Proposed Legislation - Recognition of Delaware, Pennsylvania, and Virginia Permits

[Dreamer]

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Smurfologist

Can you please explain this part of your post? Thanks!!

Many states re-drafted their state constitutions after the Civil War, and specifically deleted or inserted provisions to limit and restrict the rights of Blacks.

Maryland has never had a "RKBA" provision in their constitution. Even the original 1776 version stated only that "a well regulated Militia is the proper and natural defence of a free Government," thereby establishing the idea that a "well regulated militia" was somehow a "collective right", the purpose of which was to defend the Government, and not the People...

In 1864, as part of the Reconstruction rewrite of their constitution, as a move to disenfranchise the newly-freed blacks, and the nearly 25,000 MD residents who fought with or were sympathisers with the Confederacy. This rewrite disenfranchised Blacks and Confederate sympathisers, and further restricted the rights of various classes and groups of people, based on political ideologies, religious conviction, ad color.

The current MD consitution was ratified in 1867, and although it dropped many of the Reconstruction disenfranchisement language, it did not introduce a RKBA clause, stating only (as in the original 1776 draft) that "a well regulated Militia is the proper and natural defence of a free Government."

Maryland has a LONG political history of institutionalized racism, classism and sexism in it's law, and is one of only 8 states without an individual RKBA provision in it's State Constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_Constitution

http://aomol.net/megafile/msa/speccol/sc2900/sc2908/html/convention1776.html

​

California, Iowa, Maryland, Minnesota, New Jersey, and New York have NO individual RKBA provision in their Constitution. Kansas, Massachusetts have a RKBA provision, but the courts have historically ruled it as a "collective right" not an individual right.

http://www.trolp.org/main_pgs/issues/v11n1/Volokh.pdf

​

Hawaii has a RKBA provision, but it is not expressly defined as an individual right, and the courts remain silent on this issue in Hawaii. VA is legally in a similar situation as HI, but judging by the fact that the VA state government filed an Amicus brief supporting the Heller decision last year, it is safe to say that the majority of Judges and DA's in VA would rule in favor of the individual RKBA if sch a case came to court...

http://www.roanoke.com/politics/wb/143971
​

 

[Smurfologist]

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Dreamer wrote:

Smurfologist

Can you please explain this part of your post? Thanks!!

Many states re-drafted their state constitutions after the Civil War, and specifically deleted or inserted provisions to limit and restrict the rights of Blacks.

Maryland has never had a "RKBA" provision in their constitution. Even the original 1779 version stated only that "a well regulated Militia is the proper and natural defence of a free Government," thereby establishing the idea that a "well regulated militia" was somehow a "collective right", the purpose of which was to defend the Government, and not the People...

In 1964, as part of the Reconstruction rewrite of their constitution, as a move to disenfranchise the newly-freed blacks, and the nearly 25,000 MD residents who fought with or were sympathisers with the Confederacy. This rewrite disenfranchised Blacks and Confederate sympathisers, and further restricted the rights of various classes and groups of people, based on political ideologies, religious conviction, ad color.

The current MD consitution was ratified in 1867, and although it dropped many of the Reconstruction disenfranchisement language, it did not introduce a RKBA clause, stating only (as in the original 1776 draft) that "a well regulated Militia is the proper and natural defence of a free Government."

Maryland has a LONG political history of institutionalized racism, classism and sexism in it's law, and is one of only 8 states without an individual RKBA provision in it's State Constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_Constitution

http://aomol.net/megafile/msa/speccol/sc2900/sc2908/html/convention1776.html

​

California, Iowa, Maryland, Minnesota, New Jersey, and New York have NO individual RKBA provision in their Constitution. Kansas, Massachusetts have a RKBA provision, but the courts have historically ruled it as a "collective right" not an individual right.

http://www.trolp.org/main_pgs/issues/v11n1/Volokh.pdf

​

Hawaii has a RKBA provision, but it is not expressly defined as an individual right, and the courts remain silent on this issue in Hawaii. VA is legally in a similar situation as HI, but judging by the fact that the VA state government filed an Amicus brief supporting the Heller decision last year, it is safe to say that the majority of Judges and DA's in VA would rule in favor of the individual RKBA if sch a case came to court...

http://www.roanoke.com/politics/wb/143971
​

Wow, I am not a history buff (my worst subject in school), but this is great historical information for me! I ama Black man, so I definitely can relate. Thanks so much and I now understand.

The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!:X

 

[Sonora Rebel]

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Smurfologist wrote:

Sonora Rebel wrote:

MD has no 'state' Consitutional provision for 2A. It was deleted in 1867. The whole MD position has been unconitutional since.

