virginiatuck
Regular Member
imported post
Dreamer wrote:
Dreamer wrote:
Yeah, I understand that.
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Proposed Legislation - Recognition of Delaware, Pennsylvania, and Virginia Permits
- Thread starter virginiatuck
- Start date
Virginian683
Regular Member
imported post
Maryland's supreme soviet doesn't allow its own citizens to carry. Does anybody really think they're going to allow citizens to carry from the very states they blame for all their violent crime problems? That would be like unconditional surrender and admitting the abject failure of their gun control scheme for the last 30 years.
Maryland has got to go shall-issue for its own citizens first.
The fact that this guy has introduced 25% of all the bills thus far shows he is just throwing stuff out there without a thought or even a clue how to get it passed. Kind of like Ron Paul proposes a ton of legislation every year and never gets a single bill through Congress.
I'm afraid this bill is dead on arrival.
Maryland's supreme soviet doesn't allow its own citizens to carry. Does anybody really think they're going to allow citizens to carry from the very states they blame for all their violent crime problems? That would be like unconditional surrender and admitting the abject failure of their gun control scheme for the last 30 years.
Maryland has got to go shall-issue for its own citizens first.
The fact that this guy has introduced 25% of all the bills thus far shows he is just throwing stuff out there without a thought or even a clue how to get it passed. Kind of like Ron Paul proposes a ton of legislation every year and never gets a single bill through Congress.
I'm afraid this bill is dead on arrival.
9MM Owner
Regular Member
imported post
Virginian683 wrote:
It's totally STUPID not to allow responsable people to carry guns these days. I've been reading area news lately and have read about a number of armed robberies and shootings in the Frederick, MD area in the past couple of weeks in the Soviet State of Maryland where law abiding citizens can't properly/legally defend themselves. With budget cuts effecting law enforcement in several if all states, now would be the time for the bill to be passed.
Virginian683 wrote:
It's totally STUPID not to allow responsable people to carry guns these days. I've been reading area news lately and have read about a number of armed robberies and shootings in the Frederick, MD area in the past couple of weeks in the Soviet State of Maryland where law abiding citizens can't properly/legally defend themselves. With budget cuts effecting law enforcement in several if all states, now would be the time for the bill to be passed.
Dreamer
Regular Member
imported post
I was wondering if anyone else on here was planning to be at the MD General Assembly on Jan.26 for this bill's first hearing? If so, perhaps we could get together for a dinner or something, afterwards. Seeing as how MD isn't an OC-friendly state, it would have to be a "no-carry" event (unless we go to VA!)
I'd like to meet some OCDO folks from MD, if possible, on my trip!
I was wondering if anyone else on here was planning to be at the MD General Assembly on Jan.26 for this bill's first hearing? If so, perhaps we could get together for a dinner or something, afterwards. Seeing as how MD isn't an OC-friendly state, it would have to be a "no-carry" event (unless we go to VA!)
I'd like to meet some OCDO folks from MD, if possible, on my trip!
Dreamer
Regular Member
imported post
Well, I went to MD to speak at the first Committee hearing for HB-52, and had a good time, Some VERY eloquent people offered testimony, ranging from WWII vets, to active-duty miitary, to a Trauma Nurse from Johns Hopkins, and included 2 Eagle Scouts.
All in all, there were about 20 people who offered "Pro" testimony.
The only people who offered testimony against this bill were the MD State Police and the United Methodist Church...
It was a long day--this bill the the last of 4 or 5 that was discussed on Tuesday. The chanmber was full of people to testify. It was all pretty exciting, and I met some REALLY engaging people. The folks in MD have a tough go of it with regards to the 2A, and I think it was GREAT to see a lot of out-of-staters to give testimony.
The Trauma Nurse who testified lives in MD. She works with a lot of victims of gang violence, and get a lot of threats on her life. She was actually mugged a few years ago, and then applied for (and received!) a non-restricted MD Carry permit. She was very well-spoken, and we talked after the session let out. I told her that I wanted to shake her hand, because I appreciated her testimony, and because I'd never actually met a non-LEO or non-security guard in MD who had a permit. She was really nice, and even pulled out her MD permit to show me...
