So you want to get tough ?

[Hcidem]

imported post

...from what little I've been able to read about non-profits in the past couple of weeks, I am not sure that we would be classified as a charity as the linked book indicates. We don't want to waste any effort in misclassifying the group.

I asked a few questions about a similar organization recently. They seemed to indicate that their operations were legally restricted according to the non-profit status under which they had organized themselves. I would like to ensure that we preserve the wide range of activities we have been able to support heretofore.

 

[DrTodd]

imported post

I would suggest anyone considering a non-profit to look this over:

http://www.mnaonline.org/pdf/GS%20Summary.pdf


And of course, the general website provides MUCH more info:

http://www.mnaonline.org/index.asp


And finally,

Non-profit =/= charity (non-profit does not equal charity)

Charity
–noun, plural -ties. 1. generous actions or donations to aid the poor, ill, or helpless: to devote one's life to charity. 2. something given to a person or persons in need; alms: She asked for work, not charity. 3. a charitable act or work. 4. a charitable fund, foundation, or institution: He left his estate to a charity. 5. benevolent feeling, esp. toward those in need or in disfavor: She looked so poor that we fed her out of charity. 6. leniency in judging others; forbearance: She was inclined to view our selfish behavior with charity. 7. Christian love; agape.

 

[Hcidem]

imported post

My family is a member of a non-profit association related to 1A rights. They hold tax-exempt status under IRS code section 501(c)4, which is for "social welfare organizations."

This allows them to participate in lobbying for legislation beyond the point where 501(c)3 charities begin to jeopardize their tax exempt status. We are similar to the group to the extent that we have some amount of interest in influencing legislation beyond our public relations and education initiatives.


http://www.irs.gov/charities/nonprofits/article/0,,id=96178,00.html

 

[Hcidem]

imported post

If we were to develop an approach similar to that of the organization I mentioned, our group's purpose might appear similar to this:



"Michigan Open Carryis a nonprofit advocacy organization established to defend and advance the constitutional right of Michigan citizens toopenly carryfirearmsand to protect self-defense freedoms. MOC is dozens of families united in service together, providing a strong voice when and where needed.


MOCconsults on the legal front on behalf of our members in matters which include conflicts with state or local officials over open carry. Member families receive helpful information by letter and phone, more are represented through negotiations with local officials, and others are given support during court proceedings. MOC also takes the offensive, filing actions to protect members against government intrusion and to establish legal precedent. On occasion, MOC will handle precedent-setting cases for nonmembers, as well.

MOC advocates on Capitol Hill by tracking federal legislation that affects open carry and firearm rights. MOC works to defeat or amend harmful bills, but also works proactively, introducing legislation to protect and preserve second amendment freedoms.

MOC advocates in the Michigan state legislature by assisting individual members in drafting language to improve their open carry legal environment and to fight harmful legislation.

MOC advocates in the media by presenting articulate and knowledgeable spokesmen to the press on the subject of open carry and second amendment rights. MOC members are regularly called upon for radio, television, and print interviews, and their writings are frequently published in newspapers and magazines across the state. MOC's own biweeklyinternet radio broadcast, Saturday Afternoon Shootout, can be heard anywhere in the world.

MOC advocates for the movement by commissioning and presenting quality research on the progress of open carry. Whether it’s in print, from the podium, or on the air, MOC provides insightful vision and leadership for the cause of open carry."



This corrupted version of another organization's published MO is meant to show how similar that 501(c)4 organization's activities are to our own. This is not meant to promote any of the above activities as those of MOC.

 

[Hcidem]

imported post

In order to obtain 501(c)4 status as a tax-exempt organization, a request must be filed for an IRS notice of determination regarding that status. The determination request requires a filing fee of $300 when the request is filed.


I suppose any of this structuring effort is possible, but I think we need to create a game plan (and budget) before we proceed on any of this.

 

[taxwhat]

imported post

Venator wrote:

Sowho wants to order the book on how to start a Michigan non-profit org? It's $40 includes shipping. It's the first book (015) on the link page below.

http://www.mnaonline.org/bookstore_detail.asp?publicationCategoryID=14

This woman is a saint .......................................................................................

