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The Open Carry Report

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
Yesterday, 8pm, outside the college

Spent about 10 minutes chatting with the security guard after taking my math test. I was parked across the street from the college and my weapon was in the vehicle so when I opened the door, the first thing I did was "de empty" the empty holster that I carry on campus in protest.

Then we spent those 10 minutes or so chatting as we stood there for all to see. I figure it was good for a few folks to see the guard and a guy with a gun chatting in a friendly manner and smiling.....right across from the GASP college (and in fact on the sidewalk in front of the GASP county library.
 

GSXRrider

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
56
Location
Beaverton, ,
Actually the federal law does NOT apply to CHL holders due to an exemption in the federal law and the way Oregon state law is written.

USC Title 18, ss 922 says you can't carry a firearm "in a school zone" UNLESS you are licensed by the state to carry the firearm. The Oregon CHL is a license, issued by this state, which licenses the CHL holder to possess firearms (long gun or handgun not differentiated, see ORS 166-360 and 370). In this state, with a CHL, you are licensed to carry a FIREARM on school grounds by nature of those ORS.

Title 18, USC, ss 922, q, (1), originally enacted in 1990 but overturned by the US Supreme Court in 1995, was re enactd in 1996 but with far less "school zone" BS than the original.

18, USC, ss 921, defines school zone as 1000 feet and defines school as "primary or secondary" (which is K-12). Universities, Colleges, and professional schools ARE NOT primary or secondary education, they are "post secondary education".

I have pasted in the text from USC 18, 922 below, in part, (it's a really long one on a ton of BS crap that the congress seems to think they have the power to regulate because of the "interstate commerce clause"). Kind of like that gives them the power to regulate our health care and anything else they want to regulate just by saying "commerce clause".

If you want to read the entire section (it deals with transfers, intestate transfers, possession in "school zones", etc. There are also a few more exemptions after the point I stopped cutting. And Colleges and Universities do not fall under the gun free school zones due to ss 921 definitions. Without a license you can't be on their grounds or within 1000 feet but with an Oregon CHL you are exempt and, again, Colleges and Universities are NOT covered in 18 USC, 922. Only K-12 schools.

Pertinent Portion of US Code Title 18, ss 922, q

(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects
interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual
knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a
firearm -
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do
so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains
such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or
political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
under law to receive the license;

Know the law....in and out!!!!!!

In my opinion, 166.210 covers the definitions for a CHL (166.291), which it defines a handgun. 166.291 also uses the word handgun specifically, does not say anything about long guns. I see that Oregon law doesn't care about a long gun in a school zone if you are licensed. But federal law (in my opinion) overrides state law, and states that you must be licensed to carry that firearm, which CHL holders are not licensed for anything but a handgun.

166.210 Definitions. As used in ORS 166.250 to 166.270, 166.291 to 166.295 and 166.410 to 166.470:

(1) “Antique firearm” means:

(a) Any firearm, including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system, manufactured in or before 1898; and

(b) Any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (a) of this subsection if the replica:

(A) Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or

(B) Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

(2) “Corrections officer” has the meaning given that term in ORS 181.610.

(3) “Firearm” means a weapon, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile by the action of powder.

(4) “Firearms silencer” means any device for silencing, muffling or diminishing the report of a firearm.

(5) “Handgun” means any pistol or revolver using a fixed cartridge containing a propellant charge, primer and projectile, and designed to be aimed or fired otherwise than from the shoulder.

(6) “Machine gun” means a weapon of any description by whatever name known, loaded or unloaded, which is designed or modified to allow two or more shots to be fired by a single pressure on the trigger device.

(7) “Minor” means a person under 18 years of age.

(8) “Offense” has the meaning given that term in ORS 161.505.

(9) “Parole and probation officer” has the meaning given that term in ORS 181.610.

(10) “Peace officer” has the meaning given that term in ORS 133.005.

(11) “Short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having one or more barrels less than 16 inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle if the weapon has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

(12) “Short-barreled shotgun” means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun if the weapon has an overall length of less than 26 inches. [Amended by 1977 c.769 §1; 1979 c.779 §3; 1989 c.839 §1; 1993 c.735 §14; 1995 c.670 §3; 1999 c.1040 §2; 2001 c.666 §§32,44; 2003 c.614 §7; 2007 c.368 §1; 2009 c.610 §4]

http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html
 

Cremator75

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
392
Location
Beaverton, Oregon, USA
I have never seen anything about schools that mentions how you can carry. I have always CC'd to my kids functions because I did not want to become the star of the function, and I was not sure if OC at public schools was ok.
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
The state prohibits firearms on school grounds generally but exempts those with a CHL. This is, in our legal system, "license" to do so. Since state law, when it prohibits FIREARMS then exempts (or licenses) CHL holders (other than court houses, jails, etc.) then the Oregon CHL holder is licensed to have a FIREARM in those places that require a CHL to do so....and schools are one such place.

