OldCurlyWolf
Regular Member
The "T" shot takes care of that small percentage wearing body armor. Triple tap, always.
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
Under-rated or overlooked rounds for self defense
- Thread starter Cavalryman
- Start date
The "T" shot takes care of that small percentage wearing body armor. Triple tap, always.
One that most folks dismiss out of hand may surprise some-.25 acp, when fed the right ammo. No, it's not the best choice by any means-my primary,preferred round is .45 acp at a minimum.
But, I decided to do some tests myself a few months back with my old Raven, just to see if that round was as ineffective, inaccurate, etc. as everyone says. (whether they've fired it themselves, or not..)
The results with Speer 35 grain Gold Dots surprised the heck out of me.
I set up a 1" thick plank of pine inside the leg of an old pair of jeans-because I had doubts the round would even penetrate denim-much less the wood inside. Behind this I placed 3 water jugs,filled.
Fired one round @ 7meters-penetrated the wood and all denim, and all 3 water jugs, and embedded itself in the trunk of an oak tree another 20 feet past the jugs. Didnt expand, going through the denim and the pine-but.. penetration certainly wasnt an issue.
As to accuracy- from the Raven, and at 25 feet- could place all 6 rounds into a playing card, rapid-fired. Not too shabby I dont think..Not a whopping man-stopping load, but- if needed as a last-ditch weapon, I wouldnt hesistate to make use of it, provided I can get the shots where they need to be.
I can say this much- I was once a by-stander at a shooting over 25 yrs. ago or so. I took one .25 round into the back of my right hand.It entered along the back/top of my hand between my ring and middle finger knuckles, and slid along the back of my hand just beneath the skin, until just before my wrist and stopped.
At the time I thought I had just been grazed. But a while later,felt the lump of the slug in my hand-went to E/R had it taken out. Still got the round, actually. FMJ.
To this day, I occasionally have trouble with that hand. I lack as much articulation with it, am prone to bouts of tendonitis in that hand, and when the weather gets cold/damp I feel that shot like it was yesterday..sooo....
Another, non-handgun ,load that will surprise a lot of folks. .410 in #4 shot, and the 3x 000 buck loads. I hear a lot of "experts" in other forums suggest the #4 load to folks for home defense-claiming it wont over-penetrate, etc.
Or, the inverse- that it wont do much more than minor surface-wounds to the bad guy, etc.
I've tested these loads also. My results?: dont take that advice. It WILL result, someday, in friendlies getting shredded -downrange. #4 WILL -out to 25meters- penetrate almost every houshold interior construction material (sheetrock, studs, doors,and even ceramic wall tiles.) I even fired one shell through an old, metal, exterior front door. It completely went through it from 25 meters, and shredded the plywood behind it.
(Lest anyone wonder,These materials were laying around a property after an old out-building had been torn down to be re-built-no I wasnt just shooting up my or someone's home to test the loads .lol)
Same goes for the 000 loads. They grouped surprisingly tight out to 25 meters, and penetrated everything the #4 loads did, and then some.
Now, these were fired from an old NEF/H&R .410 single-shot. Not the new Tuarus Judges. I've not yet had the chance to try that.
But, I decided to do some tests myself a few months back with my old Raven, just to see if that round was as ineffective, inaccurate, etc. as everyone says. (whether they've fired it themselves, or not..)
The results with Speer 35 grain Gold Dots surprised the heck out of me.
I set up a 1" thick plank of pine inside the leg of an old pair of jeans-because I had doubts the round would even penetrate denim-much less the wood inside. Behind this I placed 3 water jugs,filled.
Fired one round @ 7meters-penetrated the wood and all denim, and all 3 water jugs, and embedded itself in the trunk of an oak tree another 20 feet past the jugs. Didnt expand, going through the denim and the pine-but.. penetration certainly wasnt an issue.
As to accuracy- from the Raven, and at 25 feet- could place all 6 rounds into a playing card, rapid-fired. Not too shabby I dont think..Not a whopping man-stopping load, but- if needed as a last-ditch weapon, I wouldnt hesistate to make use of it, provided I can get the shots where they need to be.
I can say this much- I was once a by-stander at a shooting over 25 yrs. ago or so. I took one .25 round into the back of my right hand.It entered along the back/top of my hand between my ring and middle finger knuckles, and slid along the back of my hand just beneath the skin, until just before my wrist and stopped.
At the time I thought I had just been grazed. But a while later,felt the lump of the slug in my hand-went to E/R had it taken out. Still got the round, actually. FMJ.
To this day, I occasionally have trouble with that hand. I lack as much articulation with it, am prone to bouts of tendonitis in that hand, and when the weather gets cold/damp I feel that shot like it was yesterday..sooo....
Another, non-handgun ,load that will surprise a lot of folks. .410 in #4 shot, and the 3x 000 buck loads. I hear a lot of "experts" in other forums suggest the #4 load to folks for home defense-claiming it wont over-penetrate, etc.
Or, the inverse- that it wont do much more than minor surface-wounds to the bad guy, etc.
I've tested these loads also. My results?: dont take that advice. It WILL result, someday, in friendlies getting shredded -downrange. #4 WILL -out to 25meters- penetrate almost every houshold interior construction material (sheetrock, studs, doors,and even ceramic wall tiles.) I even fired one shell through an old, metal, exterior front door. It completely went through it from 25 meters, and shredded the plywood behind it.
