Question for Military personnel about OC

[SIGguy229]

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skidmark wrote:

Of course members of the military also carry the option of requesting that any oder from a superior be reduced to writing.

However, absent a written order, verbal orders are sufficient....depending on the situation...

 

[mobeewan]

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peter nap wrote:

durellusmc wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Isn't he as an LTC required to have his ID on him at all times?

All in all, you handled it well. I might have told him to go pound salt in my most colorful Jersey way, but that's me.

I know right. "go pound salt" lol I like that lol

He's new at insulting people...It's pound sand.

How did he know you were a Marine?
You handled it well BTW.

What ever he tells him he needs to remember to add "Sir" to the end of it.

 

[SouthernBoy]

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Tomahawk wrote:

SouthernBoy wrote:

WHERE IN THE HELL DOES THIS DIPS--T GET OFF GETTING ON YOUR CASE IF HE IS, IN FACT, MILITARY?? Who in the hell does he think he is? Since he is NOT upholding and defending the Constitution, would not that make him subject to a courts marshall for dereliction of duty? And if he is NOT defending the Constitution, what the hell IS he defending?

I need help here.

It's something some people don't understand, that once you are in the military they basically own you 24/7 until you get out. There really is no such thing as "off duty", not completely. And the Marine Corps, at least, is particularly concerned with Marines acting inappropriately in front of civilians. When I was a recruit I was told that if any superior NCO, SNCO, or officer stops you on the street you are to be respectful, and that if you are caughtmisbehaving youmay be held accountable.

Thus if you are drunk and stupid or wearing your uniform improperly LtCol Dip@#$% has the authority to light you up.

Being the military, with lots of egos and powertrips, many LtCol Dip@#$%s out there like to substitute their opinions for actual rules and throw their weight around.

There's nothing like that feeling the first time some jackass gets in your face and yells at you for something after you've gotten out but before your hair has grown in. You can finally tell him to go piss up a rope. People who spend their entire lives in the military never really get to experience that kind of off-the-leash freedom.

I understand the concept of chain of command and the 24/7 adherence to military standards. What bothers me is an officer NOT doing what he promised he would do when he took his oath. Of course, we can spread this around to include police and politicians if we are of a mind, but my God... the military???

 

[SouthernBoy]

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kaiheitai17 wrote:

To the best of my knowledge, unlike those unfortunate soldiers stationed/assigned to Army commands in Alaska, there is NO Marine Corps order by any commander of a base, station, or other command that forbids the carry of handguns for personal defense by Marines stationed in Virginia while off base. Of course on base is another story.

Sig229 guy is correct, doesn't matter as to your duty status, a service member is subject to all lawful orders. Even I, as a retired Marine, am still subject to all lawful orders from superior officers.

Is this right? I had no idea. If you are retired, doesn't that mean your responsibility has been severed and you are no longer answerable to military authority? Is this true for all branches of our military?

And the last question. If an active duty marine officer moved in next to you, found out you were retired, and started pushing his weight around, couldn't you just tell him to pound sand and sh-t in his hat?

 

[SIGguy229]

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http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/usc_sec_10_00000802----000-.html

Title 10, USC, Section 802, Art 2. UCMJ

Persons subject to this chapter:

"(3) Members of a reserve component while on inactive-duty training, but in the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal service.
(4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.
(5) Retired members of a reserve component who are receiving hospitalization from an armed force"

Basically, if you collect retired pay from Uncle...still subject to UCMJ...


In regards to your last question....what do you mean by "pushing his weight around"?...I need clarification on what you're getting at...

 

[kaiheitai17]

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What Sigguy said just previously. I'm getting a check monthly from Uncle Sugar, I'm still subject to the UCMJ. Imagine my surprise when I received my orders transferring me to the retired list. When I got to the line, "subject to recall at any time". Until then it had been my understanding that once I hit 30 years, I was no longer subject to recall.

