Supressors OKed by AG

[jeremy05]

Thank god Michigan! Now I can bring all my toys back to Michigan when I ever move back!


Open Carry with a Suppressor? LOL some people just want attention.

 

[ElectricianLU58]

Open Carry with a Suppressor? LOL some people just want attention.

i have to agree.

 

[PDinDetroit]

Does anybody have a list of pistols designed to accept silencers? Also, who makes silencers for these pistols?

Specific Forum opened on MGO, should have much of what you are asking for shortly...

 

[scot623]

I don't care if people call the police on me.

Of course you don't. It's a good thing you aren't a member of MOC. Our goal is to educate and desensitize the public to the sight of an open carried pistol in public. This means we don't want people being afraid and calling the police, wasting the officers time and putting LEO's and OCers in a possibly bad situation.

Do us all a favor and stop OCing rifles and dreaming of OCing a P-22 with a silencer. In fact don't buy the silencer and put that money in a fund to send your daughter to college. I think she were prefer that to you buying a silencer for her gun.

 

[OC4me]

Since Suppressors haven't been available to the public before (in Michigan), I'll assume that a number of you (Michiganders) haven't had much experience with them.

I'll share a few thoughts as I've lived in Florida and have had the freedom of trying out a few rifles and/or pistols equipped with silencers.

First of all. The better term is suppressor as opposed to silencer. Although there are certain application exceptions, for the most part suppressor-equipped guns are not silent. A suppressor can usually only reduce a firearm's report by 20 to 30* something or so decibels. So for the most part, your firearm will still be loud.

If you have a firearm that is 150+ decibels unsuppressed, it will still be a hearing hazard even after suppressing it (although not as much).

Just saying! I'm all for suppressors to the point that I think they should be standard factory equipment. ;-) Just don't expect Hollywood-like performance.

*There might be some .22 cal models offering as much as 40 decibel reduction.

 

[stainless1911]

A P-22 wouldnt make a very good carry gun.

 

[PDinDetroit]

Since Suppressors haven't been available to the public before (in Michigan), I'll assume that a number of you (Michiganders) haven't had much experience with them.

I'll share a few thoughts as I've lived in Florida and have had the freedom of trying out a few rifles and/or pistols equipped with silencers.

First of all. The better term is suppressor as opposed to silencer. Although there are certain application exceptions, for the most part suppressor-equipped guns are not silent. A suppressor can usually only reduce a firearm's report by 20 to 30* something or so decibels. So for the most part, your firearm will still be loud.

If you have a firearm that is 150+ decibels unsuppressed, it will still be a hearing hazard even after suppressing it (although not as much).

Just saying! I'm all for suppressors to the point that I think they should be standard factory equipment. ;-) Just don't expect Hollywood-like performance.

*There might be some .22 cal models offering as much as 40 decibel reduction.

I would think some subsonic .22 LR rounds would be much quieter as well...

 

[stainless1911]

Subsonic rounds would be a must with any silenced caliber.

 

[PDinDetroit]

Subsonic rounds would be a must with any silenced caliber.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7682

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-57093.html

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-236482.html

Without reloading, you are paying BIG $$$ for Subsonic 5.56 NATO Ammo. With reloading, you are operating at A FRACTION OF 5.56 ROUND POWER, which severely degrades the round effectiveness on target.

 

[stainless1911]

Agreed. Light rounds also tend to dirty up a gun faster. I was referring to handgun rounds, as Im not experienced in reloading for rifles.

The sonic boom is going to produce a lot of the noise that a suppressor can't do anything about.

 

[mikestilly]

Depending on how you want to look at it, we've basically been flip flopping between 2 sides of the same corrupt coin since either Reagan or Bush 1. Obama is no exception, and I've seen nothing from Perry to believe he's any different.

Did you really just say that Reagan was corrupt? Complete nonsense.

 

[TheQ]

Reagan wasn't corrupt, just naive. He thought if the Democrats agreed to spending cuts in the out years in exchange for a tax increase "now" that those cuts would actually happen -- they didn't. He later wrote in his memoirs that he regrets that he was hoodwinked.

 

[CoonDog]

CONned by CONgress.

 

[OC4me]

I haven't had time to read the AG Opinion, but a thought just occurred to me that I want to throw out to everyone.

I'm wondering about 'who' is considered licensed and thus legally able to possess a suppressor in Michigan. Obviously, if an individual gets the LEO sign-off and personally applies for the Tax Stamp, that particular individual is licensed. But what if that person's spouse, child, or shooting buddy wants to try out their new toy at the range. Are they now in possession and (since they are technically not licensed) committing a crime?

On the other hand, suppose the alternate legal route is taken by forming a corporation/trust to apply for the tax stamp i.e. the corporation/trust would 'own' the suppressor. So technically the corporation/trust itself is licensed (and it could be argued that the person forming the corporation/trust is licensed but Michigan Law may not be so clear. Further, if a trust or corporation is the owner/licensee who, if anybody else, might be considered 'licensed' under Michigan law (i.e. other corporate shareholders or trust beneficiaries)?

This could get messy real fast.