Can you please explain this part of your post? Thanks!!

The 2nd Amendment... brought to you by Beretta and the number 1791!!:X

It's a typo... Sue me! MD... NY... NJ and a few others have no enumerated (recognized right) to self defense in their state Constitutions. There is no 'RTKBA' It (they) have ignored the US Constitution... which is primafacie'unconstitutional' in so doing.

 

[Dreamer]

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I just got off the phone with the sponsor of this bill, Delegate Mike Smigiel, and he told me that the exclusion of WV was an oversight, and that the bill would be amended soon to include WV, so that ALL contiguous states to MD would be included in "reciprocity".

Delegate Smigiel is a Marine, and an NRA life member. He is a very pro-2A guy, and was very polite and informative on the phone. Mike is a stand-up guy, and is 100% on our side, I believe...

He also told me that he was accepting letters of support from people who travel through MD and are supportive of this bill. So if you live in a contiguous state, or have a CHP that is recognized by this bill, and you find the current CCW laws in Maryland to be egregious, inconvenient, or otherwise restrictive to your travel, business, and safety, he requests that you send him a letter expressing support for this bill.

He is also looking for out-of-state residents with CHP's to testify at the hearings in support of reciprocity. He said the hearings should be sometime in February.

Go to his blog for updates:

http://delegatemike.com/

 

[Tomahawk]

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

It's a typo... Sue me! MD... NY... NJ and a few others have no enumerated (recognized right) to self defense in their state Constitutions. There is no 'RTKBA' It (they) have ignored the US Constitution... which is primafacie'unconstitutional' in so doing.

States must provide a republican form of government with protection of rights, but they don't have to copy the Bill of Rights in their constitutions. Even the federal constitution doesn't list all your rights, nor would it be possible, which is why the 9th and 1oth were written to cover the bases.

 

[Sonora Rebel]

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Tomahawk wrote:

Sonora Rebel wrote:

It's a typo... Sue me! MD... NY... NJ and a few others have no enumerated (recognized right) to self defense in their state Constitutions. There is no 'RTKBA' It (they) have ignored the US Constitution... which is primafacie'unconstitutional' in so doing.

States must provide a republican form of government with protection of rights, but they don't have to copy the Bill of Rights in their constitutions. Even the federal constitution doesn't list all your rights, nor would it be possible, which is why the 9th and 1oth were written to cover the bases.

States cannot grant rights... but they can (and do) deny them. Marylanders as such, have no Right to self defense beyond their own doorway with a firearm. Such a right is basic to human existance in western civilizations.

 

[Dreamer]

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I mailed my PA LTCF application packet today...

Now the wait begins--waiting for my PA License, and waiting for the MD Legislature to "do the right thing"...

High hope, folks! Send "positive 2A vibes" toward Annapolis!!!

 

[Sig229]

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I will be applying for my PA LTCF license in May of this year.

If this bill is passed, It will be strange carrying in Maryland (legally).

Lets just hope ALL MD police officers are notified of the new law so people like us dont spend a night in a Maryland jail (or worse) by an uneducated LEO.

 

[theschultz]

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Just want to comiserate.



Sent in for my VA CCW 3 weeks ago today. Called intoday only to find outthat VASP have a newly revised form we need to use. Therefore my app is being mailed back. NO background check done. Nothing!



Damn.



Dave

 

[mrjam2jab]

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theschultz wrote:

Just want to comiserate.



Sent in for my VA CCW 3 weeks ago today. Called intoday only to find outthat VASP have a newly revised form we need to use. Therefore my app is being mailed back. NO background check done. Nothing!



Damn.



Dave

Really? I filled out the app in Sept...notary/prints and all...and its been sitting waiting for the funds to become available....

 

[theschultz]

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do u have ur pa ltcf?

 

[mrjam2jab]

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theschultz wrote:

do u have ur pa ltcf?

Me? Yes. But i was thinking to get VA for the DE recip.

 

[virginiatuck]

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I wonder how the first reading will go tomorrow (13JAN2010)...

 

[Sig229]

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virginiatuck wrote:

I wonder how the first reading will go tomorrow (13JAN2010)...

Yeah, its going to be interesting to see what decision they make.

But, if Maryland does pass this into law, someone better notify "Ripley's believe it or Not".

 

[XD40coyote]

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Sonora, I have a FL lisc.

I doubt this bill will go anywhere, it IS MD you know...

 

[virginiatuck]

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There's a hearing scheduled for 1300, 26JAN2010.