The main reason the MD state police gave for being against reciprocity was that they believe that EVERY other state in the Union has such lax standards for issuing permits that they can't be trusted, and that most of those citizens from other states with permits would never meet MD's standards. Several of the delegates tried to get the MSP to define just what they mean by a "good and substantial reason" for carrying, and they couldn't. I think they were asked over 6 times to define what this meant, and they couldn't. They finally admitted that they almost never issue to citizens if it's not "job related", and often turn down people who DO meet their dubious "requirements" (such as having been attakced previously, or carrying cash or precious metals). Essentially, they admitted that if you don't have a badge (a real one or a "rent-a-cop" one), or aren't a doctor, pharmacist, or big-time attorney, you probably can't get a permit in MD. Their demeaner through their entire testimony, and Q&A period was arrogant, elitist, involved a lot of badmouthing the State Police of all their Border States, and included several outright lies, which even when called out on by some of the Delegates, they didn't even try to backpedal or cover their tracks. They just said "we follow the law", but then would never specifically state exactly what laws they used.
It was pathetic...
The spokeswomen for MSP would have been committing perjury in several instances if she'd been under oath, like when she stated that VA non-resident permits do not require fingerprinting, or when she stated that there was NO way for MSP to verify that PA, or VA permits were valid (both cards have toll-free numbers on them SPECIFICALLY for this purpose!). Not to mention that through CANDLE and NLETS, the MSP and ALL the large municipal MD police forces have access to this info from contiguous states through their Mobile Data Terminals. And she had the gall to say this AFTER Delegate Smigiel told the Committee that these phone numbers were printed RIGHT on the card, AND several of us actually SHOWED the numbers to her on our cards.
Anyway, it was a fun day, and I got to meet some VERY interesting people.
I did learn that judging by the attitudes of many of the Delegates, and the official Spokes person of the MSP, that the "officials" in MD believe, for some reason that they are functioning under the Napoleonic Code of Law, rather than under the Prescriptive Code of Law that the rest of the United States use, and actually believe in thei rheart of hearts that large parts of the US Consitution and US Common Law don't apply to them (including Heller), and that they actually believe that it is their job to define what Citizens MAY do, rather than what they MAY NOT.
It was enlightening, educational, and GENUINELY FRIGHTENING...
I will NEVER live in MD. If the two MSP officers who were there are representative of the entire MSP, then I fear that the only difference between MD and, say the ex-Soviet Union is the language they speak...
I only got a few pics of me and Del. Smigiel, but his aid told me she would send me a copy of the video of the entire session, so hopefully I can have that on a disc in a few weeks. I'll let all you folks know when I get this video, and I'm willing to make copies for anyone interested in seeing the testimonies...
Well, I went to MD to speak at the first Committee hearing for HB-52, and had a good time, Some VERY eloquent people offered testimony, ranging from WWII vets, to active-duty miitary, to a Trauma Nurse from Johns Hopkins, and included 2 Eagle Scouts.
All in all, there were about 20 people who offered "Pro" testimony.
The only people who offered testimony against this bill were the MD State Police and the United Methodist Church...
It was a long day--this bill the the last of 4 or 5 that was discussed on Tuesday. The chanmber was full of people to testify. It was all pretty exciting, and I met some REALLY engaging people. The folks in MD have a tough go of it with regards to the 2A, and I think it was GREAT to see a lot of out-of-staters to give testimony.
The Trauma Nurse who testified lives in MD. She works with a lot of victims of gang violence, and get a lot of threats on her life. She was actually mugged a few years ago, and then applied for (and received!) a non-restricted MD Carry permit. She was very well-spoken, and we talked after the session let out. I told her that I wanted to shake her hand, because I appreciated her testimony, and because I'd never actually met a non-LEO or non-security guard in MD who had a permit. She was really nice, and even pulled out her MD permit to show me...
The main reason the MD state police gave for being against reciprocity was that they believe that EVERY other state in the Union has such lax standards for issuing permits that they can't be trusted, and that most of those citizens from other states with permits would never meet MD's standards. Several of the delegates tried to get the MSP to define just what they mean by a "good and substantial reason" for carrying, and they couldn't. I think they were asked over 6 times to define what this meant, and they couldn't. They finally admitted that they almost never issue to citizens if it's not "job related", and often turn down people who DO meet their dubious "requirements" (such as having been attakced previously, or carrying cash or precious metals). Essentially, they admitted that if you don't have a badge (a real one or a "rent-a-cop" one), or aren't a doctor, pharmacist, or big-time attorney, you probably can't get a permit in MD. Their demeaner through their entire testimony, and Q&A period was arrogant, elitist, involved a lot of badmouthing the State Police of all their Border States, and included several outright lies, which even when called out on by some of the Delegates, they didn't even try to backpedal or cover their tracks. They just said "we follow the law", but then would never specifically state exactly what laws they used.