(Lest anyone wonder,These materials were laying around a property after an old out-building had been torn down to be re-built-no I wasnt just shooting up my or someone's home to test the loads .lol)
Same goes for the 000 loads. They grouped surprisingly tight out to 25 meters, and penetrated everything the #4 loads did, and then some.
Now, these were fired from an old NEF/H&R .410 single-shot. Not the new Tuarus Judges. I've not yet had the chance to try that.
Thundar
Regular Member
38 Super
Great round that will, I believe, become much more popular as more handguns are made for it.
Great round that will, I believe, become much more popular as more handguns are made for it.
G20-IWB24/7
Regular Member
9x25 Dillon
The 10mm case necked down to fire a .355 bullet. The GLOCK 20 provides the perfect platform for it as well. Just a bbl swap needed to make the conversion. Flush fit mag equals 16 rounds of a big-brother version of the .357 Sig.
125gr Bonded JHP @ 1700FPS w/ 803ft lbs.???
Not bad coming from a holstered weapon versus a rifle!
The 10mm case necked down to fire a .355 bullet. The GLOCK 20 provides the perfect platform for it as well. Just a bbl swap needed to make the conversion. Flush fit mag equals 16 rounds of a big-brother version of the .357 Sig.
125gr Bonded JHP @ 1700FPS w/ 803ft lbs.???
Not bad coming from a holstered weapon versus a rifle!
stickbow95
Regular Member
I can think of plenty of holstered weapons that far exceed those numbers, and a rifle with those numbers is fairly anemic.
However, I do agree that those numbers are excellent when you also take into account size, weight, and magazine capacity of the firearm.
I would have to question the usefullness of cartridges however, that are only available from a select few sources, at high prices.
This is one of the interesting ones however... It's available on a common, proven platform (Glock), the same platform can be used for more available ammo, and a .22 conversion can be used for low buck practice.
Looks like I may have to look into getting a Glock (don't tell my XDm
)
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
I agree with Kwik.
"conventional" handguns just aren't it. Even the .223/PLR-16 is weak stuff. All .223 ammo should be pink.
I spent 5 years of my life manufacturing and test-firing .50BMG rifles. Maybe it gives me an advantage. I don't think the recoil of an AK pistol is at all unreasonable. I laugh at the 10mm.
Personally, firing a handgun one-handed just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Conventional handguns put both hands on the same spot for marginal increase in accuracy. Shoot an AK pistol, seriously, daily, for a month or so, and tell me you're even half as accurate with a conventional handgun. I dare you.
I'm just finishing up a homebuilt AK pistol from an AMD65 kit. Got rid of the PLR-16, might sell the 1911, too.
Mine won't be orange, even thought it is a good, hard-to-ignore color that certainly draws a BG's attention. Maybe it'll be pastel pink/purple/yellow/blue? Or just parkerize it and move on? Ohh, yellow and black stripes, like a hornet. Or that DeWalt AR that's going around... Sissy gun...
The AK lends itself to a handgun. It's not that accurate beyond 200yds. It's sledge-hammer reliable. Have you seen the lint in your Kimber lately?
Just like riding a Motorcycle, if you intend to prevent a problem, you'll have to be SEEN. It's the same concept as OC compared to CC. If no one sees it, it isn't preventing anything. Making it really hard to miss only makes it do the job so much better.
I see nothing wrong with using orange, but it is often used for toys. That's not Kwik's fault. I probably won't do that simply because I want to avoid that asinine retort from people who want to attack their fellow man instead of think it through rationally.
Come on Florida.....
Oh, and I vote for 7.62x39, dur...
"conventional" handguns just aren't it. Even the .223/PLR-16 is weak stuff. All .223 ammo should be pink.
I spent 5 years of my life manufacturing and test-firing .50BMG rifles. Maybe it gives me an advantage. I don't think the recoil of an AK pistol is at all unreasonable. I laugh at the 10mm.
Personally, firing a handgun one-handed just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Conventional handguns put both hands on the same spot for marginal increase in accuracy. Shoot an AK pistol, seriously, daily, for a month or so, and tell me you're even half as accurate with a conventional handgun. I dare you.
I'm just finishing up a homebuilt AK pistol from an AMD65 kit. Got rid of the PLR-16, might sell the 1911, too.
Mine won't be orange, even thought it is a good, hard-to-ignore color that certainly draws a BG's attention. Maybe it'll be pastel pink/purple/yellow/blue? Or just parkerize it and move on? Ohh, yellow and black stripes, like a hornet. Or that DeWalt AR that's going around... Sissy gun...
The AK lends itself to a handgun. It's not that accurate beyond 200yds. It's sledge-hammer reliable. Have you seen the lint in your Kimber lately?
Just like riding a Motorcycle, if you intend to prevent a problem, you'll have to be SEEN. It's the same concept as OC compared to CC. If no one sees it, it isn't preventing anything. Making it really hard to miss only makes it do the job so much better.
I see nothing wrong with using orange, but it is often used for toys. That's not Kwik's fault. I probably won't do that simply because I want to avoid that asinine retort from people who want to attack their fellow man instead of think it through rationally.
Come on Florida.....
Oh, and I vote for 7.62x39, dur...
Last edited:
Not too much to having a handgun chambered for it Thundar. Take a 9mm barrel and run a 38Super reamer in it and you're done.
I have a S&W model 39 I rechambered for the Super back in the 70's.
It's a great round.