Starting a Nonprofit‏




Jan,

I thought it would be more helpful to send email with links rather than trying to tell you how to get to the best websites on the phone.



Michigan Nonprofit Association has some resources on their webpage. If you go to the homepage, click on Resources and then choose Starting a Nonprofit, you will get a list of steps to take to start a nonprofit. Here is a link to the homepage, as well as one that should take you directly to the list:



http://www.mnaonline.org



http://www.mnaonline.org/pdf/GS%20Summary.pdf



Another more extensive resource is our Staying Legal MI website. This website focuses on charitable nonprofits. You can link to it from our homepage or simply go directly to http://www.stayinglegalmi.org. If you go to the page on Public Charities, you will find a summary of steps to take to form a public charity. The rest of the website offers information on almost every state or federal law that may apply to charitable organizations.



MNA is not currently offering seminars, and I did not see any on the statewide training calendar that specifically dealt with startup issues. We do offer a book on our online bookstore called Getting Started Booklet, Sixth Edition. It is the text we have used for our Getting Started seminars.



It is certainly possible to do all of the filings and make all of the required applications on your own by just reading the steps, getting the proper forms and following directions carefully. The most complicated step is filing for tax exempt status with the IRS. It requires Form 1023 for charitable nonprofits and Form 1024 for other tax exempt organizations.



There are consultants and also a clinic at the law school that is on the Michigan State University campus that offers assistance. To find consultants, you may want to look at MNA Service Directory on our homepage. Here is a link to the MSU College of Law nonprofit clinic: http://www.law.msu.edu/clinics/. Their phone number is 517-336-8088.



If you have other questions, please call me at 517-492-2421 or email. I usually work just 3 days/week (Monday, Tuesday & Wednesday), but I do check email on other days.



Marion





Marion Gorton

Public PolicySpecialist

Phone: 517-492-2421



Michigan Nonprofit Association

1048 Pierpont, Suite 3

Lansing, MI 48911

Phone:517-492-2400

Fax:517-492-2410

mgorton@mnaonline.org






Staying Legal for Michigan Nonprofits:a one-stop shop for state and federal laws and regulations affecting Michigan nonprofits. [url]http://www.stayinglegalmi.org[/url]

 

[taxwhat]

imported post

Please check with local library . mine will let me know on the book if available here . Told many Michigan books are in schools and collages . BY law ADA act a talking book may be coped for personal use .

 

[Hcidem]

imported post

How very nice of this woman to share her knowledge so freely.

Before proceeding further, I think we should consider which non-profit status we might pursue. One 2A organization in Michigan is prohibited from quite a few activities because it is classified as a charitable non-profit.

MOC's strength is in individual and small group activism and awareness education. Our group is also very concerned about legislative initiatives. Our effectiveness in these areas would be greatly reduced if we pursued classification as a charitable organization.

 

[taxwhat]

imported post

Hcidem wrote:

How very nice of this woman to share her knowledge so freely.

Before proceeding further, I think we should consider which non-profit status we might pursue. One 2A organization in Michigan is prohibited from quite a few activities because it is classified as a charitable non-profit.

MOC's strength is in individual and small group activism and awareness education. Our group is also very concerned about legislative initiatives. Our effectiveness in these areas would be greatly reduced if we pursued classification as a charitable organization.

Please elaborate .

 

[Hcidem]

imported post


The IRS states that 501(c)3 charities risk their tax-exempt status if theyparticipate in the following activities:

Political Campaign Intervention
[font="PGPMN C+ Univers,Univers"][font="PGPMN C+ Univers,Univers"]
Public[/font][/font]charities are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) a candidate for public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violation of this prohibition may result in revocation of tax-exempt status and/or imposition of certain excise taxes.

