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Plaxico Burress Shoots him self...

LiveFreeOrDie

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IrRelevant wrote:
LiveFreeOrDie wrote:
IrRelevant wrote:
I hope they charge him with illegal posession of a concealed weapon within the nightclub. AndI hope they charge him with illegal posession of a firearm in NYC anyway. Discuss...
You sound like one of the gun grabbers yourself.

If he was negligent (and it sounds like he was), charge him for that. Don't charge him with a victimless crime.
Im sorry you feel that way, i just have little or no tolerance for morons of society, especially ones that give legitimate gun owners a bad name. Call me blunt if that makes you feel any better.
I don't have any tolerance for them either, but I don't support such blatant immoral and violent acts by the state to make me feel better about it. That would be wrong.

You saying he should be locked in a cage because you don't like him is chilling. It's the exact same logic gun grabbers use when they want to ban guns.
 

IrRelevant

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LiveFreeOrDie wrote:
IrRelevant wrote:
LiveFreeOrDie wrote:
IrRelevant wrote:
I hope they charge him with illegal posession of a concealed weapon within the nightclub. AndI hope they charge him with illegal posession of a firearm in NYC anyway. Discuss...
You sound like one of the gun grabbers yourself.

If he was negligent (and it sounds like he was), charge him for that. Don't charge him with a victimless crime.
Im sorry you feel that way, i just have little or no tolerance for morons of society, especially ones that give legitimate gun owners a bad name. Call me blunt if that makes you feel any better.
I don't have any tolerance for them either, but I don't support such blatant immoral and violent acts by the state to make me feel better about it. That would be wrong.

You saying he should be locked in a cage because you don't like him is chilling. It's the exact same logic gun grabbers use when they want to ban guns.
I guess you have a point, maybe i take it a little too far. I guess you could say, i hope he is punished fairlyand not given a slap on the wrist like habitual offenders of NFL, MLB, NBA and so on usually receive.
 

Prophet

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LiveFreeOrDie wrote:

You couldn't carry in Philly if you didn't have a license to carry a firearm; not without getting arrested.

LaPierre is more useful to the movement out of prison. And no, it doesn't necessarily follow that "if he were serious" he would go out and get thrown in prison, and lose a large amount of mainstream credibility. You say it so flippantly, but you wouldn't do it yourself. That's my point.

The NRA doesn't pay LaPierre whatever they pay him to do silly stunts. They pay him to run the organization. There's no need to get arrested to challenge a gun law. The NRA is challenging 4 cities' laws as we speak without getting arrested.

The longer I'm around people, the more I realize that everyone talks big and acts small.

I do have a permit.

I have to agree with Marshaul. Nelson Mandela did more for removing Apartheid from South Africa within his prison cell than he ever could have while being a free man. Having LaPierre in a cell puts a face on the victim of this oppression. Forcing the media to cover it. The media would simply ignore Joe Gun Carrier and he would be doin 3 years the hard way and the oppression would continue. Martin Luther King jr.did time excercising his rightsbut I guess you would just call those silly stunts too.

So the NRA pays him to compromise our rights away? Yeah, they may have some lawsuits but if you don't go looking for them then they are just white noise among the incessant chatter of internet stories and local news. And the lawsuits aren't enough, for every lawsuit they win they compromise and erode more of the rights away.

Pay all my legal expenses and I will be more than happy to walk down the middle of Times Square while Open Carrying and be your test case. If you are not willing to put your money where your big mouth is then you should just relax, sit by a warm fire, curl yourself up in a comfy blanket, and pour yourself a nice warm soothing cup of shut the hell up.

LaPierre and Burress are both rich enough to afford the legal costs and famous enough to make its news enough that everyone will follow. It must be easy to sit in that ivory tower in New Hampshire and cast down edicts on who says what and who does what but where are YOUR actions.

I've been thrown into cuffs while excercising my 2A rights when i wouldn't forfeit my 4th. I've stood up to and filed complaints against crooked cops and won in court. And because of my efforts and those of Insane Kangaroo and others positive change is occuring for Pittsburgh Open Carriers. But you just sit in your cabin in the woods far away from people and sip on your cup because you obviously just don't get it.

