Voice Recorder Pays Off!!

[LEO 229]

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Citizen...

Sorry for the encounter....

I have stopped many people that had a CC permit return. I treat EVERYONE liked they are armed!! Each time I return to the window I look for their hands.

I do not rely on the permit to tell me there is a gun in the car. For me.. the only time I really car about the CC return is if I catch them CCing and they do not have a permit or... during the encounter they have abad attitude. I then call for backup.

I have had a few people kindly tell me they have a permit and they were or were not packing. I appreciate knowing but really do not care.... unless they are the guy with the attitude. In that case.. I may need to actually take his gun.

This would be the only time I take it and that is based on what I feel is a person who is armed and a credible threat at that moment. Otherwise... I let them keep it.

If you have CC permit... you have been checked out. I am going to always keep an eye on you and ask you to remain in your car while I return to my car.

Now it worries me that this cop would say he could shoot you for getting out of your car at that moment. He can order you back into your car and if you refused.... he could keep an eye on you while requesting backup. But you would still need to produce your weapon before he can shoot you.

I noticed you excluded your nameand labeled yourself as "Driver"..... I was looking forward to getting that info...

 

[tjdempster]

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LEO 229 wrote:

ama-gi wrote:

Citizens are armed all the time. Simply standing up without a visible weapon and without any threatening gestures is NOT enough to use deadly force. Of course, with the blue wall of silence, he probably feels pretty secure that he can get away with it. It just shows who the really dangerous people are.

Just using common sense (and the LAW), any person who shot a guy walking towards him with empty hands that simply said "I have a gun" would be put away for murder...MAYBE manslaughter.

Perhaps we should forward this link to local media.

Once again.... "Let's go above and beyond!! Let's tell the media! And CC the FBI too!! This needs to be investigated by them now!"

:banghead:


Your the guy who would always jump the chain of command and go straight to the top guy in charge to complaint that an employee stole your bag of chip out of your lunch bag.

Get over your cop hating ways. :cuss:

JUST because we as law abiding citizens would like police to treat citizens respectfully does NOT mean we hate them. YOU always take things to the extreme opposite of what was meant or said. When a police officer acts inappropriately he / she SHOULD be reported. As evidenced by recent events in Manassas reporting them to their local supervision does little good. Maybe they all should be reported to the FBI!!

 

[LEO 229]

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tjdempster wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

ama-gi wrote:

Citizens are armed all the time. Simply standing up without a visible weapon and without any threatening gestures is NOT enough to use deadly force. Of course, with the blue wall of silence, he probably feels pretty secure that he can get away with it. It just shows who the really dangerous people are.

Just using common sense (and the LAW), any person who shot a guy walking towards him with empty hands that simply said "I have a gun" would be put away for murder...MAYBE manslaughter.

Perhaps we should forward this link to local media.

Once again.... "Let's go above and beyond!! Let's tell the media! And CC the FBI too!! This needs to be investigated by them now!"

:banghead:


Your the guy who would always jump the chain of command and go straight to the top guy in charge to complaint that an employee stole your bag of chip out of your lunch bag.

Get over your cop hating ways. :cuss:

JUST because we as law abiding citizens would like police to treat citizens respectfully does NOT mean we hate them. YOU always take things to the extreme opposite of what was meant or said. When a police officer acts inappropriately he / she SHOULD be reported. As evidenced by recent events in Manassas reporting them to their local supervision does little good. Maybe they all should be reported to the FBI!!

I have a history with this current member.. He DOES hate the police. He is here to propagate his hatred on this board.

The post was directed at one member. Not you or any other members who are indifferent. You must still give the department the chance to investigate. If itwas to skip the lower level... your court case could bypass all the lower courts and go straight the the highest court. The idea isto give the higher levelfewer cases so they can take more time in making their decisions.

 

[lax]

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The officer was over the top saying he would shoot if you got out of the car. Hopefully a simple letter to his boss will make him think through what he said and regret it if he hasn't already done so. Sorry, I don't see this as a big deal requiring media attention.

 

[LEO 229]

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lax wrote:

The officer was over the top saying he would shoot if you got out of the car. Hopefully a simple letter to his boss will make him think through what he said and regret it if he hasn't already done so. Sorry, I don't see this as a big deal requiring media attention.