Legislative Activities
[font="PGPMN C+ Univers,Univers"][font="PGPMN C+ Univers,Univers"]
A public charity is not permitted to engage in substantial legislative activity (commonly referred to as lobbying). An organization will be regarded as attempting to influence legislation: if it contacts, or urges the public to contact, members or employees of a legislative body for purposes of proposing, supporting or opposing legislation; or if the organization advocates the adoption or rejection of legislation.

link to PDF: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4221pc.pdf
[/font][/font]

 

[taxwhat]

imported post

Hcidem wrote:

The IRS states that 501(c)3 charities risk their tax-exempt status if theyparticipate in the following activities:

Political Campaign Intervention
[font="PGPMN C+ Univers,Univers"][font="PGPMN C+ Univers,Univers"]
Public[/font][/font]charities are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) a candidate for public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violation of this prohibition may result in revocation of tax-exempt status and/or imposition of certain excise taxes.

Legislative Activities
[font="PGPMN C+ Univers,Univers"][font="PGPMN C+ Univers,Univers"]
A public charity is not permitted to engage in substantial legislative activity (commonly referred to as lobbying). An organization will be regarded as attempting to influence legislation: if it contacts, or urges the public to contact, members or employees of a legislative body for purposes of proposing, supporting or opposing legislation; or if the organization advocates the adoption or rejection of legislation.

link to PDF: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4221pc.pdf
[/font][/font]

Thinking that goal maybe to Educate and have fund for Legal protection from predatory attacks [ arrest] . So no need for PAC and at grass root NO funding for elections but telling the TRUTH would or should be theCRY Always the Truth .BTW BCBS IS NON profit

 

[Hcidem]

imported post

taxwhat wrote:

...
Thinking that goal maybe to Educate and have fund for Legal protection from predatory attacks [ arrest] . So no need for PAC and at grass root NO funding for elections but telling the TRUTH would or should be theCRY Always the Truth .BTW BCBS IS NON profit

By what you have stated, I still see MOC as a 501(c)4 "social welfare" organization, not a charity. A legal defense fund would not qualify as a charity. Any time MOC urges members to contact their representatives it would not qualify as a charity. Everything we have done to date would qualify us as a "social welfare" organization.

The NRA, AARP, HSLDA, and BCBS are all qualified as tax-exempt organizations under 501(c)4 because they are social welfare organizations, not charitable organizations.

 

[taxwhat]

imported post

Hcidem wrote:

taxwhat wrote:

...
Thinking that goal maybe to Educate and have fund for Legal protection from predatory attacks [ arrest] . So no need for PAC and at grass root NO funding for elections but telling the TRUTH would or should be theCRY Always the Truth .BTW BCBS IS NON profit

By what you have stated, I still see MOC as a 501(c)4 "social welfare" organization, not a charity. A legal defense fund would not qualify as a charity. Any time MOC urges members to contact their representatives it would not qualify as a charity. Everything we have done to date would qualify us as a "social welfare" organization.

The NRA, AARP, HSLDA, and BCBS are all qualified as tax-exempt organizations under 501(c)4 because they are social welfare organizations, not charitable organizations.

Do not believe I ever stated we should try for Charity ! If I did SHOW me .Just I feel we need Some form of protection IMO .

 

[Hcidem]

imported post

taxwhat wrote:

...
Do not believe I ever stated we should try for Charity ! If I did SHOW me .Just I feel we need Some form of protection IMO .

I'm glad to hear it! I just understood "charity" whenever you mentioned "501(c)3" instead of "501(c)4." Subsection 3 applies to charities while subsection 4 applies to social welfare groups; they are both tax-exempt, non-profit organizations, however.

Our protection actually will be obtained without help from the IRS. Protection is gained once we form a corporate entity with the state of Michigan. This is a fairly inexpensive process, but one which will require a certain amount of organization on our part.

 

[taxwhat]

imported post

Hcidem wrote:

taxwhat wrote:

...
Do not believe I ever stated we should try for Charity ! If I did SHOW me .Just I feel we need Some form of protection IMO .

I'm glad to hear it! I just understood "charity" whenever you mentioned "501(c)3" instead of "501(c)4." Subsection 3 applies to charities while subsection 4 applies to social welfare groups; they are both tax-exempt, non-profit organizations, however.

