Voice Recorder Pays Off!!

[Citizen]

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SouthernBoy wrote:

SNIP I would sincerely hope that this scenario would never play out, but I still find what the officer said on the recording as most disturbing.

Did you read the complaint that was sent? Its on another thread.

 

[SouthernBoy]

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Citizen wrote:

SouthernBoy wrote:

SNIP I would sincerely hope that this scenario would never play out, but I still find what the officer said on the recording as most disturbing.

Did you read the complaint that was sent? Its on another thread.

Yes I did, and I listened to the recording.

You know, I'm a strong believer in the local police (also state units) and the citizens for whom the police are charged to serve. I have long felt that there is an inferred symbiotic relationship between both which is absolutely necessary for them to coexist and for the police to do its job. When those ties begin to break down, then so does the respect and support needed from the people. We know this lesson from the follies of others. We hope this doesn't infest the Fairfax police departments.

 

[Virginiaplanter]

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After all the right to bear arms was given to us to strike down tyranny, and Officer Buckholtz's activities could be considered a tyrannical act against one of us a "citizen."

"That all power is vested in, and consequently derived from, the people, that magistrates are their trustees and servants, and at all times amenable to them." Va. Const. Art. I, Section 2.

"That government is, or ought to be, instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation, or community; of all the various modes and forms of government, that is best which is capable of producing the greatest degree of happiness and safety, and is most effectually secured against the danger of maladministration; and, whenever any government shall be found inadequate or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, inalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter, or abolish it, in such manner as shall be judged most conducive to the public weal." Va. Const. Art. I, Section 3.


"That the good People of Virginia took up Arms, in the present Contest with Great Britain, in Defence of their Liberty and Property, invaded by an arbitrary & tyrannical Government; that as it is not merely for Names, but our essential Rights we are contending, the same Principles which first induced us to draw the Sword will again dictate Resistance to Injustice & Oppression, in whatever Shape, or under whatever Pretence, it may be offered." George Mason, December 10, 1781.

 

[Citizen]

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Virginiaplanter wrote:

"That the good People of Virginia took up Arms, in the present Contest with Great Britain, in Defence of their Liberty and Property, invaded by an arbitrary & tyrannical Government; that as it is not merely for Names, but our essential Rights we are contending, the same Principles which first induced us to draw the Sword will again dictate Resistance to Injustice & Oppression, in whatever Shape, or under whatever Pretence, it may be offered." George Mason, December 10, 1781.

Wow!

 

[ChinChin]

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SouthernBoy wrote

I would hope that if just such a situation did occur, the citizen would have returned fire with the most extreme prejudice because an action like this from a law enforcement officer requires deadly force from the citizen.

To quote the great Cpt. Malcolm Reynolds:

If somebody is trying to kill you, you try and kill them right back!

 

[ChinChin]

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Oh Citizen, almost forgot.

The quality and clarity of the recorder you have is top-notch. Any chance you can give us the make and model of that little gem, and (if you don't mind me asking) how much it set you back?

 

[SicSemperTyrannis]

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I'd like to know this, too - I'll be buying two of them this weekend (one for each car).

What is the make/model/price of your recorder?

 

[SicSemperTyrannis]

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I'd like to know this, too - I'll be buying two of them this weekend (one for each car).

What is the make/model/price of your recorder?

 

[LEO 229]

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Placementvs.Calibur wrote:

What I'm saying should not be misinterpreted as hatred towards the police. I respect the job they do and hold them in high regard. One bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch. However, there is a general misinterpretation bythe policeregarding the gun laws in our state. Virginia is one of the states that recognizes that a law biding citizen has the right to carry a firearm in the open or concealed and is intelligent enough to use the firearm for the betterment of society, either by protecting ourselves, loved ones, or even the defenseless common man. It's time that this philosophy is taught in police training and that this grudge against us able body citizens be extinguished. After all the right to bear arms was given to us to strike downtyranny, and Officer Buckholtz's activities couldbe considered a tyrannical act against one of us a "citizen." This brings me to the whole reason as to why I carry a firearm in the first place. I believe that most cops are out to protect themselves before the public, just as I am.

