Quote of the Day: Always Question Authority Edition

[Jeff Hayes]

BTW, "Arrested"? Is there a story there?

Yep, last two sentences of my last post. Stone sober I might add, I had just got off work walked into the bar and a Cop started asking me questions 30 seconds later I was cuffed and searched. I still have the receipt from Hy Phillips Bail Bonds it cost me $11.20 to get out of jail that night. Got hit with a night stick while cuffed and tripped and pushed into the van they transported us to jail in. They arrested 12 of us that night one of us had a hand cuff key and we handed the Cops their cuffs when we got out of the van at the jail. Judge tossed the charges out at the first court date. 2 of my buddies ended up with substantial settlements for being assaulted by the Cops in custody. I was subjected to felony stops for about 2 weeks after the arrest on an almost daily basis. I have never trusted a Cop since. I do not hate Cops but I will never trust one again they are not your friend ever.

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

Of course there's another option.
Just avoid the behavior that causes tickets to be issued and charges to be filed.

Even when that behavior is entirely legal and innocuous, Amlevin?

 

[davidmcbeth]

Assimlate! Resistance is futile!

Ahhhhhhh ! +1

 

[Jayd1981]

Infraction Rules for Courts of Limited Jurisdiction http://www.courts.wa.gov/court_rules/?fa=court_rules.list&group=clj&set=IRLJ

Other court rules:

http://www.courts.wa.gov/court_rules/?fa=court_rules.state&group=clj

Thanks for posting up the links. It is important to follow the information provided by the IRLJ. Last ticket I got, I contested. Just my luck I ended up being the last case heard so I got to watch everyone else that contested thier ticket first. In everyone else's case, they argued the ticket by saying they didn't see the speed limit sign, were not from around there, ect. Everyone else had thier ticket upheld and fine increased to reflect court costs.

I had requested discovery following the IRLJ procedure exactly, and the state failed to deliver discovery to me at all. My case was dismissed within a matter of minutes. Judge didn't even bother reading the officer's statement (which I did want to hear since it was never provided to me).

I agree you should contest every ticket, but just remember you need to do a little more work than just check the box to contest the ticket if you want it dismissed.

 

[gogodawgs]

Thanks for posting up the links. It is important to follow the information provided by the IRLJ. Last ticket I got, I contested. Just my luck I ended up being the last case heard so I got to watch everyone else that contested thier ticket first. In everyone else's case, they argued the ticket by saying they didn't see the speed limit sign, were not from around there, ect. Everyone else had thier ticket upheld and fine increased to reflect court costs.

I had requested discovery following the IRLJ procedure exactly, and the state failed to deliver discovery to me at all. My case was dismissed within a matter of minutes. Judge didn't even bother reading the officer's statement (which I did want to hear since it was never provided to me).

I agree you should contest every ticket, but just remember you need to do a little more work than just check the box to contest the ticket if you want it dismissed.

Correct and if anyone ever wants a form to request discovery, just PM me.

 

[davidmcbeth]

I had requested discovery following the IRLJ procedure exactly, and the state failed to deliver discovery to me at all. My case was dismissed within a matter of minutes. Judge didn't even bother reading the officer's statement (which I did want to hear since it was never provided to me).

Discovery is limited BUT you can conduct an "investigation" which can be almost limitless (except it cannot be discovery).

 

[gogodawgs]

Discovery is limited BUT you can conduct an "investigation" which can be almost limitless (except it cannot be discovery).

In an infraction, if you served the prosecutor and filed with the court for discovery and you do not receive any....it is a slam dunk for a dismissal. No reason to do an investigation.

 

[davidmcbeth]

In an infraction, if you served the prosecutor and filed with the court for discovery and you do not receive any....it is a slam dunk for a dismissal. No reason to do an investigation.

In this case, that was the result .... but since discovery is so limited, I thought I would just point out that the court rules also allow for an investigation ... a "FYI" ..

 

[END_THE_FED]

Correct, but what I get from this is....most people are intimidated by the system. They don't know how to ask for discovery for a simple speeding infraction. I would encourage everyone, every time to 'contest' (not guilty) any infraction they get, get discovery and then decide the appropriate course of action. Learn the rules of the court, IRLJ, and use them to your advantage. As some know I have a propensity of the last 27 years for speeding infractions. I have challenged them all and have had them all dismissed. Never paid any of them, never had any of them count against my insurance rates. (Yes, I know, slow down.)

In the past, when discussing this topic you have mentioned a message board you found helpful and informative, Could you please remind me of the name or post a link.

 

[gogodawgs]

In the past, when discussing this topic you have mentioned a message board you found helpful and informative, Could you please remind me of the name or post a link.