Now, while you couldn't do it at a school or other "public building", you CAN conceal a long gun (EXCEPT ON YOUR PERSON and with the restricted areas and ban cities still a concern) all you want in the state of Oregon WITHOUT a CHL. I'm not saying the police won't hassle you over it (we know they don't always know the law), but it is LEGAL.

So without a CHL, it's perfectly legal for me to walk down the street with my AR15, locked and loaded, concealed beneath a trench coat. Is that smart? Probably not, but it is LEGAL. It's also perfectly legal to Open Carry (with a CHL) onto school grounds (or city hall, county offices, the police station, planning department, city or county library, etc). Again, is it smart? That's up to you to decide.
 
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We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
If you have a CHL you can carry a loaded rifle anywhere you can carry a handgun, openly or concealed.

If you do NOT have a CHL you are subject to local "ban city" ordinances and to state law restrictions on those without CHL's such as "Public Building" (schools, colleges, gov't offices, etc.) HOWEVER... you CAN carry it loaded and concealed in your VEHICLE as the vehicle restriction on concealed firearms specifically states HANDGUN. Again, loaded carry ban cities would still effect the non CHL holder.

EDIT TO ADD: Your vehicle is, by recent case law, considered a "public place" if you're in a ban city so pay attention to the ban cities. (and there are more than listed at the top of the stickied thread).

Here is a rundown on the sections of state law.

166.170 is State pre emption
166.173 gives cities and counties the authority to regulate the carry of loaded firearms (concealable or not is not a condition so those bans also affect loaded long guns) but exempts CHL holders.

166.250 (1) (a) states you can't carry a firearm concealed upon your person.
166.250 (1) (c) Can not have a HANDGUN concealed and readily accessible in a vehicle.

166.260 (1) (h) Exempts CHL holders from the provisions of 166.250 (all of them)
166.260 (3) (b) Exempts licensed hunters and fishermen WHILE hunting or fishing AND while going to or returning from hunting or fishing (but be careful with this one as far as teh going to/from part as it can get tricky with a DA's interpretation....don't stop at the bait shop for instance).

166.360 gives definitions of some locations and weapons.
Capital Building - Court Facility (municipal courts are NOT included in the state definition) - Loaded Firearm - Public Building - Weapon - and others.
166.370 (1) Prohibits possession of a loaded or unloaded firearm in a "Public Building"
166.370 (2) Prohibits possession of a firearm or weapon in a "Court Facility"
166.370 (3) Lists those who 166.370 (1) does not apply to (370.(2) (courts does apply) and includes:

166.370 (3) (d) exempts CHL holders from 166.370 (1) (does not exempt from (2) courts)
166.370 (3) (g) allows possession of firearm on school property if unloaded & locked in vehicle (no CHL req)

We now return to the regularly scheduled program "Open Carry Report" if anyone wants to continue this further I'd be glad to discuss it in another thread.
 
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Dusty

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
13
Location
K Falls, Oregon, USA
Klamath Falls Bi-Mart

Open carry in Klamath as I usually do, however this trip I stopped at Bi-Mart and during my stay at the ammo counter was asked to leave by the clerk. Requested to talk to the store manager who told me open carry was not allowed in Bi-Mart. We had a good conversation , I did email Bi-Mart about the policy and received this in reply.

Dusty

I'm writing in response to your e-mail sent on Aug. 20th regarding our policy on customers possessing firearms while shopping in our stores. We understand that our customers have different comfort levels when it comes to firearms. To be considerate of all viewpoints, we ask that customers don't openly display firearms in the store. It is also our position not to post a "no firearms" policy, as we believe if the weapon is concealed and the carrier has the proper permits and training it should not be a concern to other shoppers. I have spoken to Russ the store manager, and have clarified with him that it is permissible for customers to carry concealed weapons.

If you have a permit to carry a concealed weapon you can shop without issue as long as the weapon remains concealed. I hope this clarifies our position.