It was pathetic...
The spokeswomen for MSP would have been committing perjury in several instances if she'd been under oath, like when she stated that VA non-resident permits do not require fingerprinting, or when she stated that there was NO way for MSP to verify that PA, or VA permits were valid (both cards have toll-free numbers on them SPECIFICALLY for this purpose!). Not to mention that through CANDLE and NLETS, the MSP and ALL the large municipal MD police forces have access to this info from contiguous states through their Mobile Data Terminals. And she had the gall to say this AFTER Delegate Smigiel told the Committee that these phone numbers were printed RIGHT on the card, AND several of us actually SHOWED the numbers to her on our cards.
Anyway, it was a fun day, and I got to meet some VERY interesting people.
I did learn that judging by the attitudes of many of the Delegates, and the official Spokes person of the MSP, that the "officials" in MD believe, for some reason that they are functioning under the Napoleonic Code of Law, rather than under the Prescriptive Code of Law that the rest of the United States use, and actually believe in thei rheart of hearts that large parts of the US Consitution and US Common Law don't apply to them (including Heller), and that they actually believe that it is their job to define what Citizens MAY do, rather than what they MAY NOT.
It was enlightening, educational, and GENUINELY FRIGHTENING...
I will NEVER live in MD. If the two MSP officers who were there are representative of the entire MSP, then I fear that the only difference between MD and, say the ex-Soviet Union is the language they speak...
I only got a few pics of me and Del. Smigiel, but his aid told me she would send me a copy of the video of the entire session, so hopefully I can have that on a disc in a few weeks. I'll let all you folks know when I get this video, and I'm willing to make copies for anyone interested in seeing the testimonies...
Tomahawk
Regular Member
imported post
Good report, Dreamer. I live in Northern VA and am in range of Baltimore radio stations, so I occasionally pick up talk radio from up there and their descriptions of the MSP and the legislature in Annapolis sounds pretty much like what you've described.
But this is how you gotta start. Numbers count, showing up in force to speak is one part of the solution.
Good report, Dreamer. I live in Northern VA and am in range of Baltimore radio stations, so I occasionally pick up talk radio from up there and their descriptions of the MSP and the legislature in Annapolis sounds pretty much like what you've described.
But this is how you gotta start. Numbers count, showing up in force to speak is one part of the solution.
9MM Owner
Regular Member
imported post
Dreamer wrote:
Dreamer wrote:
Thanks Dreamer! As much as I look forward to see this bill pass, I sure as hell won't be one of the first 100 or so to carry in Md. From what you reported about the MSP representative's constant misleading people with her mistruths I wouldn't trust them if we were allowed to carry there. It sounds like there will be alot of harrasing. I hope the lawyers are ready to deal with Maryland and the MSP after is passes because I can troubles ahead.
Dreamer
Regular Member
imported post
There was one ASTOUNDING thing the MSP rep said that I forgot to put in my report. When I heard this quotation, I actually gasped out loud...
One representative asked her if the Legislature passes a law DEFINING "self defense" as a "good and substantial reason" to issue a permit in MD, (as opposed to being rich, or being an elected official, or being a rent-a-cop), would they then issue permits to ordinary citizens.
Her response, was "I can't answer that without consulting our legal counsel."
EPIC FAIL.
I hate to inform the MSP of this, but if such a law was passed, they would be REQUIRED to follow it, regardless of how superior they think they are to the law-abiding citizens of their state. Perhaps she needs to go back to cop-school, and review ow the legislative process works, and what exactly her job as a law ENFORCEMENT officer (NOT a law-interpreting officer) entails.:banghead:
Police need to realize that it is their job to KNOW and ENFORCE the law. If they want to INTERPRET the law, they need to go to LAW SCHOOL and pass the Bar...
I REALLY hope the reciprocity amendment passes though. It would be a good thing for MD, and a good thing for the 2A movement.