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/forum.php

There is a sub forum for traffic related issues and many other good forums.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

I agree you should contest every ticket, but just remember you need to do a little more work than just check the box to contest the ticket if you want it dismissed.

I say still check the box and plead not guilty on arraignment, even without discovery even when you know you loose. Use the system against itself they cannot handle all cases if everybody did this.

 

[END_THE_FED]

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/forum.php

There is a sub forum for traffic related issues and many other good forums.

Thank you

 

[Difdi]

Of course there's another option.

Just avoid the behavior that causes tickets to be issued and charges to be filed.

Even when that behavior is entirely legal and innocuous, Amlevin?

A very good point. Exercising any rights, minding your own business but looking "shifty" by a totally arbitrary standard, being mistaken for someone else, etc. All of these things can result in tickets and arrests.

I remember a few years ago, reading about a short white guy who got arrested (not in Washington) because the arresting officer wasn't listening to the description of the suspect, a tall black man...kinda hard to avoid the behavior that got the white guy arrested...

 

[Jeff Hayes]

Way back in the 70s there was a guy with my same name that had felony warrants for assault, battery and armed robbery. I kept getting felony stopped and hauled off, my Harley towed and impounded. Back then I had a lot of contact with law enforcement of all descriptions. The DMV pulled my DL 3 times and since I was driving a semi it was serious because I could not work. I was arrested once for non payment of child support the only problem was I had paid it and had the canceled checks. When we got to court for the child support the DA tried to offered us a deal and a payment plan, yep you read that right. Difdi is correct you can be arrested just because of your name or description or the wrong box checked by a government employee.

 

[bmg50cal]

Way back in the 70s there was a guy with my same name that had felony warrants for assault, battery and armed robbery. I kept getting felony stopped and hauled off, my Harley towed and impounded. Back then I had a lot of contact with law enforcement of all descriptions. The DMV pulled my DL 3 times and since I was driving a semi it was serious because I could not work. I was arrested once for non payment of child support the only problem was I had paid it and had the canceled checks. When we got to court for the child support the DA tried to offered us a deal and a payment plan, yep you read that right. Difdi is correct you can be arrested just because of your name or description or the wrong box checked by a government employee.

Where is the part that makes any of those arrests lawful?

 

[amlevin]

Where is the part that makes any of those arrests lawful?

I've always wondered why some people have so much contact with the law yet claim they did nothing to provoke it. Yet others go through life and the only time they ever have an interaction with a Cop is when they say "Hi" when entering/leaving a Starbucks.

 

[OC for ME]

I've always wondered why some people have so much contact with the law yet claim they did nothing to provoke it. Yet others go through life and the only time they ever have an interaction with a Cop is when they say "Hi" when entering/leaving a Starbucks.

Are all those "others" visibly and lawfully armed?

 

[Jeff Hayes]

Where is the part that makes any of those arrests lawful?

Unfortunately all of the arrests were perfectly legal. I did finally get the warrant stuff straightened up and the Cops would check my SS# and let me go.

Well back then all the Cops know when they ran your DL was that there was a warrant out for xxxx xxxxx and no amount of this is all a mistake officer made any difference.

The arrest for non payment of CS was due to the interstate child support act of 1980 my ex wife simply lied and told the Kalifornia authorities that I had not paid CS even though I was current and had never missed a CS payment. I paid my CS in Texas through the Chambers County Clerk who then forwarded it to the ex. Because I was in another state Kalifornia issued a warrant for my arrest sent it to Texas and they honored the warrant, simple as that. My neighbor was a Chambers County Sheriff and actually served the warrant and arrested me.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

I've always wondered why some people have so much contact with the law yet claim they did nothing to provoke it. Yet others go through life and the only time they ever have an interaction with a Cop is when they say "Hi" when entering/leaving a Starbucks.

amlevin I can tell you why I had so much contact with LE back in the late 60 and early to mid 70s. I was a patch holder and officer in a 1% MC club back then. Even though I avoided unlawful activities the simple fact that I rode a Harley and played with bikers was enough to get harassed by the Cops and the Feds every chance they got.

Now 40 years later I have OCed for years and besides the problem I had at the Spokane Convention Center last year I have never been bothered by the Cops or really anyone else outside of a few nasty looks most of my contacts have been positive.

Just in case you are wondering I was pretty clean cut back then, short hair, no facial hair, worked a steady job etc so without the patch and the Harley I looked like a regular everyday working guy.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

Are all those "others" visibly and lawfully armed?

Yes I have OCed for years and never had LE say a word about my firearm.