For the rest of you who aren't sycophants of the NRA and can follow a simple illustrated point i reiterate, Rich and Famous people can afford a fight and that fight will garner more media attention. That's the point, and don't let Grizzly Adams of New Hampshire here make you think that peons are the only ones who should be thrown in cuffs. Either we're all equal or we're not...even the NRA Board.
 

LiveFreeOrDie

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Prophet wrote:
LiveFreeOrDie wrote:

You couldn't carry in Philly if you didn't have a license to carry a firearm; not without getting arrested.

LaPierre is more useful to the movement out of prison. And no, it doesn't necessarily follow that "if he were serious" he would go out and get thrown in prison, and lose a large amount of mainstream credibility. You say it so flippantly, but you wouldn't do it yourself. That's my point.

The NRA doesn't pay LaPierre whatever they pay him to do silly stunts. They pay him to run the organization. There's no need to get arrested to challenge a gun law. The NRA is challenging 4 cities' laws as we speak without getting arrested.

The longer I'm around people, the more I realize that everyone talks big and acts small.

I have to agree with Marshaul. Nelson Mandela did more for removing Apartheid from South Africa within his prison cell than he ever could have while being a free man.
Okie-dokie. Let me know when you're putting your money where your mouth is and I'll maybe send you cookies in jail. Sucks that you'll be a felon when you get out, but I know that you're not the kind of person who would proclaim something to be true that you weren't willing to live out - after all, I wouldn't respect you if you were - so I know that you will follow through.

Let us know your court date! :)
 

LeagueOf1291

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JDriver1.8t wrote:
two wrongs don't make a right.

He was stupid, shot himself, and deserves everything he gets.
Wrong Number One: Plaxico was stoopid and shot himself.
Wrong Number Two: NYC is enforcing an unconstitutional statute by prosecuting Plax for possession of an unregistered firearm.

How exactly does the fact that Plaxico is stoopid make it OK for the state of NY to enforce this unconstitutional statute?
 

Prophet

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LiveFreeOrDie wrote:

Okie-dokie. Let me know when you're putting your money where your mouth is and I'll maybe send you cookies in jail. Sucks that you'll be a felon when you get out, but I know that you're not the kind of person who would proclaim something to be true that you weren't willing to live out - after all, I wouldn't respect you if you were - so I know that you will follow through.

Let us know your court date! :)

Like I said, if I had the bank roll I would. I don't and therefore I don't have any money to put where my mouth is. If you're willing to fund my court case then by all means we should talk. And as for your sarcasm...a sarcastic person has a superiority complex that can be cured only by the honesty of humility but I doubt that someone who can't follow a simple differential between the ease of being rich and famous to enact change as opposed to not being rich and famous would grasp the subtleties and nuance of ideas like humility and honesty.

My court case was in October...like i said...i won. I don't know why you have such a hard on for the NRA and refuse to see the good that LaPierre could do by fighting this case personally. But then again, you are just a mountain man who doesn't deal often with people so the complexities of society are just beyond you.
 

LiveFreeOrDie

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Prophet wrote:
LiveFreeOrDie wrote:

Okie-dokie. Let me know when you're putting your money where your mouth is and I'll maybe send you cookies in jail. Sucks that you'll be a felon when you get out, but I know that you're not the kind of person who would proclaim something to be true that you weren't willing to live out - after all, I wouldn't respect you if you were - so I know that you will follow through.

Let us know your court date! :)

Like I said, if I had the bank roll I would.
Uh-huh. Sure.

Prophet wrote:
But then again, you are just a mountain man who doesn't deal often with people so the complexities of society are just beyond you.
Trollish.
 

marshaul

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ixtow wrote:
Why is he being charged with carry a weapon without a permit, but not the many other things he did wrong?
Actually, as far as I can tell (and I don't think anybody else has mentioned this) the only thing he actually did do wrong (i.e. chargeable offense) was discharge of a firearm within city limits, which, as far as I can tell, is only an infraction in NYC (as most places).

The endangerment charge is BS, and the illegal weapons charges are unconstitutional. If I were Burress, I would claim I wasn't wearing a holster due to liability carrying 4 o'clock without a permit, so ultimately the whole thing is the city's fault.
 

SaltH2OHokie

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marshaul wrote:
ixtow wrote:
Why is he being charged with carry a weapon without a permit, but not the many other things he did wrong?
Actually, as far as I can tell (and I don't think anybody else has mentioned this) the only thing he actually did do wrong (i.e. chargeable offense) was discharge of a firearm within city limits, which, as far as I can tell, is only an infraction in NYC (as most places).