I completely agree... The academy needs to teach a few more code sections on guns. They need to also make it clear that OC is not against the law.

I posted already that there are too many citizens in VA and so few OCers... They are trying to "educate" the people but how can you educate when all you do is walk around with a gun on your hip? You need a poster that is informative or some other means that clearly tell the people. Otherwise.. your educating no one!

People see you and your gun... They call the police and they run!!

Some call takers know the law and educate the caller but this now takes up valuable phone lines so this is not really a viable option.

The citizens can demand the guy be checked out. Now this iswhere it is real important thatthe police knowabout OC.

 

[smccomas]

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LEO 229 wrote:

Placementvs.Calibur wrote:

What I'm saying should not be misinterpreted as hatred towards the police. I respect the job they do and hold them in high regard. One bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch. However, there is a general misinterpretation bythe policeregarding the gun laws in our state. Virginia is one of the states that recognizes that a law biding citizen has the right to carry a firearm in the open or concealed and is intelligent enough to use the firearm for the betterment of society, either by protecting ourselves, loved ones, or even the defenseless common man. It's time that this philosophy is taught in police training and that this grudge against us able body citizens be extinguished. After all the right to bear arms was given to us to strike downtyranny, and Officer Buckholtz's activities couldbe considered a tyrannical act against one of us a "citizen." This brings me to the whole reason as to why I carry a firearm in the first place. I believe that most cops are out to protect themselves before the public, just as I am.

I completely agree... The academy needs to teach a few more code sections on guns. They need to also make it clear that OC is not against the law.

I posted already that there are too many citizens in VA and so few OCers... They are trying to "educate" the people but how can you educate when all you do is walk around with a gun on your hip? You need a poster that is informative or some other means that clearly tell the people. Otherwise.. your educating no one!

People see you and your gun... They call the police and they run!!

Some call takers know the law and educate the caller but this now takes up valuable phone lines so this is not really a viable option.

The citizens can demand the guy be checked out. Now this iswhere it is real important thatthe police knowabout OC.

+1

 

[vrwmiller]

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LEO 229 wrote:

Some call takers know the law and educate the caller but this now takes up valuable phone lines so this is not really a viable option.

The citizens can demand the guy be checked out. Now this iswhere it is real important thatthe police knowabout OC.

I believe that more focus should be spent on training call takers to ask the appropriate questions to determine if a crime is afoot and to inform the caller whether a particular scenario is lawful or not. Not doing so at the call does not allow the PD to properly prioritize a call. Consider this...

Fred has a holstered firearm and is patiently waiting in line at the bank to perform a transaction. Anti-gun Sally calls 911 to report a man with a gun and demands it be checked out because of her irrational fear that Fred is about to rob the bank...PD is dispatched.

Rocko walks into a convenience store and walks around and scopes the joint out for a moment. Rocko walks up to the cashier and demands money, he has no visible weapon and doesn't announce any such fact. An observant citizen outside calls 911 to report what he perceives to be a robbery occuring inside.

What does the call taker do? Let's say the call taker doesn't ask enough questions to determine which scenario has an actual crime afoot. PD are already enroute to see Fred since there is a gun present and hold off on Rocko because the citizen only perceived a crime was afoot inside the store.

PD confront and speak with Fred and determine that no crime is being committed, all the while Rocko has fled the scene with an undisclosed amount cash after robbing the store.

In the end, a criminal gets away...the citizens have just paid for an inefficient expenditure of resources.

In fact, if I am not mistaken, a 2nd FOIA request was sent to Manassas PD inquiring on some of the redacted information in the response to the 1st FOIA request. In the response to the 2nd FOIA, it was determined that another crime was occurring in a different part of the city at the time the entire shift was harrassing gun-toting citizens at Tony's. Unfortunately, I am unable to corroborate this as I only remember reading it in passing.

 

[LEO 229]

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vrwmiller wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

Some call takers know the law and educate the caller but this now takes up valuable phone lines so this is not really a viable option.

The citizens can demand the guy be checked out. Now this iswhere it is real important thatthe police knowabout OC.