 

[SouthernBoy]

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SIGguy229 wrote:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/usc_sec_10_00000802----000-.html

Title 10, USC, Section 802, Art 2. UCMJ

Persons subject to this chapter:

"(3) Members of a reserve component while on inactive-duty training, but in the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal service.
(4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.
(5) Retired members of a reserve component who are receiving hospitalization from an armed force"

Basically, if you collect retired pay from Uncle...still subject to UCMJ...


In regards to your last question....what do you mean by "pushing his weight around"?...I need clarification on what you're getting at...

Since I wrote this, I asked my wife about it. She worked as a civilian for both the Army and the Navy. She was pretty certain that retired military personnel were still subject to recall.

As for "pushing his weight around", let's just say the active duty neighbor did see the retired neighbor OC'ing a firearm and told him to cover it up. Not a suggestion, but delivered as an order. Would the retired neighbor be expected/required to follow this "order"?

 

[KBCraig]

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It might be different in a military community that is full of retirees, but my experience is that whenever someone spouts off that "I'm colonel so-and-so!", they probably washed out of basic training.

We hired one of my daughter's friends to do some yard work and manual labor while we're remodeling the house. We were paying him well, about $10 an hour plus feeding him lunch and sometimes supper. Unknown to my wife and I, he had a crush on Baby Girl, and she had turned him down for dates, but stayed friends with him. (I was especially surprised, because he gives off a huge gay vibe.)

At some point he started making snide remarks about my daughter's boyfriend, who is an Army 19D Cav Scout about to deploy, as being a "boy", while the Marines are where the "real men" are.

Check this out: this bozo got a big "DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR" tattoo across his chest, after he was washed out of USMC boot camp and administratively separated.

My wife pointed out that not only is the boyfriend a "real man" who actually finished his training, he's about to deploy. As are, it's worth mentioning, our oldest son and his wife, who are both active duty soldiers. And that I'm an Army veteran as well. And, oh by the way, here's your pay, I don't think we're going to need any more help.

Idiot.

 

[MackTheKnife]

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You said the right things: VA is open carry, 2nd Amendment, etc. You should have told him that it is a violation of the UCMJ for him to purport to be in the military and not have his ID on him. In the Navy, it is an Article 92 UCMJ violation and I'm sure it's the same for the USMC.

Do not let fools , like him, get you to change your mind about OC or CCW.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

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ProShooter wrote:

peter nap wrote:

He's new at insulting people...It's pound sand.

From the Urban Dictionary......





go pound salt

Often confused with 'go pound sand' but more refined and less vulgar. To pound sand infers 'up an orifice' but to pound salt has more to do with a useless activity.



See? Us Jersey boys is refined!

Being from NJ (shudder) and being fairly old, I recall it was "go pond sand (down a rathole)" if you were mildly angry but didn't want to be really insulting, or "go pound salt (up your a$$)" if you wanted to be more graphic, which we often were.

Now that I've been trained to be a Virginia gentleman, if someone is insulting or inappropriate, I'm more likely to say something like "That's very rude! Just how were you raised, sir?" Accusing someone of being poorly raised carries more weight here than up north, I think.

 

[paramedic70002]

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Never having been in the military, I'm thinking the conversation could have gone like this:

"Hey, Marine!"

"Do I know you?"

"Marine, you can't do that!"

"Why do you keep calling me Marine?"

"I am a LTC."

"OK. I never said I was a Marine."

And on and on...

 

[SIGguy229]

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SouthernBoy wrot

Since I wrote this, I asked my wife about it. She worked as a civilian for both the Army and the Navy. She was pretty certain that retired military personnel were still subject to recall.

As for "pushing his weight around", let's just say the active duty neighbor did see the retired neighbor OC'ing a firearm and told him to cover it up. Not a suggestion, but delivered as an order. Would the retired neighbor be expected/required to follow this "order"?


