Under-rated or overlooked rounds for self defense

[kwikrnu]

7.62x25
7.62x39
7.62x51
5.56x45
.500 S&W
.50 AE

All great self-defense rounds for the above pistols.

 

[Kirbinator]

What the heck is that on top?

 

[kwikrnu]

.308 winchester / 7.62x51 vector v51p

 

[1245A Defender]

spain

star modelo super in 9mm largo same cartridge as 9x23 winchester
these guns look like 1911's, but are very different
this one made in 1975 cost me $160 from sarco.inc
the ammo was made in 1977 and is not readily available, but i got a box of CCI at a gun show.
i have about 600 rds of the old stuff
i bought a box of 9x23 which is like very +P, and isnt recommended,
But it feeds and fires just fine!!
the decal under the ejection port covers the serial number!

 

[Beerme]

Here are some overlooked self defense handgun ammo you forgot:
s&w .500
s&w .460
5.56x45 (.223 remmington)
7.62x39
7.62x25
.308 winchester

COMMENT REMOVED BY MODERATOR: Personal attack

 

[Elkad]

I wish someone would make a modern pistol and carbine in 7.62x25mm (yes I know there are some handmade AR15 conversions, not the same)

 

[Daylen]

12 gauge
20 gauge
.410 (maybe, I know alot of people like the Judge)

 

[MKEgal]

O.M.G.
You did a lavender Hello Kitty gun?
LOL!!!! I love it. Way to make the Evil Black Gun less frightening to the sheeple.

 

[Daylen]

So that is the price we pay for getting women and girls interested in firearms...

Steep is the price of liberty

 

[kwikrnu]

I put up a video regarding how easy it is to shoot a ak pistol with one hand. The ak pistol in 7.62x39 is IMHO the perfect handgun for self-defense. Cheap, cheap ammo, looks good, high capacity magazines, what else could anyone want?

Link

 

[Michigander]

I put up a video regarding how easy it is to shoot a ak pistol with one hand. The ak pistol in 7.62x39 is IMHO the perfect handgun for self-defense. Cheap, cheap ammo, looks good, high capacity magazines, what else could anyone want?

Link

Are you kidding?

The video consists of an orange gun, which is a color almost universally used to imply toy. This is not a good color for a gun.

Also, I don't consider it to be a good option at all. Holsters for it are going to be big and obnoxious, if you can even find or make one. Sling carry lacks both trigger and muzzle control. The capacity is good, but over penetration, extreme noise and wasted energy converted into it are no good, nor is a selection of ideal ammo readily available for urban defense.

I compared 10mm HP to x39 HP. The x39 came out of a 20" barrel, and the 10 came out of a 4.5" barrel. The 10mm up close demonstrated twice the devastation on wet phone books. With the loss of barrel length, you're looking at an extremely lowered performance round.

Even with a 20" barrel, x39 doesn't tend to go much faster than 2400 fps, which still isn't quite fast enough to attain good temporary cavity expansion like a 3000 ish+ fps round, which is probably why the commies developed the 5.45.

X39 counts on that added barrel length to transfer the most energy via its velocity. You could get some fancy factory ammo or good handloads with more aggressive than usual HP bullets, but best case scenario it's still going to be a serious over penetration risk.

I could suggest 40 guns I'd rather carry every day than an AK pistol.

 

[since9]

I concur, Michigander. The title is "Under-rated or overlooked rounds for self defense."

Implicit in the title are the following axioms:

1. "Self-defense" implies "civilian."

2. "Civilian" implies "non-battlefield i.e. urban jungle environments, with innocent men, women, and children."

3. "Innocent men, women, and children" imply "over-penetration is a no-no."

4. "Over-penetration is a no-no" implies "handgun velocities + hallowpoints"

So, give the aforementioned axioms, how many rounds are left out of what's been mentioned so far?

Not many, particularly not 3000+ fps FMJs.

Come on, folks - let's focus on the need, and address that. A .410 shotgun pistol is certainly a contender, as are the usual rounds from .22 to .50 cal, provided the larger rounds use some serious expansion so as to minimize over-penetration.