 

[stainless1911]

You need a trust

See this:

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=238

 

[NHCGRPR45]

Subsonic rounds would be a must with any silenced caliber.

Well yes and no.
Yes if you want the most sound reduction at the cost of velocity. Heres the math the sound barrier limit is roughly 620 mph. What FPS is equal to that speed? 800 FPS = 545 mph. A fast way to convert fps (feet per second) to mph is this equation. Divide fps 3 and multiply the answer by 2. The result will be within 3%. Need the answer dead on? then do this calculation. Multiply the fps by 0.6818 to obtain mph. So given a .357 SIG winchester ranger "T" series muzzel velocity will be 1350. So do the math, 1350 x 0.06818 = 920.43 mph. knock off 300+ mph to drop the rounds "sonic boom" which is actulally more of a "crack" sound would bring this rounds usefullness down to nearly zero. Lets not forget the purpose of a "silencer". Its not to "silence" the gunshot. Its to make the gunshot sound like anything other than a gunshot.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7682

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-57093.html

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-236482.html

Without reloading, you are paying BIG $$$ for Subsonic 5.56 NATO Ammo. With reloading, you are operating at A FRACTION OF 5.56 ROUND POWER, which severely degrades the round effectiveness on target.

Yup. Not worth the effort, you need be be very close to stay within acceptable lethal ranges. IMO

Agreed. Light rounds also tend to dirty up a gun faster. I was referring to handgun rounds, as Im not experienced in reloading for rifles.

The sonic boom is going to produce a lot of the noise that a suppressor can't do anything about.

see above.

And lets not forget about the hardest part of this already long and drawn out process. Getting the CLEO signature! Harder for some people than others! To be frank this is the absolute hardest thing to do if you stainless plan to buy a suppressor. Before you can even submit your form 4 for BATFE approval you must have your local CLEO sign your form. Sucks but there it is. Some LEOS have no problem with doing this once they realize the aren't responseable for others stupidity, what this means is that should something bad happen he can't legally be held accountable. This is NOT a dig at you personally, I don't do that. What I stated is simple fact. I have lived out of state and owned suppressors I have the Form 4 with tax stamp to prove what I just stated. In LA my CLEO met me and his only question of why I wanted a suppressor was " why gemtech over AAC?" then rubber stamped my form. In MI? again since this is so new good luck, of course there is a way around this but it takes time. In Waterford, again you get my point.

I lived in a high crime area, and used a .45ACP kimber warrior, the sound of a gunshot inside a small bedroom is to put it mildly very impressive, with a suppressor its not as bad, and after the shot you can still hear well. This is nice if BG has back-up, you can still hear foot falls of other potential BG's. I hope this works out for us but again and AG opinions have worked well for us so far and in fact do carry a lot of weight! OC is but one example. I hope it works out but it will take time and effort by the few agaisnt the many. Its a very worthwhile goal and I really look forward to getting a supressor for my P226, but it will take an MSP update.

Hmmm how long do you think it will be before we see this? I hope not long! :banana:

 

[stainless1911]

You dont need a CLEO with a trust. I would need a trust anyhow because I like to shoot with my daughter.

If you stay around 1,000 fps, you're good. I load mine at around 900.

 

[Bronson]

the sound barrier limit is roughly 620 mph.

Speed of sound is closer to 760 mph at sea level. http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/atmosphere/q0126.shtml

And lets not forget about the hardest part of this already long and drawn out process. Getting the CLEO signature!

Not an issue with a NFA trust. Also, as I understand it, no photo or fingerprints required and multiple people can be named in the trust so they may all use and have access to the NFA items within that trust.

Bronson

 

[jeremy05]

I know in AZ getting the CLEO isn't a problem, nobody cares here, but what I heard is that if they deny you they have to state a reason why.

Also you can use your Sheriff to sign.

 

[StingMP9]

Originally Posted by Michigander
Depending on how you want to look at it, we've basically been flip flopping between 2 sides of the same corrupt coin since either Reagan or Bush 1. Obama is no exception, and I've seen nothing from Perry to believe he's any different.

Did you really just say that Reagan was corrupt? Complete nonsense.

I on the other hand congratulate him for the statement. Reagan was neck deep in Iran Contra and could have been impeached. All of us know that. What few are willing to find out is he was complicit with many other schemes that most will be blind to for at least another generation. Alex Jones doesn't have any facts, he recycles other more credible conspiracy theories in a "Tastes Great, Less filling" watered down way. The real sources point to stories that say Reagan swore allegiance to secret societies in Rome when he took office that had complete control over the "Cold War" farce and our monstrous "Star Wars" spending and every occupant of the Oval Office has repeated this allegiance since him. Our only protection from such bold onslaught on our freedoms is our Constitution and the Holy Bible in this country. The later more important tells us how to live free, the former guarantees the right to do so, especially with our beloved First and Second Amendments.

Perry on another hand will lie about his Texas school curriculum that allied with the Aga Khan muslim organization white washes all Islamic violence and keeps painting our culture as their satan. Complete violation of the 1st amendment to blend public school with religious culture which he mandated be taught in Texas.

I now prepare to hear how off topic or ignore claims that this is BS. It went off topic awhile ago and I don't care what you "believe"