Agreed.... this was not necessary.

His actions should be reported so that he can be molded into a better officer.

 

[Pa. Patriot]

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LEO 229 wrote:

Once again.... "Let's go above and beyond!! Let's tell the media! And CC the FBI too!! This needs to be investigated by them now!"

Once again you are defending the indefensible :what:

First you defended pointing guns at someone illegally. (danbus)
Now intimidating threats about shooting someone for no good reason. (CHP does not = armed)

And you wonder why people have a problem with the police.

 

[LEO 229]

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Pa. Patriot wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

Once again.... "Let's go above and beyond!! Let's tell the media! And CC the FBI too!! This needs to be investigated by them now!"

Once again you are defending the indefensible :what:

First you defended pointing guns at someone illegally. (danbus)
Now intimidating threats about shooting someone for no good reason. (CHP does not = armed)

And you wonder why people have a problem with the police.

Oh Stop and play nice.. I was trying to be funny. But you took the chance to bash me instead.

:celebrate

 

[kurtmax_0]

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Some people have legitimate reasons to hate the police.

It may not be logical to brand all police as bastards because of one incident, but you would definately hold them in low regard...

 

[LEO 229]

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kurtmax_0 wrote:

Some people have legitimate reasons to hate the police.

It may not be logical to brand all police as bastards because of one incident, but you would definately hold them in low regard...

A little off topic...

I can understand that..

I have had many bad encounters with members here who are assclowns. I am mature and wise enough to know that there is always an assclown in every group....


Navigating back on course again....

 

[IanB]

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Traffic Stop Ends in Shooting


By Julie Sturmgewehr

Washington Prost Staff Writer
Wednesday, September 12, 2007; Page B04

A traffic stop in Fairfax County ended tragically Saturday afternoon when an officer shot a motorist. In the aftermath, a City of Fairfax man is in the hospital with two gunshot wounds to his leg and shoulder, and a Fairfax County Police Officer is on paid leave while the shooting is under investigation. It is normal department policy for officers to be removed from police duties following a shooting. The FBI is also investigating the actions of Officer Buckholtz, who says the motorist was carrying a holstered gun during the traffic stop. The facts regarding the shooting remain unclear, what is known comes from the officer’s car dash camera. The Fairfax County man, who has not been identified, was pulled over by Officer Buckholtz for a broken tail light; a minor traffic infraction. In the video the motorist tells the officer he doesn’t believe his tail light could be broken, claiming it was replaced less than a month ago during his VA state vehicle inspection. Officer Buckholtz tells the motorist to exit his vehicle, presumably to show the motorist the broken tail light. What happens next is unclear, but the video shows the man stepping out of his car with a holstered pistol on his belt. The officer is heard telling the man to put his hands up, and then four shots are fired. The video shows the motorist attempting to comply and the man never reached for the pistol. It’s unclear why the officer fired upon the motorist. Virginia, like many other states allows the carry of pistols as long as they are not concealed. Police Chief David Rohrer expects the investigation to take one month but would not provide any further details or comment on the case.


©2007The Washington Prost Company

 

[Marco]

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edit: i should have known.

 

[ijusam]

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I think this "News Story" is bull!!! can't find the article on Washington post website, cant find with google, and no link provided. prove me wrong if I am.

 

[IanB]

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Re-read the story, I think you'll find clues about it's authenticity. I made it all up.

Julie Sturmgewehr

Washington Prost

 

[smccomas]

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ijusam wrote:

I think this "News Story" is bull!!! can't find the article on Washington post website, cant find with google, and no link provided. prove me wrong if I am.

UMMM its from the "Washington Prost" Think about it.

 

[smccomas]

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nakedshoplifter wrote:

Re-read the story, I think you'll find clues about it's authenticity. I made it all up.

That was good.

 

[SouthernBoy]

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What I find most disturbing in all of this is the fact that the officer said that he would have shot the individual had he gotten out of his car. He didn't say he might have shot.. he said he would have shot him. This means that the chance of the officer opening deadly force hostilities is 100%.

I would hope that if just such a situation did occur, the citizen would have returned fire with the most extreme prejudice because an action like this from a law enforcement officer requires deadly force from the citizen.