 

[Dreamer]

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I've contacted Del. Smigiel's office, and am planning to travel from NC to MD on Jan 26 to testify in favor of this bill. (I have a NC CHP and a PA non-resident LTCF, so this bill will benefit me when I travel to MD to visit my family)

I suggest that EVERYONE on this forum with permits from VA, WV, DE, and PA also contact Del. Smigiel, and either write a letter in support of this bill (so that he may enter it into the hearing) or volunteer to speak in person.

This bill WILL go through if there is an avalanche of public support, so let's MOBILIZE!

 

[virginiatuck]

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Dreamer wrote:

I've contacted Del. Smigiel's office, and am planning to travel from NC to MD on Jan 26 to testify in favor of this bill. (I have a NC CHP and a PA non-resident LTCF, so this bill will benefit me when I travel to MD to visit my family)

I suggest that EVERYONE on this forum with permits from VA, WV, DE, and PA also contact Del. Smigiel, and either write a letter in support of this bill (so that he may enter it into the hearing) or volunteer to speak in person.

This bill WILL go through if there is an avalanche of public support, so let's MOBILIZE!

I e-mailed him more than a week ago with my thoughts, recommendations, and reasons why this bill would benefit me as a Virginian CHP holder. I provided my real name and phone numbers, but have not heard back from him.

A couple things I pointed out were that:

1) He left another bordering jurisdiction off the bill, no matter how anti-gun and no-issue they are, called Washington, D.C.

2) It appears to be situated in the wrong subtitle. Subtitle 1 pertains to dealing and purchasing of regulated firearms, whereas subtitle 3 pertains to handgun carry permits. MD Criminal Law § 4-203 states:

(b) Exceptions.- This section does not prohibit:
(2) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person to
whom a permit to wear, carry, or transport the handgun has been issued
under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article;

So if it were passed under subtitle 1, it may not have any bearing on § 4-203 for the specified out-of-state permit holders.

I also explained several reasons I have to travel to and through Maryland, why I avoid going to Maryland, and that passage of such a recognition bill would mean I'd be spending more time (and money) in the State.

I'll follow up with Delegate Smigiel soon if I do not hear back.

 

[mrjam2jab]

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virginiatuck wrote:

Dreamer wrote:

I've contacted Del. Smigiel's office, and am planning to travel from NC to MD on Jan 26 to testify in favor of this bill. (I have a NC CHP and a PA non-resident LTCF, so this bill will benefit me when I travel to MD to visit my family)

I suggest that EVERYONE on this forum with permits from VA, WV, DE, and PA also contact Del. Smigiel, and either write a letter in support of this bill (so that he may enter it into the hearing) or volunteer to speak in person.

This bill WILL go through if there is an avalanche of public support, so let's MOBILIZE!

I e-mailed him more than a week ago with my thoughts, recommendations, and reasons why this bill would benefit me as a Virginian CHP holder. I provided my real name and phone numbers, but have not heard back from him.

A couple things I pointed out were that:

1) He left another bordering jurisdiction off the bill, no matter how anti-gun and no-issue they are, called Washington, D.C.

2) It appears to be situated in the wrong subtitle. Subtitle 1 pertains to dealing and purchasing of regulated firearms, whereas subtitle 3 pertains to handgun carry permits. MD Criminal Law § 4-203 states:

(b) Exceptions.- This section does not prohibit:
(2) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person to
whom a permit to wear, carry, or transport the handgun has been issued
under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article;

So if it were passed under subtitle 1, it may not have any bearing on § 4-203 for the specified out-of-state permit holders.

I also explained several reasons I have to travel to and through Maryland, why I avoid going to Maryland, and that passage of such a recognition bill would mean I'd be spending more time (and money) in the State.

I'll follow up with Delegate Smigiel soon if I do not hear back.

virginiatuck -- you can try emailing Smigel's Chief of Staff with your points:

mrjam2jab wrote:

His Chief of Staff popped in on PAFOA.ORG

Seems like a good point of contact...

Andi Morony andimorony@gmail.com

She has answered several questions on PAFOA...

 

[Dreamer]

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From what Del. Smigiel told me today on the phone, he is "running around at 180mph", with all the bills he's proposed this session (25% of the bills on the floor this session are his!), and has been getting inundated with phone calls and emails on MANY different issues. Apparently he's one of the only MD legislatures who actually LISTENS to his constituents, and acts on their wishes. This guy is REALLY working for his paycheck!

Give him some time. But give him a call or email to remind him of your support. It has been my experience that his staff is VERY cordial and helpful. And be sure to let him know that you appreciate all his hard work.