Sincerely,

Rich Truett
V.P. of Store Operations
 

TheHossUSMC

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
130
Location
Eugene, Oregon, USA
Open carry in Klamath as I usually do, however this trip I stopped at Bi-Mart and during my stay at the ammo counter was asked to leave by the clerk. Requested to talk to the store manager who told me open carry was not allowed in Bi-Mart. We had a good conversation , I did email Bi-Mart about the policy and received this in reply.

Dusty

I'm writing in response to your e-mail sent on Aug. 20th regarding our policy on customers possessing firearms while shopping in our stores. We understand that our customers have different comfort levels when it comes to firearms. To be considerate of all viewpoints, we ask that customers don't openly display firearms in the store. It is also our position not to post a "no firearms" policy, as we believe if the weapon is concealed and the carrier has the proper permits and training it should not be a concern to other shoppers. I have spoken to Russ the store manager, and have clarified with him that it is permissible for customers to carry concealed weapons.

If you have a permit to carry a concealed weapon you can shop without issue as long as the weapon remains concealed. I hope this clarifies our position.

Sincerely,

Rich Truett
V.P. of Store Operations


I just sent this to Bi-mart

To whom it may concern

I was recently made privy to an e-mail that an acquaintance showed me from Rich Truett V.P. of Store Operations. In the e-mail rich details that while not restricting firearms all together that it is store policy that it must be concealed. I have two major problems with this. The first being that you restrict those who either cannot conceal carry, because of a lack of a license, or you restrict those who choose to openly carry. I find this reply totally unsatisfactory, and shows a total disconnect from those who shop in your store.

I personally have openly carried in almost all of your stores from Eugene to Portland without even a peep from anyone. I also have been a card carrying customer since 1998. I have spent thousands of dollars in your store over that time. I currently spend 100 or more dollars a week in your stores. My friends make fun on me by saying that Bi-mart is my favorite store, and they always know where I'm going when I say that I am going to my favorite store. After reading this e-mail I have concluded that Bi-mart is no longer my favorite store. In fact my feet will never cross the threshold of another one of your stores until this arbitrary unnecessary rule is lifted. Even Starbucks and Fred Meyer allow open carry. I am seriously disapointed in what I thought was a quality store.

Even with the difficulty of having to mail order the items that I currently buy at your store I am happy to do so to make the point to you that your customers care about their rights as Americans and will not stand for your arbitrary rules. I will encourage my friends and those who with I hold sway to avoid your stores as well.

Good day
 

trlambert1

Newbie
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
2
Location
Portland, Oregon, USA
Hello, all. I am new here, but I thought I'd post.

Last weekend I OC at Johnson Creek Fred Meyers (Portland area) twice, Penzey's Spices by Clackamas Town Center. No incident at either location.
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
Good job, particularly in Portland, and welcome to the OCDO. I carry openly daily with the exception of when I'm at school, and carry an empty holster openly in protest of their policy which violates state law.

Carrying in Portland I hope that you've read up on the laws (so you can spout them off if/when you do have a negative encounter) on firearms as well as on recording audio (and carry a digital audio recorder to document what actually happens if you do have an encounter).

There are a lot of threads here about audio and/or video recording and how it can be very beneficial. Just know the laws (you have to inform all parties if you're recording audio).

Be careful out there, and enjoy your LIBERTY.
 

XDSTEEL

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
216
Location
North Dakota
So basically I can not own a gun if I live within 1000 feet of a k-12 and secondary school. And I cannot carry (with out a State CHL) by a k-12 and seconday school with in a 1000ft? even if i was on the otherside of the street. apparently South Dakota reverts to the Act because I cannot find anything different
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
To KDSTEEL.... did you "hit" the wrong forum with that last post?

Open Carry Report....TODAY.

Medford Oregon:
Rogue Community College - Parked on street in front of the book store, got out, turned strong side to big windows of the store, grabbed my "list" and stuff from the car, THEN disarmed (to avoid expulsion not to comply with law) and went in with the empty holster. Got my books then out to the car, rearmed, drove around the block and parked same side of street as the wall of glass in front of the admin building.....then repeated the exit, strong side out, then disarm process...... walked in and did some printing then got my student ID updated. Walked back out, rearmed right in front of the admin windows, then left. And ya know what? NO ONE freaked out, no cops were called, no one ran screaming...... just another day in Oregon.