The only drawback I can see from this bill passing and being implemented, is that since the gangs like MS-13 have all migrated operations to MD from VA, WV and PA (because in THOSE states, the citizens CAN protect themselves), that those gang-types would have to move to some other unfortunate state to continue their operations, and I don't know if there's any more room for them in NYC.
Oh, yeah, they could relocate to DC--they'd be right at home with all the other thieves, crooks, extortionists and drug dealers that live there on Capital Hill in the big stone buildings... :shock:
I can't wait to get my copy of the video recording of this Committee. I will be studying it intensely, and filing rebuttals to the MD legislature AND the MSP regarding the disinformation, mistakes, and outright lies perpetrated by the MSP's spokesperson as soon as I get the official recording of her exact words...
There was one ASTOUNDING thing the MSP rep said that I forgot to put in my report. When I heard this quotation, I actually gasped out loud...
One representative asked her if the Legislature passes a law DEFINING "self defense" as a "good and substantial reason" to issue a permit in MD, (as opposed to being rich, or being an elected official, or being a rent-a-cop), would they then issue permits to ordinary citizens.
Her response, was "I can't answer that without consulting our legal counsel."
EPIC FAIL.
I hate to inform the MSP of this, but if such a law was passed, they would be REQUIRED to follow it, regardless of how superior they think they are to the law-abiding citizens of their state. Perhaps she needs to go back to cop-school, and review ow the legislative process works, and what exactly her job as a law ENFORCEMENT officer (NOT a law-interpreting officer) entails.:banghead:
Police need to realize that it is their job to KNOW and ENFORCE the law. If they want to INTERPRET the law, they need to go to LAW SCHOOL and pass the Bar...
I REALLY hope the reciprocity amendment passes though. It would be a good thing for MD, and a good thing for the 2A movement.
The only drawback I can see from this bill passing and being implemented, is that since the gangs like MS-13 have all migrated operations to MD from VA, WV and PA (because in THOSE states, the citizens CAN protect themselves), that those gang-types would have to move to some other unfortunate state to continue their operations, and I don't know if there's any more room for them in NYC.
Oh, yeah, they could relocate to DC--they'd be right at home with all the other thieves, crooks, extortionists and drug dealers that live there on Capital Hill in the big stone buildings... :shock:
I can't wait to get my copy of the video recording of this Committee. I will be studying it intensely, and filing rebuttals to the MD legislature AND the MSP regarding the disinformation, mistakes, and outright lies perpetrated by the MSP's spokesperson as soon as I get the official recording of her exact words...
Dreamer
Regular Member
imported post
Oh, one more thing...
If anyone is interested, I have my speech in PDF form and can email it to you.
Or I could just post it here in text format for EVERYONE to read...
Which would you folks prefer?
Oh, one more thing...
If anyone is interested, I have my speech in PDF form and can email it to you.
Or I could just post it here in text format for EVERYONE to read...
Which would you folks prefer?
Sig229
Regular Member
imported post
Thanks a lot Dreamer. You are a true patriot!
The Maryland State Police seems like its corrupt as the rest of the MD government.
Hopefully the legislators will see how arrogant they are and start eh things going in our favor.
But in the back of my mind, I realize this is Maryland we are talking about.
The land of disappointment.
Thanks a lot Dreamer. You are a true patriot!
The Maryland State Police seems like its corrupt as the rest of the MD government.
Hopefully the legislators will see how arrogant they are and start eh things going in our favor.
But in the back of my mind, I realize this is Maryland we are talking about.
The land of disappointment.
Thundar
Regular Member
imported post
Dreamer wrote:
Dreamer wrote:
Could you post it dreamer?
Dreamer
Regular Member
imported post
I made a few slight adjustments to th etext during the hearings, and so the speech I delivered wasn't EXACTLY word for word the same as this text, but it's about 99% the same. Like I said, I made a few "spot edits" in the hour or so before I testified.
Like I said, I hope to be receiving a DVD with the video of this entire Committee session sometime in the next few weeks, and when I do, I will edit it down into manageable clips and posting it on YouTube...