Our protection actually will be obtained without help from the IRS. Protection is gained once we form a corporate entity with the state of Michigan. This is a fairly inexpensive process, but one which will require a certain amount of organization on our part.

YES the IRS help ? that's a oxymoron !:what: This is a BIG deal ............Protection is gained once we form a corporate entity with the state of Michigan. This is a fairly inexpensive process, but one which will require a certain amount of organization on our part.
Please define the words [not to me !] to others !

 

[taxwhat]

imported post

NOW here is a PLAN lets make it happen !! What can YOU do ???
While that makes NO sense what so ever.
So the Converse is, if any part part of is covered it is considered Concealed.

I have a easy and simplistic remedy. There should be no such thing as open or concealed carry. There is just the right to carry, that's it no more. The Michigan Law says we all can carry. It never says open or concealed it just says carry. You have the right to choose the how to. That takes care of all misunderstandings, strange interpretations, confused judges and police officers and legal honest people trying to do right thing.

I under lined the last line because every person I know want to be legal and do the right thing. But no one seem to know what is right. It varies from town to town, county to county, and different police officers in the same town.

For sake of all people's sanity scrap, and delete, all of those insane CPL laws and follow the state constitution. carry is carry.

****************************************************************

Today Jan 16 2009 Temp is -10 and lower. I have to go out. I am wearing Tee shirt, dress shirt, heavy wool blend shirt, and a Goose down Eddie Bauer coat, good for -20 degrees, Bauer says.

How could anyone open carry in that outfit? Why would you want to subject your gun to -10 degrees.

Going in and out of heated buildings water is going to condense in it and on it. After several in and outs it could very well be iced to the point it won't work.


It makes no sense not to keep it next to your warm body and ready to function.





Last edited on Fri Jan 16th, 2009 12:06 pm by LaVere Taken and POSTED without LaVereKnowledge or permission ! Jan [Taxwhat ]

 

[taxwhat]

imported post

Sorry I wish for Good to Come from ALL ! So get up off your powder kegs and lead the way ! What have YOU done in LAST ten Days to make This Happen ?Role call PLEASE .:question:

 

[taxwhat]

imported post

All County Parks in Monroe now comply {to the best of my knowledge ] per County Lawyers .All TWP Parks also ! All twp meeting are Now !Villages are now on my list in Monroe County . This took Three months .

 

[joshuaeberly]

imported post

submitted FOIA request on the 13'th for engineering and electrical plans for our city PD. I need to know if there's ANY public access to the federal bankruptcy court in the same building. if there is not, I do believe that the "no guns past this point" sign in the PD is unlawful, and if there is, every individual, including myself, who had a handgun "safety inspected" on those premises committed a federal offense, and every officer who accepted a firearm for "safety inspection" aided in the commission of this federal offense.
Received a letter yesterday stating that they are extending their deadline another 10 days (to a total of 15) currently compiling my request and then will examine for "exemptions".
I am going to contact them monday, and offer them a compromise, I'll save them the trouble of compiling and examining those stacks of documents, if they get me my answer, NOW, without cost. (as they did not meet their deadline, and did not notify me of the extension until their deadline had expired).

 

[taxwhat]

imported post

We Need a BIG public turn out in Wayne County By Spring !Reason to get answers from All .IMO: this needs to be Very large OPEN to Public informational knock down no holds barred Educational Fact producing Legal Exchange of Hand gun ownership and OC and /or CC .A turn out of 500-2500 is a good goal . Now This will be a scary vision Q and A with Venator ,Dr Todd,Three others ,WC SHRIFF , WC Kim ,MIKE COX ,Sgt Tom Deasy Any one you can think of Invite them . Have been told I have Big Mouth So if nobody cared I would MC a Ask the Questions of a Panel Member [ ie; Sheriff , Mike Cox ,State rep] .Lets come out of the Dark ages soon ! Ask nice Demand answers make Government Do its Job "WE the PEOPLE "