I believe that more focus should be spent on training call takers to ask the appropriate questions to determine if a crime is afoot and to inform the caller whether a particular scenario is lawful or not. Not doing so at the call does not allow the PD to properly prioritize a call. Consider this...

Fred has a holstered firearm and is patiently waiting in line at the bank to perform a transaction. Anti-gun Sally calls 911 to report a man with a gun and demands it be checked out because of her irrational fear that Fred is about to rob the bank...PD is dispatched.

Rocko walks into a convenience store and walks around and scopes the joint out for a moment. Rocko walks up to the cashier and demands money, he has no visible weapon and doesn't announce any such fact. An observant citizen outside calls 911 to report what he perceives to be a robbery occuring inside.

What does the call taker do? Let's say the call taker doesn't ask enough questions to determine which scenario has an actual crime afoot. PD are already enroute to see Fred since there is a gun present and hold off on Rocko because the citizen only perceived a crime was afoot inside the store.

PD confront and speak with Fred and determine that no crime is being committed, all the while Rocko has fled the scene with an undisclosed amount cash after robbing the store.

In the end, a criminal gets away...the citizens have just paid for an inefficient expenditure of resources.

In fact, if I am not mistaken, a 2nd FOIA request was sent to Manassas PD inquiring on some of the redacted information in the response to the 1st FOIA request. In the response to the 2nd FOIA, it was determined that another crime was occurring in a different part of the city at the time the entire shift was harrassing gun-toting citizens at Tony's. Unfortunately, I am unable to corroborate this as I only remember reading it in passing.

I agree....

Believe me.... They need more training on EVERYTHING! They never get enough details for me when I am responding. We are always having to have them call back and ask stuff while we are on the way to the call.

The bad part is.. even if the call taker knows a cop is not needed.... they will send one upon demand by the caller.

 

[SouthernBoy]

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Virginiaplanter wrote:

After all the right to bear arms was given to us to strike down tyranny, and Officer Buckholtz's activities could be considered a tyrannical act against one of us a "citizen."

"That all power is vested in, and consequently derived from, the people, that magistrates are their trustees and servants, and at all times amenable to them." Va. Const. Art. I, Section 2.

"That government is, or ought to be, instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation, or community; of all the various modes and forms of government, that is best which is capable of producing the greatest degree of happiness and safety, and is most effectually secured against the danger of maladministration; and, whenever any government shall be found inadequate or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, inalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter, or abolish it, in such manner as shall be judged most conducive to the public weal." Va. Const. Art. I, Section 3.


"That the good People of Virginia took up Arms, in the present Contest with Great Britain, in Defence of their Liberty and Property, invaded by an arbitrary & tyrannical Government; that as it is not merely for Names, but our essential Rights we are contending, the same Principles which first induced us to draw the Sword will again dictate Resistance to Injustice & Oppression, in whatever Shape, or under whatever Pretence, it may be offered." George Mason, December 10, 1781.

I would like to correct something here which was quoted in the above post regarding, "After all the right to bear arms was given to us".

This is not at all correct. No portion of the Bill of Rights assigned, enabled, or created rights. The Bill of Rights simply recognizes rights which are our's from the Creator and warns government that as such, they are not to be infringed. This is why the Bill of Rights is unamendable and cast in stone. The rights outlined in this document are so fundamental to a free people, that to alter or remove any one of them is to destroy all of them. These rights pre-exist the formation of this nation and therefore are ours to both enjoy and protect.

 

[sjhipple]

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SouthernBoy wrote:

I would like to correct something here which was quoted in the above post regarding, "After all the right to bear arms was given to us".

This is not at all correct. No portion of the Bill of Rights assigned, enabled, or created rights. The Bill of Rights simply recognizes rights which are our's from the Creator and warns government that as such, they are not to be infringed. This is why the Bill of Rights is unamendable and cast in stone. The rights outlined in this document are so fundamental to a free people, that to alter or remove any one of them is to destroy all of them. These rights pre-exist the formation of this nation and therefore are ours to both enjoy and protect.

+1 !!!

The reason they're "unalienable" is because a majority vote (or Constiututional amendment) can never take them away. Ever.