The endangerment charge is BS, and the illegal weapons charges are unconstitutional. If I were Burress, I would claim I wasn't wearing a holster due to liability carrying 4 o'clock without a permit, so ultimately the whole thing is the city's fault.
Unconstitutional but still on the books laws are still laws. If they are actually declared unconstitutional then they're stricken, no?

If your response to that is that the law just needs to be challenged, then I'll be glad to follow someone into a bar in VA with a gun and video tape him getting caught with his weapon concealed, and just to make it fun, the person can't have a permit and if he really wants to get crazy, should shoot himself with it (same circumstances as NYC). Won't even have to argue the facts of the case, just show the court the tape of the actual event.

I get the feeling you'll go to jail after a short trial, arguing constitutionality of the law or not.
 

marshaul

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I'm not even sure what your point is. New York's gun laws are unconstitutional. Obviously. They don't permit OC, so they shouldn't be able to convict for mere possession when they force people to CC (without a permit, since they don't give those either). Burress should challenge the charges on this basis. The city could still convict him of discharge of a firearm within city limits, if they wanted.
 

SaltH2OHokie

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marshaul wrote:
I'm not even sure what your point is. New York's gun laws are unconstitutional. Obviously. They don't permit OC, so they shouldn't be able to convict for mere possession when they force people to CC (without a permit, since they don't give those either). Burress should challenge the charges on this basis. The city could still convict him of discharge of a firearm within city limits, if they wanted.
My point is just because a law appears blatantly unconstitutional, it doesn't mean it will immediately be overturned the first time a case comes to trial to challenge it.

The 15th amendment to the Constitution was ratified in 1870. Black voters were still facing trouble at the polls 50, 60, 70 and more, years later.

To think that Plaxico is going to become some sort of 2nd amendment martyr seems unlikely to me. Bloomberg will likely try to stop any type of plea agreement or that would be my first guess on what will happen. Any way it plays out I can't loss...either I'm right, which isn't good for my gun rights, but at least I won an internet argument :lol:, or I'm wrong and I win since it advances the 2nd...
 

Tomahawk

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Let's break this down.

Did Burress break a law? Yes.

Did he do something stupid? Yes.

Did Burress harm anyone's person, property, or liberty, other than himself? No.

Does Burress have a natural right to carry a weapon for self-defense? Yes.

Does the law Burress broke violate that right? Yes.

Is upholding the law more important than protecting natural rights of citizens? Big fat no.

Conclusion: Burress deserves, at most, a fine for a negligent discharge. His handgun should handed back to him and he should be warned to be more responsible in the future. NYC's anti-carry laws should be disregarded and no respect shown them by police or prosecutors. Bloomberg should get bent.

I can certainly understand why some of you might think Burress is not the best role model for gunowners, and that we shouldn't make him into some sort of figurehead for the movement, by that's no excuse to throw him under the bus and deprive him of liberty for a dumb mistake. At the least we can wish him luck in his trial.
 

PT111

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Did Burress harm anyone's person, property, or liberty, other than himself? No.
Not sure about that, from what I read they had a heck of a time cleaning up the blood all over the place and the bullet probably damaged the floor. Also Antonio Pierce may lose some of his liberty over this and the doctor who treated him has been suspended so we can't exactly say that no one else was harmed. I also see a civil suit coming from Plaxico against the club as the bouncerswere trying to move him to the VIP lounge against his will after he got drunk.
 

Tomahawk

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PT111 wrote:
Did Burress harm anyone's person, property, or liberty, other than himself? No.
Not sure about that, from what I read they had a heck of a time cleaning up the blood all over the place and the bullet probably damaged the floor. Also Antonio Pierce may lose some of his liberty over this and the doctor who treated him has been suspended so we can't exactly say that no one else was harmed. I also see a civil suit coming from Plaxico against the club as the bouncerswere trying to move him to the VIP lounge against his will after he got drunk.

Burress didn't force the doctor or Pierce to do what they did. They are responsible for their own actions.Burress didn't harm any of these people. It is the state that is threatening to harm them, after the fact.

If his blood ruined the carpet he can be sued. No need to put a man in jail for a spilled liquid.

