kramer/kramer22.html

[font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"][font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"]The Persecution of PlaxicoBurress[/font][/font]
[align=center][font="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"][font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"]by Johnny Kramer[/font][/font][/align]

I enjoyed the article, especially the last section.

"'If we don't prosecute [him] to the fullest extent of the law, I don't know who on Earth we would,' Bloomberg said. 'It makes a sham, a mockery of the law..."

Well, considering that Bloomberg has made a sham, a mockery of the US Constitution I guess he would know what he is talking about. What a piece of, er, work.

 

[Prophet]

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LiveFreeOrDie wrote:

Prophet wrote:

And if the NRA was going to do something about the ban they would have all ready. If they were serious then Wayne LaPierre would be OC'ing down in Times Square everyday until he was arrested.

Oh really? How about this? If YOU are serious about gun freedom, let YOUR license to carry a firearm expire and then OC in your own Philadelphia. Then spout off about how others aren't getting arrested for the cause. :quirky

Have the NRA pay me $700,000 then I would be happy to. That's what LaPierre roughly makes from his salary. He can afford the legal fight...as can Plaxico Burress. I didn't spout off about others not getting arrested, i spouted off about how a guy who DID get arrested, is a MILLIONAIRE, and FAMOUS therefore it was not quietly brushed under the carpet by the liberal press. If it were any of us no one in this country would have heard from us in 3.5 to 15 years. But since Mr. Burress is rich and famoush (as is Mr. LaPierre) then maybe, since they don't have criminal records they are the perfect test subjects to take a case to the highest court in the land.

As for Philadelphia I carry there everytime i go....so...whats your point?

 

[LiveFreeOrDie]

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Prophet wrote:

LiveFreeOrDie wrote:

Prophet wrote:

And if the NRA was going to do something about the ban they would have all ready. If they were serious then Wayne LaPierre would be OC'ing down in Times Square everyday until he was arrested.

Oh really? How about this? If YOU are serious about gun freedom, let YOUR license to carry a firearm expire and then OC in your own Philadelphia. Then spout off about how others aren't getting arrested for the cause. :quirky

Have the NRA pay me $700,000 then I would be happy to. That's what LaPierre roughly makes from his salary. He can afford the legal fight...as can Plaxico Burress. I didn't spout off about others not getting arrested, i spouted off about how a guy who DID get arrested, is a MILLIONAIRE, and FAMOUS therefore it was not quietly brushed under the carpet by the liberal press. If it were any of us no one in this country would have heard from us in 3.5 to 15 years. But since Mr. Burress is rich and famoush (as is Mr. LaPierre) then maybe, since they don't have criminal records they are the perfect test subjects to take a case to the highest court in the land.

As for Philadelphia I carry there everytime i go....so...whats your point?

You couldn't carry in Philly if you didn't have a license to carry a firearm; not without getting arrested.

LaPierre is more useful to the movement out of prison. And no, it doesn't necessarily follow that "if he were serious" he would go out and get thrown in prison, and lose a large amount of mainstream credibility. You say it so flippantly, but you wouldn't do it yourself. That's my point.

The NRA doesn't pay LaPierre whatever they pay him to do silly stunts. They pay him to run the organization. There's no need to get arrested to challenge a gun law. The NRA is challenging 4 cities' laws as we speak without getting arrested.

The longer I'm around people, the more I realize that everyone talks big and acts small.

 

[marshaul]

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LiveFreeOrDie wrote:

LaPierre is more useful to the movement out of prison.

How do you figure?

 

[ixtow]

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Evil Ernie wrote:

Ok, sure, it's unConstitutional, but until the law changes, folks have to abide by it.

If it's unconstitutional, why should anyone have to obey it?

This failing of logic is how our government ignores it's limits. I don't have to obey a government that commits treason against it's own law. This defines the government as a criminal entity itself. I don't have to do what bad guys say!

Why is he being charged with carry a weapon without a permit, but not the many other things he did wrong?

Because the lobyists need their statistical numbers. And it's probablay the charge with the highest possible punishment.

 

[ixtow]

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LiveFreeOrDie wrote:

The longer I'm around people, the more I realize that everyone talks big and acts small.

Evil winning and good men doing nothing, and all that jazz...

Men of principle but not action, are not men of principle.

 

[Gordie]

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There are a few problems with using this as a test case.

First, when you choose a test case you want to use one where the only thing that was done"wrong" is the violation itself.

This is hardly the case with Plaxico. Breaking the law forbidding carry of a handgun was the least of the problem here. He violated numerous safety rules which led to his self inflicted wound. For crying out loud Plaxico, you make millions of dollars, buy a decent holster. Take a gun safety course, and listen to the instruction. If you want to go out partying that's fine, but if you're going to be drinking (more than just a cocktail or glass of wine with dinner), let someone else (preferably sober) provide security. If you make a mistake (shooting yourself in the leg) don't try to duck out of it, getting others in trouble,by passing the gun off to your friend, convincing the club management not to report the incident immediately, and convincing the hospital not to report it at all.

Second, you need to find a case where the person involved is a "model citizen"in every way except for the violation of the law you are challenging.

Plaxico has had numerous disciplinary actions against him in the past. He obviously cares little about the members of his team, or the image that he conveys to the public. He shirks his responsibilities in his job and to his team mates and friends.

Third, you need to have a casewhere people will sympathize with the victim of the law.

Is this the kind of person that we want to hold up as an example of what we as gun owners are all about? The media would be ruthless in their coverage of a test case of this type. Do we really need them portraying all of us as selfish, irresponsible, spoiled, and dangerous? This is just the case that they woulduse to show how dangerous it is to allow "untrained civilians" to carry guns in public. They would say things like "They can't even avoid shooting themselves, how can we let them loose on an unsuspecting public?"Look at the type of coverage it has already gotten.

If you want to challenge a law as being onerous to the people, you have to show where it hurts the common individual. With the exception of the desire to carry a gun for personal protection, what do any of us have in common with Plaxico. I would like to think that we are, as a group, more responsible, and more honorable than Plaxico has shown himself to be.

I just can't help believe that we could do better in finding a test case.

 

[IrRelevant]

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LiveFreeOrDie wrote:

IrRelevant wrote:

I hope they charge him with illegal posession of a concealed weapon within the nightclub. AndI hope they charge him with illegal posession of a firearm in NYC anyway. Discuss...

You sound like one of the gun grabbers yourself.

If he was negligent (and it sounds like he was), charge him for that. Don't charge him with a victimless crime.

Im sorry you feel that way, i just have little or no tolerance for morons of society, especially ones that give legitimate gun owners a bad name. Call me blunt if that makes you feel any better.