 

[Citizen]

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ChinChin wrote:

Oh Citizen, almost forgot.

The quality and clarity of the recorder you have is top-notch. Any chance you can give us the make and model of that little gem, and (if you don't mind me asking) how much it set you back?

Oh, there are plenty that are better. That one was fairly inexpensive.It is digital, not a micro-cassette tape.

I'd suggest a mid-priced digital recorder.One thatis compatible with computer fileformats. A USB jack totransfer recordings. An easy to find and mash in a hurry record button.

There is athread around herewhere voice-recorders were discussed. Maybe the forum search tool would turn it up.

 

[AbNo]

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Alternatively, I used a couple of adapters and made a double-ended headphone cord.

I plugged it into my recorder and the Microphone jack on my computer.

Then I downloaded a program called Audacity (free! free as in Boron!).

I hit record in Audacity, then play on the recorder.

Export to .mp3/.wav/.ogg, and you're set! :celebrate

If anyone needs/wants, I can explain this in more detail after I get sleep, probably starting after I've been up for 54 hours. I'm up to.... 38 now.

 

[Tomahawk]

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Citizen wrote:

Virginiaplanter wrote:

"That the good People of Virginia took up Arms, in the present Contest with Great Britain, in Defence of their Liberty and Property, invaded by an arbitrary & tyrannical Government; that as it is not merely for Names, but our essential Rights we are contending, the same Principles which first induced us to draw the Sword will again dictate Resistance to Injustice & Oppression, in whatever Shape, or under whatever Pretence, it may be offered." George Mason, December 10, 1781.

Wow!

George Mason is one of my favorite founders, yet he is largley unknown.

 

[hawgasm]

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nakedshoplifter wrote:

Traffic Stop Ends in Shooting


...It’s unclear why the officer fired upon the motorist....

"Officer Buckholtz: ... But you know what? ... had you gotten out of the car, you would have been shot. Without a doubt."



because he got out of the car.

 

[Citizen]

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vrwmiller wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

Some call takers know the law and educate the caller but this now takes up valuable phone lines so this is not really a viable option.

The citizens can demand the guy be checked out. Now this iswhere it is real important thatthe police knowabout OC.

SNIP I believe that more focus should be spent on training call takers to ask the appropriate questions to determine if a crime is afoot and to inform the caller whether a particular scenario is lawful or not. Not doing so at the call does not allow the PD to properly prioritize a call. Consider this...


In fact, if I am not mistaken, a 2nd FOIA request was sent to Manassas PD inquiring on some of the redacted information in the response to the 1st FOIA request. In the response to the 2nd FOIA, it was determined that another crime was occurring in a different part of the city at the time the entire shift was harrassing gun-toting citizens at Tony's. Unfortunately, I am unable to corroborate this as I only remember reading it in passing. (emphasis Citizen's)

The OCDO link I had was dead, but below is the link to it on VCDL. The info is about half way down the page:

http://www.vcdl.org/Tonys/mcpd.html

 

[vrwmiller]

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Citizen wrote:

vrwmiller wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

Some call takers know the law and educate the caller but this now takes up valuable phone lines so this is not really a viable option.

The citizens can demand the guy be checked out. Now this iswhere it is real important thatthe police knowabout OC.

SNIP I believe that more focus should be spent on training call takers to ask the appropriate questions to determine if a crime is afoot and to inform the caller whether a particular scenario is lawful or not. Not doing so at the call does not allow the PD to properly prioritize a call. Consider this...


In fact, if I am not mistaken, a 2nd FOIA request was sent to Manassas PD inquiring on some of the redacted information in the response to the 1st FOIA request. In the response to the 2nd FOIA, it was determined that another crime was occurring in a different part of the city at the time the entire shift was harrassing gun-toting citizens at Tony's. Unfortunately, I am unable to corroborate this as I only remember reading it in passing. (emphasis Citizen's)

The OCDO link I had was dead, but below is the link to it on VCDL. The info is about half way down the page:

http://www.vcdl.org/Tonys/mcpd.html

Ahh, good stuff. Thank you, Citizen, for digging that up.