(Bold words in text are to indicate spoken emphasis, as delivered by me...)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Support for HB-52
Tuesday, 26 January 2010
My name is xxxxxxxxxx, and I am a resident of North Carolina. I am 44 years old, and have been a Graphic Designer for over 20 years. I am currently pursuing my Masters Degree in Fine Arts at a major university. I received my Bachelor’s Degree from a small, private Liberal Arts college, and in my younger days, I was an Eagle Scout and a member of MENSA. My voters registration card says “Independent.”
Judging by my personal history, I am not the sort of person who most would consider to be a “Second Amendment Activist”. But I have driven over six hours across three states to support this bill because the one thing I have learned in 44 years is that my life and the life of my family is precious, and that is it not only my right, but my responsibility, and duty, as a father, a husband, and a law-abiding citizen to protect and defend the lives of those I hold dear.
And THAT is why I hold a Concealed Handgun Permit in the State of North Carolina, as well as a License to Carry Firearms issued by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
Self Defense is a human right as fundamental as free speech and religious freedom.
The validity of personal self-defense dates back in official forms, to the Roman times, was reinforced in the writings of John Locke and Thomas Hobbes, and is even specifically enumerated today in the UN’s “Universal Declaration of Human Rights”.
Over forty states in our Union acknowledge that individuals possess this fundamental human right, and allow law-abiding citizens to own and carry firearms for the defense of their persons and their families against the lawless predation of criminals. Many states also offer the privilege of carrying such defensive firearms in a concealed manner, if a citizen is law-abiding, has sufficient training, and has passed an extensive background check.
Hundreds of thousands of law-abiding citizens all over the United States have Concealed Carry Permits. We carry firearms every day, and do so in a peaceful, legal, and civil manner. We do so because we cherish our families, we value our own lives, and we are prudent, resourceful, and self-sufficient. We know that criminals of all types prey on innocent people every day, and we know that the police cannot be everywhere at all times.
Concealed Carry permit holders are ordinary people – we are mothers and fathers, grandparents and single moms, business owners and tourists. We love our families, we cherish our own lives, and we respect the laws of the land. We carry firearms NOT because we want to, but because we recognize the realities of modern life – that police are overworked and not omnipresent, and that crime and lawlessness may be thrust upon us at any time, unannounced. We carry because we love our families, we know that our families love us, and we have decided to take up the awesome personal responsibility of defending the safety of those we love. We study the laws of our states and those states where we travel, we receive training, and practice in the safe use of our firearms, but most of all, we hope and pray that we will NEVER be forced into a situation where we must deploy our legally-owned firearms in self defense.
We are not gun-nuts. We are not cowboys. We can not be pigeonholed into political, economic, or racial categories. We come from all walks of life, all strata of society – but the one thing that we all hold in common is that we cherish life, the lives and safety of our families, and we do not function under the assumption that the State is our personal bodyguard.
I have two stepdaughters who live in Maryland. One of my stepdaughters brought a beautiful baby girl into this world last fall. I love my daughters and granddaughter, and they love me. I visit them as often as I can. But were it not for my love of family, I will admit that I might never visit the State of Maryland – as a tourist, a student, a businessman or even as a traveller, because this state does not allow me to exercise my fundamental human right of self-defense. Even though I have concealed carry permits issued by multiple states, have undergone extensive training in the law and in the use of firearms, and have passed extensive criminal background checks and even psychological evaluations by those states and the Federal government, The State of Maryland denies me and hundreds of thousands of other law-abiding Americans the right to carry a firearm – a right that is recognized by over 40 other states.
The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania to your north recognizes Concealed Carry Permits from 17 other states. The State of West Virginia recognizes 20; Delaware - 18, and to your south, the Commonwealth of Virginia recognizes 23 other state’s permits. And yet Maryland grants reciprocity to NO other state in the Union.
I find it difficult to understand why the State of Maryland will recognize my drivers license, and allow me to drive a vehicle at highway speeds throughout their state (which requires no background checks or mental evaluations, and is a PRIVILEGE, not a basic human right) but sees fit to deny me (and hundreds of thousands of other Concealed Carry Permit holders nation-wide) the fundamental human right of lawful self-defense.
Because of this lack of reciprocity, tens of thousands of law-abiding citizens from your bordering States and Commonwealths avoid travel in Maryland, because they would rather miss the natural beauty and cultural richness of this State than subject themselves to the capricious whims of criminals without the legal right to defend themselves and their families.