SIGGuy229 Response:
At this point, it would a pissing contest...because while the senior guy may be a pain in the ass, there would be no way for him to enforce his order. Nor would the senior guy be able to prefer charges because he's not in a command. Plus, there is no such structure to enforce an order, prefer charges, etc. Quite frankly, if someone like that moved in next door to me, I would what the OP did and respectfully explain state law. If he wanted to push the issue (two retirees), I would challenge him to go find a way to enforce his order--or we can just be neighbors.

Other than that, it would be up to the senior to deal with it.

 

[Infidel]

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durellusmc wrote:

No I couldn't remember which is another reason why I put Xxxx. Yea for some reason Marines are easily to spot lol.

Must be the hair! or lack of.:lol:

 

[Tomahawk]

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SouthernBoy wrote:

Tomahawk wrote: I understand the concept of chain of command and the 24/7 adherence to military standards. What bothers me is an officer NOT doing what he promised he would do when he took his oath. Of course, we can spread this around to include police and politicians if we are of a mind, but my God... the military???

Well, let's not be naive, here. People in the military are not concerned with the constitution on a daily basis, any more than cops are. Many, if not most, of them have never actually read the Constitution, and they just assume that most orders have some lawful authority behind them. Not following orders gets you into a lot more trouble than forgetting to read the Constitution.

And Lt. Col. Dipshit, if he was indeed a Lt. Col., was more concerned with throwing his weight around in the name of "good order and discipline".

BTW, allow me to put my pointy-headed Marine hat on here and say that the proper contraction for the rank of Lieutenant Colonel in the USMC is Lt. Col., not LTC, which is what the Army uses. The Marine Corps uses the old school contractions and never switched to the all-caps 3-letter ranks the Army uses. [takes off pointy-headed hat]

 

[AEubanks]

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Luckily for me, my chain of command is all about guns... The day I checked in all the guys were already asking me if I had my CHCL (which I did have one on the way from AR but didn't have it yet). We have the maps from here with the gun laws printed and hanging up in the company office.... I don't know of anyone that doesn't live in the barracks that doesn't own and carry (come CC, some OC)...

 

[AbNo]

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Tomahawk wrote:

BTW, allow me to put my pointy-headed Marine hat on here ....

Goes with that pointy hair in your avatar? :lol:

 

[ForeignDude]

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"Sir, with all due respect, I will not surrender my identification. Please cite the regulation that empowers you to prohibit lawful conduct by military personnel when off-duty and out of uniform." Polite, but firm.

Now, if you were carrying openly WHILE IN UNIFORM, that is a different matter. While you have the individual right to carry openly, wearing the uniform reflects on the Service, and so your conduct is thereby regulated even when "off-duty". No drinking alcohol while in uniform; no protesting while in uniform; no endorsement of private organizations while in uniform; etc.

Now, whether your Commanding Officer can prohibit OC/CCW off-post and off-duty, that is a grey area. IIRC, CDR of US Forces-Alaska has forbidden any personnel under his command to carry off-post (openly or concealed), period. The regulation stands; no successful challenge has been filed. There was a congressional request for clarification about this regulation, but I don't know whatever happened to it. Put simply, if you're stationed in Alaska, you're SOL.

 

[MackTheKnife]

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Being an alleged Marine, it was probably fuschia or chartreuse. LOL! (Former HM-8404 Devil Doc)

 

[SIGguy229]

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ForeignDude wrote:

"Sir, with all due respect, I will not surrender my identification. Please cite the regulation that empowers you to prohibit lawful conduct by military personnel when off-duty and out of uniform." Polite, but firm.

While I agree with your point about prohibiting lawful conduct...if requested, you must surrender your ID to a senior....that IS a lawful order.

 

[Bulldog1967]

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First,

Thanks for your service.

2nd, THIS Marine would tell the Lt. Col. to politely GTFO because we are not on base and I am breaking no laws.

Unbelievable.