Best Buy - Went in to shop for a printer, just comparing prices among the offerings. Not a word was said about the weapon but plenty of help from several associates. Then had a long conversation with a fellow student I ran into in the store.

Umpqua Bank, Poplar at Hwy 62 Branch - Went inside to check on the status of a deposit. Nice conversation with the teller for about 5 minutes, no concerns mentioned about the firearm. (and this is NOT my regular branch).

WalMart, Eagle Point - Spent about 1.5 hours shopping and getting information on phone contracts. A few looks noticed but nothing more than an "oh he's packing" kind of look.

Another uneventful day in Southern Oregon.....AS IT SHOULD BE.
 

Teddybearfrmhell

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2010
Messages
348
Location
Cottage Grove, Oregon, USA
yesterday open carry in mongolian bbq medford, the tinseltown theater (very small "no firearms" sign which i regularly ignore, coldstone creamery, petsmart medford and am/pm and walmart in eagle point... no issues, not comments, no hard looks, no problems at all.
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
Discounting the security guards at college (empty holster there) I've had exactly THREE negative comments in over a year of 24/7 open carry. One was simply the RV Mall security guard telling me I couldn't come in due to mall policy (but basically said conceal and "we won't know" wink wink. The other was a manager of the corner store out here that said "you shouldn't have that in here" (shouldn't, not can't, oh well). Ahhh remembered a third....Waitress in nearby dinner noticed the weapon as I walked to the restroom and jumped...."is that a gun"...."that scares me". I explained that I'd been wearing it every time I'd been in before when she waited on me....."well I didn't know you had it"......Ignorance is bliss to some I guess.

All other comments have been inquisitive and/or positive. Usually "is that legal", "are you a police officer". The best was the little girl in Subway who said "mommy he has a gun". Mom says "does it scare you", little girl "yes", mom "deal with it". PRICELESS
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
Medford.
SOFCU Credit Union, Biddle Rd. Manager asked why I had a gun in her branch, I said I take it everywhere I go. She asked (nicely) that I cover it when I come to that branch as one of her tellers was robbed and would be freaked out if she saw it (and wasn't there that day). I started to explain that was irrational but she stopped me and said she understood that but that it would freak out her teller.

I told her I'd conceal if I came back to her branch (to be cooperative) and that if I forgot to kindly remind me and I'd step out and "fix" it.

TACO BELL on Hwy 62, White City: While waiting for my order to come up a little boy asked what kind of work I did (obviously leading to the gun) when I said I'm a college student he asked "you're not a cop". Mom is standing right there, smiling. I told him no I was just a citizen that wore the gun for self defense and that I usually carried a flyer to hand out but didn't have any with me. His mom piped in with something about being safer because I was there and no one would rob the place. Then he got too close and reached out to touch the holster. I saw the move and my arm was sweeping to keep his hand away though much easier than if a tactical move.

I said "you never touch a gun" and mom was pissed.....at him for trying to touch it I believe.... and told him that was it, let's go. I was a little surprised and shaken that I'd let a friendly encounter cause me to drop my guard and let it happen. Live and learn.
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
MEDFORD APPLEBEES on Biddle Rd last night:
Went to a social function that had nothing to do with firearms and was pleased to see that there were THREE of 18 attendees Open Carrying.

No issues from the establishment, other attendees, etc.

OUTSTANDING!!!!!
 

Teddybearfrmhell

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2010
Messages
348
Location
Cottage Grove, Oregon, USA
MEDFORD APPLEBEES on Biddle Rd last night:
Went to a social function that had nothing to do with firearms and was pleased to see that there were THREE of 18 attendees Open Carrying.

No issues from the establishment, other attendees, etc.

OUTSTANDING!!!!!

kinda like the founding fathers intended huh? celebrate democratic process while armed!
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
Yup, it was like "hey, I'm starting to feel like I'm really in a free country"

Now if I can just get school to stop considering me a "problem" for simply using the first amendment to discuss the second amendment and our rights. They don't seem to like the students learning anything about government except what they want to tell them.

Gotta love that "free and open exchange of ideas" mantra.
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
MEDFORD: Well the "corner store" put up a handwritten "no guns allowed in store" sign. I walked up to go in for my smokes and the poor clerk was all appollogetic and showed me the sign (which I hadn't even seen or looked for).

Now 3 days later the sign is gone after a multitude of complaints from customers (not open carriers). Not the kind of action that is taken lightly around these parts, especially during hunting season.

SCORE 1 for freedom.
 
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