If you do not support this bill based on the principle that is represents a fundamental human right, then you should at least consider supporting it for the increased revenue it will bring to your state. The continued denial of reciprocity to Concealed Carry Permit holders from your bordering states robs the State of Maryland of countless millions in tax revenues, tourism, and highway tolls.
You, the Delegates in this General Assembly, have within your grasp the ability, through this bill, to address a major human rights issue, increase tourism, travel and trade in your State, and substantially increase State revenues from the taxes gleaned from out-of-state travelers. Rarely does a bill come up for consideration that carries so many positive aspects for the State, the People of Maryland, and the fine People of your neighboring states.
The People want Reciprocity.
Please support House Bill 52.
Thank you.
I made a few slight adjustments to th etext during the hearings, and so the speech I delivered wasn't EXACTLY word for word the same as this text, but it's about 99% the same. Like I said, I made a few "spot edits" in the hour or so before I testified.
Like I said, I hope to be receiving a DVD with the video of this entire Committee session sometime in the next few weeks, and when I do, I will edit it down into manageable clips and posting it on YouTube...
(Bold words in text are to indicate spoken emphasis, as delivered by me...)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Support for HB-52
Tuesday, 26 January 2010
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
(The First Amendment of the Constitution for the United States of America.) I am glad that the Founding Fathers of this great nation saw fit to codify that it is indeed the right and duty of every citizen to ensure that our elected officials are fully aware of the interests of the People, and that we, the People, have a proper forum in which to voice our concerns. I am honored today to be able to address the General Assembly, concerning House Bill 52.
My name is xxxxxxxxxx, and I am a resident of North Carolina. I am 44 years old, and have been a Graphic Designer for over 20 years. I am currently pursuing my Masters Degree in Fine Arts at a major university. I received my Bachelor’s Degree from a small, private Liberal Arts college, and in my younger days, I was an Eagle Scout and a member of MENSA. My voters registration card says “Independent.”
Judging by my personal history, I am not the sort of person who most would consider to be a “Second Amendment Activist”. But I have driven over six hours across three states to support this bill because the one thing I have learned in 44 years is that my life and the life of my family is precious, and that is it not only my right, but my responsibility, and duty, as a father, a husband, and a law-abiding citizen to protect and defend the lives of those I hold dear.
And THAT is why I hold a Concealed Handgun Permit in the State of North Carolina, as well as a License to Carry Firearms issued by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
Self Defense is a human right as fundamental as free speech and religious freedom.
The validity of personal self-defense dates back in official forms, to the Roman times, was reinforced in the writings of John Locke and Thomas Hobbes, and is even specifically enumerated today in the UN’s “Universal Declaration of Human Rights”.
Over forty states in our Union acknowledge that individuals possess this fundamental human right, and allow law-abiding citizens to own and carry firearms for the defense of their persons and their families against the lawless predation of criminals. Many states also offer the privilege of carrying such defensive firearms in a concealed manner, if a citizen is law-abiding, has sufficient training, and has passed an extensive background check.
Hundreds of thousands of law-abiding citizens all over the United States have Concealed Carry Permits. We carry firearms every day, and do so in a peaceful, legal, and civil manner. We do so because we cherish our families, we value our own lives, and we are prudent, resourceful, and self-sufficient. We know that criminals of all types prey on innocent people every day, and we know that the police cannot be everywhere at all times.
Concealed Carry permit holders are ordinary people – we are mothers and fathers, grandparents and single moms, business owners and tourists. We love our families, we cherish our own lives, and we respect the laws of the land. We carry firearms NOT because we want to, but because we recognize the realities of modern life – that police are overworked and not omnipresent, and that crime and lawlessness may be thrust upon us at any time, unannounced. We carry because we love our families, we know that our families love us, and we have decided to take up the awesome personal responsibility of defending the safety of those we love. We study the laws of our states and those states where we travel, we receive training, and practice in the safe use of our firearms, but most of all, we hope and pray that we will NEVER be forced into a situation where we must deploy our legally-owned firearms in self defense.
We are not gun-nuts. We are not cowboys. We can not be pigeonholed into political, economic, or racial categories. We come from all walks of life, all strata of society – but the one thing that we all hold in common is that we cherish life, the lives and safety of our families, and we do not function under the assumption that the State is our personal bodyguard.
