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Then shoot me... If I'm stealing your money by threat of force then shoot me...

77zach

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
People generally who are for paying taxes, are not paying any. Same reason I have found that some of the most vocal anti gun are felons.

Yep. I've met more than a couple anti gun people who have admitted they would not trust themselves to carry a firearm, therefore everyone must have their freedom restricted. Yet they're fine with state employees having unfettered access to any weaponry. Truly bizarre.
 

77zach

Regular Member
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Feb 5, 2007
Messages
2,913
Location
Marion County, FL
Bolded is the foundation upon which the rest of his argument rests. And, it contains at least one unstated false premise: society is government/government is society.

His is sloppy thinking, a failure to perceive a distinction/difference. He says, "Yes, you are a part of a larger body of people," and then calls it the United States of America. The government is not the nation. The nation is the people. The government is the government.

Further, he offers no substantiation for why "you have to do things to contribute to this country". He just asserts it. Now, if he uses the usual explanation this mentality offers, he'll be along shortly and say something like, "you receive benefits, therefore you must pay", without actually explaining why you or I should pay even for the benefits we might agree are benefits if we did not actually agree to the obligation voluntarily.

His whole argument rests on a socialist/communist construct. The individual owes to "society". Society is much or everything; the individual is little or nothing.

They'll use any and every argument to justify their position that it is legitimate for them to coerce (threaten violence) to force you to pay. They will even distort consent all to hell. But, the one thing they won't do is cleanly explain why its OK for some equals to coerce money from other equals. Their arguments are always full of holes. They're really just avoiding coming right out and saying, "because I want to", which would really just prove they're lying about consent and equality. Nope, they can't afford to do that.

We can submit to them...or die. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyenRCJ_4Ww

The difference between Primus, et al's America and North Korea is one of degree, not quality. The North Koreans owe their life (such as it is) to the state. If they're so ungrateful to the Dear Leader that they don't want to do their part for the good of the country, they are free to try and escape. Maybe they'll get shot, maybe they won't. Staying is consent.
 

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
We paid around 12,000 last year~~Your turn...

about 1K, while making less then 10,000 that year. in federal that is... later got 350 back as a refund...

so net, I used no federal benefits that year also... or any year....

so that comes out to being what 9% of my annual income...... maybe ten, earnings were like 9,46 something and change.... to be exact.
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
about 1K, while making less then 10,000 that year. in federal that is... later got 350 back as a refund...

so net, I used no federal benefits that year also... or any year....

so that comes out to being what 9% of my annual income...... maybe ten, earnings were like 9,46 something and change.... to be exact.

So you didn't pay jack, 650 after return, :lol::lol::lol: Of course your for more taxes.:rolleyes:

BTW 650 IS NOT 10% of 10,000, let me guess you went to public school also...

BTW if you made 10,000 and deducted yourself I doubt you paid 650. The deductions would have knocked the amount down to paying zero.

Filing single deduction $5,950 And that is not including the adjustment for claiming dependents, which would be about 3,800 for yourself. So in reality you filed taxes on a little more than 1,000 which I highly doubt you paid 650, if anything.

As I said those that are tax cheerleaders are usually not paying their fair share.
 
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EMNofSeattle

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S. Kitsap, Washington state
So you didn't pay jack, 650 after return, :lol::lol::lol: Of course your for more taxes.:rolleyes:

BTW 650 IS NOT 10% of 10,000, let me guess you went to public school also...

9%. I subracted the probable amount of sales taxes I paid, along with taxes on the products I buy.

looking at my checkbook register I'm going to estimate in all taxes I paid including state my after tax income would be 7100.

so closer.

if I maid more money I'd pay more taxes, there's nothing hypocritical about a position like that at all.

I doubt you were paying 12000 dollars a year in taxes when you were starting out....

when I make 100K a year, I'll pay 12000 a year in taxes. as I make more money I'll pay more and so it willingly.

but the long story short is, net positive, I do in fact pay taxes. you want to switch positions income wise with me? be my guest....

BTW if you made 10,000 and deducted yourself I doubt you paid 650. The deductions would have knocked the amount down to paying zero.

I only claimed 350 for refund.

here's a trick, if you want to voluntarily claim less then you're entitled to recieve under the tax code, honestly report your income and then when handfilling the form write "350" in the refund box. that's the only one the IRS actually looks at...

you make the mistake of thinking I'm for "more taxes" I'm not, I'm for everyone paying taxes. pick a percentage amount and pay that, when it gets to really large businesses, their taxes should be based on negative externalities as a result of their business. (for instance, a company that pollutes should be assessed a tax based on cleanup costs)
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
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Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
9%. I subracted the probable amount of sales taxes I paid, along with taxes on the products I buy.

looking at my checkbook register I'm going to estimate in all taxes I paid including state my after tax income would be 7100.

so closer.

if I maid more money I'd pay more taxes, there's nothing hypocritical about a position like that at all.

I doubt you were paying 12000 dollars a year in taxes when you were starting out....

when I make 100K a year, I'll pay 12000 a year in taxes. as I make more money I'll pay more and so it willingly.

but the long story short is, net positive, I do in fact pay taxes. you want to switch positions income wise with me? be my guest....