I previously mentioned I use Winchester 9mm XST (same as the old Black Talons, but without the lubalox coating), and for several reasons, not the least of which a friend and former LEO highly recommended them. The fact I can now put 6 rounds a second on a man-sized target at 15 yards tends to undermine arguements that the 9mm round is "ineffective." I can reliably put 2 to 3 .44 magnum rounds on target in the same time, but overpenetration is a huge issue. I want to stop the perp, not blow his skull and bone shrapnel into the eyes of everyone standing behind him.

 

[kwikrnu]

I concur, Michigander. The title is "Under-rated or overlooked rounds for self defense."

Implicit in the title are the following axioms:

1. "Self-defense" implies "civilian."

2. "Civilian" implies "non-battlefield i.e. urban jungle environments, with innocent men, women, and children."

3. "Innocent men, women, and children" imply "over-penetration is a no-no."

4. "Over-penetration is a no-no" implies "handgun velocities + hallowpoints"

So, give the aforementioned axioms, how many rounds are left out of what's been mentioned so far?

Not many, particularly not 3000+ fps FMJs.

Come on, folks - let's focus on the need, and address that. A .410 shotgun pistol is certainly a contender, as are the usual rounds from .22 to .50 cal, provided the larger rounds use some serious expansion so as to minimize over-penetration.

I previously mentioned I use Winchester 9mm XST (same as the old Black Talons, but without the lubalox coating), and for several reasons, not the least of which a friend and former LEO highly recommended them. The fact I can now put 6 rounds a second on a man-sized target at 15 yards tends to undermine arguements that the 9mm round is "ineffective." I can reliably put 2 to 3 .44 magnum rounds on target in the same time, but overpenetration is a huge issue. I want to stop the perp, not blow his skull and bone shrapnel into the eyes of everyone standing behind him.

Self-defense implies defending one's self from harm. There are plenty of "bad guys" who use body armor rated for up to .44 magnum. How are you going to defend yourself from someone wearing body armor?

 

[since9]

Self-defense implies defending one's self from harm. There are plenty of "bad guys" who use body armor rated for up to .44 magnum. How are you going to defend yourself from someone wearing body armor?

Two shots to the chest, one to the head, same as I was taught throughout my career in the military.

 

[kwikrnu]

Two shots to the chest, one to the head, same as I was taught throughout my career in the military.

I'd rather use a large caliber handgun.

 

[oak1971]

357 Sig. It's an oddball, but there are still production guns that shoot it.

The performance is impressive.

 

[kwikrnu]

357 Sig. It's an oddball, but there are still production guns that shoot it.

The performance is impressive.

I have a glock 32, but both the 7.62x39 and 7.62x51 are more impressive.

 

[since9]

I'd rather use a large caliber handgun.

It's not going to make a much difference against modern body armor. It's like getting hit by two linesmen instead of one. You'll have to ramp things up to high-powered hunting rifle standards.

When it comes to body armor and handguns, it's more about accuracy and technique than raw stopping power. I prefer a caliber that I can bring back onto target in 0.25 seconds over one that packs twice the punch but takes twice as long to bring back on target, particularly if there are multiple targets.

Back to reality, just what percentage of BG's wear body armor? 0.5% A tenth of that? For the other 99.5% of the BG's, both speed and accuracy are more important.

For the exceedingly few who do use body armor, two to the chest, one to the head, takes care of them just fine.

 

[kwikrnu]

It's not going to make a much difference against modern body armor. It's like getting hit by two linesmen instead of one. You'll have to ramp things up to high-powered hunting rifle standards.

7.62x51 and .45-70 handguns don't penetrate modern body armor? :lol: 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 handguns penetrate too.

 

[KansasMustang]

It's not going to make a much difference against modern body armor. It's like getting hit by two linesmen instead of one. You'll have to ramp things up to high-powered hunting rifle standards.

When it comes to body armor and handguns, it's more about accuracy and technique than raw stopping power. I prefer a caliber that I can bring back onto target in 0.25 seconds over one that packs twice the punch but takes twice as long to bring back on target, particularly if there are multiple targets.

Back to reality, just what percentage of BG's wear body armor? 0.5% A tenth of that? For the other 99.5% of the BG's, both speed and accuracy are more important.

For the exceedingly few who do use body armor, two to the chest, one to the head, takes care of them just fine.

You'd love my XD45. Hardly any recoil and back on target very quick. But still a "Mog" drill is always best for any situation. Trouble is with a .45 you're gonna have trouble tracking a blooown back target.