I have two stepdaughters who live in Maryland. One of my stepdaughters brought a beautiful baby girl into this world last fall. I love my daughters and granddaughter, and they love me. I visit them as often as I can. But were it not for my love of family, I will admit that I might never visit the State of Maryland – as a tourist, a student, a businessman or even as a traveller, because this state does not allow me to exercise my fundamental human right of self-defense. Even though I have concealed carry permits issued by multiple states, have undergone extensive training in the law and in the use of firearms, and have passed extensive criminal background checks and even psychological evaluations by those states and the Federal government, The State of Maryland denies me and hundreds of thousands of other law-abiding Americans the right to carry a firearm – a right that is recognized by over 40 other states.
The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania to your north recognizes Concealed Carry Permits from 17 other states. The State of West Virginia recognizes 20; Delaware - 18, and to your south, the Commonwealth of Virginia recognizes 23 other state’s permits. And yet Maryland grants reciprocity to NO other state in the Union.
I find it difficult to understand why the State of Maryland will recognize my drivers license, and allow me to drive a vehicle at highway speeds throughout their state (which requires no background checks or mental evaluations, and is a PRIVILEGE, not a basic human right) but sees fit to deny me (and hundreds of thousands of other Concealed Carry Permit holders nation-wide) the fundamental human right of lawful self-defense.
Because of this lack of reciprocity, tens of thousands of law-abiding citizens from your bordering States and Commonwealths avoid travel in Maryland, because they would rather miss the natural beauty and cultural richness of this State than subject themselves to the capricious whims of criminals without the legal right to defend themselves and their families.
If you do not support this bill based on the principle that is represents a fundamental human right, then you should at least consider supporting it for the increased revenue it will bring to your state. The continued denial of reciprocity to Concealed Carry Permit holders from your bordering states robs the State of Maryland of countless millions in tax revenues, tourism, and highway tolls.
You, the Delegates in this General Assembly, have within your grasp the ability, through this bill, to address a major human rights issue, increase tourism, travel and trade in your State, and substantially increase State revenues from the taxes gleaned from out-of-state travelers. Rarely does a bill come up for consideration that carries so many positive aspects for the State, the People of Maryland, and the fine People of your neighboring states.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”
This quotation is from the Declaration of Independence, and I am closing my presentation with these words to further reinforce the point that you, our elected officials, have as your primary charge, the obligation to represent the will of the People, to remind you that it is by the will of the People that you sit here today, and that it is your solemn obligation to faithfully represent the People in your deliberations.
The People want Reciprocity.
Please support House Bill 52.
Thank you.
farmplinker
New member
imported post
Dreamer, that is very well written. Great job. And thank you, too, for the personal reports about what happened yesterday.
BTW, I came and joined here because this forum was mentioned on the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association website, where I was getting other news about MD 52. I'm a realist, and don't expect MD to implement this bill, but there's always hope.
Dreamer, that is very well written. Great job. And thank you, too, for the personal reports about what happened yesterday.
BTW, I came and joined here because this forum was mentioned on the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association website, where I was getting other news about MD 52. I'm a realist, and don't expect MD to implement this bill, but there's always hope.
Tomahawk
Regular Member
imported post
9MM Owner wrote:
9MM Owner wrote:
I agree. MSP sound like a bunch of snotty children, who will test the waters by arresting people to see if they can get away with it.
Dreamer
Regular Member
imported post
Another thing that the MSP rep said in her presentation is that when they do their background checks, they consider an "ex parte" order against an individual to be a "disqualifying condition". She went on to asset that "ex parte" orders were synonymous with "restraining order". This is blatantly false...
"Ex Parte" is a Latin term use in Law that means "from one party". It is used in legal terms to mean a legal proceeding brought by one person in the absence of and without representation or notification of other parties.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_parte
This could be a restraining order, or a notice to pay child support, or simply a filing of divorce. It has nothing to do with restraining orders, assertions of violence or protection. It is simply a court decision made against someone who isn't there to answer to the accusation or defend themselves, and under MD law, the Court doesn't even have to notify the person that they have had such a decision levied against them...
Also, in MD, divorce lawyers often file restraining orders against men who are involved in divorce proceedings as a matter of course--regardless of their background, and evenif they have no history of domestic violence, and even if it is a non-contested divorce. It's just something they do as a matter of course.