I only claimed 350 for refund.

here's a trick, if you want to voluntarily claim less then you're entitled to recieve under the tax code, honestly report your income and then when handfilling the form write "350" in the refund box. that's the only one the IRS actually looks at...

I don't buy it, and I did not ask you about sales taxes. You do not pay what you expect others to pay, you do not come even close. You do know that you can pay above the tax rate. You can donate money to pay the debt. I suggest before you decide we need to pay 35% in income taxes and you pay none does not add to your credibility.

As I said before those who pay no to little taxes are the advocates for more taxes, as long as somebody else pays them.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
You should learn to duck, instead of yelping. How much taxes do you pay?

As far as "income tax" it's zero for EMN, most users here, you, and I.

Most of us are neither liable nor the subject of the "income tax".

If him, you, or anyone has money withheld form their pay, it's because they are socialist whether they know/admit it or not.
 

WalkingWolf

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Messages
11,930
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North Carolina
As far as "income tax" it's zero for EMN, most users here, you, and I.

Most of us are neither liable nor the subject of the "income tax".

If him, you, or anyone has money withheld form their pay, it's because they are socialist whether they know/admit it or not.

You either have money withheld or pay estimate tax payments, or you go to jail. Only way to avoid income tax is to earn to little to pay them.
 

WalkingWolf

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Messages
11,930
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North Carolina
Cite the law please.

You're making the claim, now, back it up.

Al Capone, income tax evasion! Wesley Snipes 3 years failing to file tax returns. I am not looking through the codes this late. But you are a fool if you think they do not exist. HOW the he!! are people being prosecuted if no laws exist. If I find them and post them tonight I expect you to admit to their existence and playing stupid games.

25.1.7.1 (10-30-2009)
Overview

This section discusses the various procedures concerning fraud in a failure to file case.

Willful failure to file a tax return is a misdemeanor pursuant to IRC § 7203. In cases where an overt act of evasion occurred, willful failure to file may be elevated to a felony under IRC § 7201, Tax Evasion.

If failure to file a return is fraudulent, a civil penalty known as the "fraudulent failure to file (FFTF) penalty" may apply under IRC § 6651(f). This penalty may apply to all returns due after 12/31/1989 (determined without regard to extensions).

Note:

The civil fraud penalty may be applied to all returns required to be filed on or before 12/31/1989.

Specific guidance on fraud indicators and the development of fraud can be found under IRM 25.1.1 and 25.1.2.

IRM 20.1 provides specific procedures for assertion of the FFTF penalty.

That is just for not filing, do want me to look up income tax evasion also? Or are you going to admit to buffoonary? Surely you cannot be that ignorant to the law.
 
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Freedom1Man

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Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Al Capone, income tax evasion! Wesley Snipes 3 years failing to file tax returns. I am not looking through the codes this late. But you are a fool if you think they do not exist. HOW the he!! are people being prosecuted if no laws exist. If I find them and post them tonight I expect you to admit to their existence and playing stupid games.

If the law is so easy to find then cite it!

The judges have said that the law is not welcome in the courts. It's easy to convict people who are ignorant.

As for Snipes, I remember reading his case and his argument was invalid on it's face. He tried to sue the IRS.
 

WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
If the law is so easy to find then cite it!

The judges have said that the law is not welcome in the courts. It's easy to convict people who are ignorant.

As for Snipes, I remember reading his case and his argument was invalid on it's face. He tried to sue the IRS.

I did cite it! Are you that ignorant that you are unaware of tax laws that require you to file and pay taxes? What the He!! do you think this thread is about.

Honestly I get so tired of otherwise intelligent posters acting ignorant.
 

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
I don't buy it, and I did not ask you about sales taxes. You do not pay what you expect others to pay, you do not come even close. You do know that you can pay above the tax rate. You can donate money to pay the debt. I suggest before you decide we need to pay 35% in income taxes and you pay none does not add to your credibility.

As I said before those who pay no to little taxes are the advocates for more taxes, as long as somebody else pays them.

I never asked anyone to pay more taxes, other then extremely large businesses that avoid taxes on purpose and recieve massive public subsidy.

also you do not pay 35% in taxes..... that rate is only assessed on all income over 250K. if you only paid 12K in federal taxes it is pretty reasonable to presume you're not making enough to trigger the 35% rate.
 
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Freedom1Man

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Location
Greater Eastside Washington
I did cite it! Are you that ignorant that you are unaware of tax laws that require you to file and pay taxes? What the He!! do you think this thread is about.

Honestly I get so tired of otherwise intelligent posters acting ignorant.

No you didn't.

Cite the liability and the law that make your earnings the subject of the income tax.

You've only cited punishments.

Your argument is like me saying, that robbery is a crime and so thus, you're a robber.

Title 26 USC Section 1461 is the only liability for the "income tax" found in the law.

Title 26 USC section 7701(a)(16) shows who a "withholding agent" is.
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Are you that stupid? If there are punishments for a act that is clearly spelled out it is against the law. Next you will claim murder is not against the law, that there are only punishments. Go ahead do not file or lie on your forms to avoid paying taxes, write me a not when they catch up to you. And may I remind you encouraging breaking the law is against site rules.
 
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