Discharging a firearm negligently in a crowded restaurant is stupid and dangerous, but still an accident, not intentional. Since nobody was harmed in this case, no need to throw him in jail for YEARS as though he were a murdurous brigand. I think a stiff fine for a misdimeanor charge would suffice.

People do stupid things. Draconian punishment will not protect us from them. New York sucks.
 

marshaul

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Tomahawk wrote:
Conclusion: Burress deserves, at most, a fine for a negligent discharge. His handgun should handed back to him and he should be warned to be more responsible in the future. NYC's anti-carry laws should be disregarded and no respect shown them by police or prosecutors. Bloomberg should get bent.

I can certainly understand why some of you might think Burress is not the best role model for gunowners, and that we shouldn't make him into some sort of figurehead for the movement, by that's no excuse to throw him under the bus and deprive him of liberty for a dumb mistake. At the least we can wish him luck in his trial.
+100

Tomahawk wrote:
New York sucks.
You sure got that right.
 

PT111

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This was an early article about the shooting and I don't know how accurate it is but does give some good details of the incident. The one thing that puzzles me is people keep using accident to describe this and I thought that the AD term was verboten on here and replaced with the ND term. What ever you think of NY lawsthis whole thing was stupid.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2008/11/29/2008-11-29_giants_receiver_plaxico_burress_accident.html

snip
Burress' latest self-inflicted wound came after he was initially turned away from the LQ nightclub in midtown because he was packing heat, police sources said. Burress, 31, who was sporting flashy jewelry and carrying loads of cash, told club management he needed the gun to protect himself, sources said.

The mercurial Giant was waved inside the crowded Latin-themed club on Lexington Ave. about midnight. He downed several drinks, making already jittery security guards more nervous about his weapon.

As Burress was being led into a VIP area, with a drink in his hand, the gun slipped down his pants leg. He reached for the weapon, but fumbled it and it went off, sources said. The bullet tore through Burress' already injured right thigh, police said.

"[The bullet] went in and out. No bones," Chief Michael Collins, a police spokesman, said.

Pierce, 30, rushed to his bleeding teammate and applied pressure to the wound as Burress screamed in pain amid the hip-hop beats piping through the club, sources said. As he worked to slow the bleeding, Pierce berated Burress for bringing a loaded handgun into a club.

Panicking, Burress told his teammate not to call 911 for an ambulance, sources said.

Pierce helped the bloodied receiver out of the club before taking off with the gun and stashing it somewhere in New Jersey, sources said.

Burress was afraid to go to the hospital, but two hours after the shooting, at 2 a.m., his wife, Tiffany, and a friend escorted him to New York-Presbyterian Hospital Weill Cornell. He was treated and released at about 12:45 p.m., sources said.

But a hospital spokeswoman denied that Burress was ever there.

Cops only learned about the incident after Giants employees quietly reached out to the NYPD to report it, sources said.
/snip
 

Gordie

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Although I believe that Plaxico is a horrible case to use to challenge the law, I also agree with Tomahawk, don't throw him under the bus. Make him pay damages to the club, maybe a court ordered firearms safety course so thatit can be saidthat something was done tohelp himpreventthis fromhappeningagain. It would be like a DUI where no one got hurt and they order the person to pay a fine andattend AA for a year.

Although there are several other people who will suffer because of this incident, it is their decisions and not Plaxico's that put them in the hot water. In actualitythe worst damage done by him is thehole in his leg and theblack eye that we all get in the view of the antis because of his dumb negligence.:banghead:

Oh well, they hate us anyway.
 

Tomahawk

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PT111 wrote:
The one thing that puzzles me is people keep using accident to describe this and I thought that the AD term was verboten on here and replaced with the ND term.
Well, there has been an attempt within the RKBA community to purge the word "accident" from the lexicon and replace it with "negligent", but that never made any sense to me. Negligence results in accidents, and once in a blue moon an accident occurs which is so odd you can't really call it negligence, like a factory defect or whatever. In Burress' case it was clearly an accident, and it was clearly caused by negligence and plain stupidity.

What ever you think of NY lawsthis whole thing was stupid.

Totally agree with that.
 

Prophet

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Ernesto Arturo Miranda was far from a model citizen but his case went all the way to the top. Maybe the Justices will see more about the law and less about the citizen. Besides...if it starts to turn against us we can always use the race card. :celebrate
 
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