And of course as we know, anyone with a restraining order is Federally disqualified from ever purchasing a firearm again.
This practice is unethical, and is damaging to liberty, and needs to be stopped.
The MSP's equation of "ex parte" rulings with "restraining orders" is blatant disinformation and intellectually dishonest. Their entire testimony should be disregarded and struck from the public record, due to the fact that is was Unconstitutionally biased, filled with half-truths and outright misleading information, and based on nothing more than a flagrant anti-2A position of civil disarmament.
People of Maryland, you're being held hostage by an oppressive oligarchy. Forget about MS-13, and the Bloods and Cripps. The REAL threat to civil liberty and public safety in MD are headquartered in the big, shiny office buildings in Annapolis and Pikesville...
WAKE UP, people of MD.
Another thing that the MSP rep said in her presentation is that when they do their background checks, they consider an "ex parte" order against an individual to be a "disqualifying condition". She went on to asset that "ex parte" orders were synonymous with "restraining order". This is blatantly false...
"Ex Parte" is a Latin term use in Law that means "from one party". It is used in legal terms to mean a legal proceeding brought by one person in the absence of and without representation or notification of other parties.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_parte
This could be a restraining order, or a notice to pay child support, or simply a filing of divorce. It has nothing to do with restraining orders, assertions of violence or protection. It is simply a court decision made against someone who isn't there to answer to the accusation or defend themselves, and under MD law, the Court doesn't even have to notify the person that they have had such a decision levied against them...
Also, in MD, divorce lawyers often file restraining orders against men who are involved in divorce proceedings as a matter of course--regardless of their background, and evenif they have no history of domestic violence, and even if it is a non-contested divorce. It's just something they do as a matter of course.
And of course as we know, anyone with a restraining order is Federally disqualified from ever purchasing a firearm again.
This practice is unethical, and is damaging to liberty, and needs to be stopped.
The MSP's equation of "ex parte" rulings with "restraining orders" is blatant disinformation and intellectually dishonest. Their entire testimony should be disregarded and struck from the public record, due to the fact that is was Unconstitutionally biased, filled with half-truths and outright misleading information, and based on nothing more than a flagrant anti-2A position of civil disarmament.
People of Maryland, you're being held hostage by an oppressive oligarchy. Forget about MS-13, and the Bloods and Cripps. The REAL threat to civil liberty and public safety in MD are headquartered in the big, shiny office buildings in Annapolis and Pikesville...
WAKE UP, people of MD.
The Donkey
New member
imported post
Very well done Dreamer.
(Ping me if you need a good Md Civil Rights lawyer)
Very well done Dreamer.
(Ping me if you need a good Md Civil Rights lawyer)
Dreamer
Regular Member
imported post
Actually, I've also forwarded this idea to the folks at the "Maryland Shall Issue" organization, and they are already on it, but are waiting to move until after the McDonald ruling, and to see how the Legislature ddeals with the pending 2a-related bills this session...
Actually, I've also forwarded this idea to the folks at the "Maryland Shall Issue" organization, and they are already on it, but are waiting to move until after the McDonald ruling, and to see how the Legislature ddeals with the pending 2a-related bills this session...
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
imported post
As a former Marylander, I am disgusted with what the socialists and neocomshave done to that state. I hold them in in absolute contempt.I knew a few MSP cops years ago that were 'good guys' in a bad department. The NKVD/STASSI type mentality was already endemic.
The MSP attitude: "they can't be trusted, and that most of those citizens from other states with permits would never meet MD's standards."
That utterance says it all. I for one... will never return for any reason whatever.
Good job Dreamer... Excellent!
As a former Marylander, I am disgusted with what the socialists and neocomshave done to that state. I hold them in in absolute contempt.I knew a few MSP cops years ago that were 'good guys' in a bad department. The NKVD/STASSI type mentality was already endemic.
The MSP attitude: "they can't be trusted, and that most of those citizens from other states with permits would never meet MD's standards."
That utterance says it all. I for one... will never return for any reason whatever.
Good job Dreamer... Excellent!
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
imported post
gador wrote:
gador wrote:
It's difficult to find. I had the link (once) but it was slightly over 4,000 active CCW permits statewide as I recall.