This officer's comments and potential deadly behavior are outrageous and I can only hope he winds up pushing a broom somewhere for his efforts and his mouth.

 

[sjhipple]

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LEO 229 wrote:

tjdempster wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

ama-gi wrote:

Citizens are armed all the time. Simply standing up without a visible weapon and without any threatening gestures is NOT enough to use deadly force. Of course, with the blue wall of silence, he probably feels pretty secure that he can get away with it. It just shows who the really dangerous people are.

Just using common sense (and the LAW), any person who shot a guy walking towards him with empty hands that simply said "I have a gun" would be put away for murder...MAYBE manslaughter.

Perhaps we should forward this link to local media.

Once again.... "Let's go above and beyond!! Let's tell the media! And CC the FBI too!! This needs to be investigated by them now!"

:banghead:


Your the guy who would always jump the chain of command and go straight to the top guy in charge to complaint that an employee stole your bag of chip out of your lunch bag.

Get over your cop hating ways. :cuss:

JUST because we as law abiding citizens would like police to treat citizens respectfully does NOT mean we hate them. YOU always take things to the extreme opposite of what was meant or said. When a police officer acts inappropriately he / she SHOULD be reported. As evidenced by recent events in Manassas reporting them to their local supervision does little good. Maybe they all should be reported to the FBI!!

I have a history with this current member.. He DOES hate the police. He is here to propagate his hatred on this board.

That's not true.I don't hate police. All I've said on this and other boards is my own version of the Bush Doctrine... I "make no differentiation between the bad cops and the "good cops" who harbor them." A good cop who covers up/defends a bad cop is a bad cop.

Cops often defend the undefendable. I think both sides have been hashed out well on this board so I won't go into the argument about whether murder is ok if you wear a badge and whether death threats are "minor" things requiring "training."

 

[Citizen]

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SouthernBoy wrote:

I would hope that if just such a situation did occur, the citizen would have returned fire with the most extreme prejudice because an action like this from a law enforcement officer requires deadly force from the citizen.

Well, the describeddeadly-force assault from anybody would authorize a defensive use of lethal force.A policeman's office has no bearing on it.

I think by now some one or more in the police dept. have picked up on the overall ideatouched on above. Namely that:

Unlawful fireby a police officer makes the CHP holder's return fire justified in the common law. A CHP holder, fired upon in the circumstances decribed by the officer, could lawfully return fire. An officer,under the circumstances, could very well get himself lawfully shot.

 

[Placementvs.Calibur]

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What I'm saying should not be misinterpreted as hatred towards the police. I respect the job they do and hold them in high regard. One bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch. However, there is a general misinterpretation bythe policeregarding the gun laws in our state. Virginia is one of the states that recognizes that a law biding citizen has the right to carry a firearm in the open or concealed and is intelligent enough to use the firearm for the betterment of society, either by protecting ourselves, loved ones, or even the defenseless common man. It's time that this philosophy is taught in police training and that this grudge against us able body citizens be extinguished. After all the right to bear arms was given to us to strike downtyranny, and Officer Buckholtz's activities couldbe considered a tyrannical act against one of us a "citizen." This brings me to the whole reason as to why I carry a firearm in the first place. I believe that most cops are out to protect themselves before the public, just as I am.

 

[SouthernBoy]

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Citizen wrote:

SouthernBoy wrote:

I would hope that if just such a situation did occur, the citizen would have returned fire with the most extreme prejudice because an action like this from a law enforcement officer requires deadly force from the citizen.

Well, the describeddeadly-force assault from anybody would authorize a defensive use of lethal force.A policeman's office has no bearing on it.

I think by now some one or more in the police dept. have picked up on the overall ideatouched on above. Namely that:

Unlawful fireby a police officer makes the CHP holder's return fire justified in the common law. A CHP holder, fired upon in the circumstances decribed by the officer, could lawfully return fire. An officer,under the circumstances, could very well get himself lawfully shot.

Yes it would, and in my opinion that would be a very sad state of affairs for all concerned.. the police and the people at large. I would sincerely hope that this scenario would never play out, but I still find what the officer said on the recording as most disturbing.