WCI Chairman Nik Clark and Madison Police Chief Noble Wray on Wisconsin Eye

[JerryD]

Second 911 call

Do you have it? or have you heard it? if it wasn't released with FOIA request any idea why not?

 

[J.Gleason]

Nice Job Nik.

One question, If you filed an ORR for the 911 call, how come the police did not give you the info on the 2nd call?
Seems to me they are in violation of the Open Records Law by not disclosing that info to you.

Ok, two questions. We no through experience that these departments do not learn anything unless you take their money. Why is WCI only going after attorney fees? Feel free to respond in a PM if you like. I am just curious.
Seems to me that if you don't hit them where it hurts they will just continue with the same behavior until someone does.

 

[Doug Huffman]

Re "totality of circumstances"

'I don't know what you mean by "totality of circumstances,"' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

'But "totality of circumstances" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument,"' Alice objected.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master—that's all.'

 

[johnny amish]

Nice job Nik.

 

[Vandil]

Nice job Nik!


I understand why we have to take the higher road and stick to the talking points; but it would have been great comedy to work Wray's son into the argument. After looking at the totality of circumstances perhaps Wray holds the opinion that he does because he fears his son being shot by a citizen while he is the process of committing another felony theft?

 

[RR_Broccoli]

Vicki McKenna mentioned something rather interesting at Culvers last Saturday night. She said that some of the inside chatter is that the Chief and Mayor do not see eye to eye and that the Chief is actually a good guy and wants the city to lose so that he doesn't have to go against the Mayor, who has the power to fire him.

You would have to ask her for more details.

I disagree. Here's a quote from Nobel Wray from Channel3000.com's morning article about the federal lawsuit;

"This is a situation of finding the best way for public safety, No. 2, protecting constitutional rights, and then No. 3 making sure that citizens understand what they should do when they have a question about something," said Wray.

In other words, the perception of "public safety" trumps all rights. I call it "perception" because it includes not seeing a gun, and not letting someone going about their business in a non-threatening way while armed because someone else can see a gun.

Yes, being actually unsafe (example, "fire" in crowded theater trumps free speech rights) does negate positive rights. Somewhere, someone has a bad case of phobia over guns, and the Wray is either one of them or playing enough suck-up that he's ignoring his own gut feelings of what is right. Either of those two things is very very bad when it's a police chief.

 

[BJA]

Very good job Nik! The chief says that open carry will be dealt with on a "case by case basis"..... Wow I kind of wish I lived close to Madison, because my rights and everyone elses aren't dependent on a "case by case basis", that statement in itself seems like the greatest threat to our individual right to carry at the moment.

 

[polekat]

Great job Nik.

 

[McX]

I feel for Nik, having to go and sit and converse with the serpents.

added on edit; viewed the video, Wray is a lying sack of (fill in the blank).

 

[bnhcomputing]

Nice Job Nik.

One question, If you filed an ORR for the 911 call, how come the police did not give you the info on the 2nd call?
Seems to me they are in violation of the Open Records Law by not disclosing that info to you.

Ok, two questions. We no through experience that these departments do not learn anything unless you take their money. Why is WCI only going after attorney fees? Feel free to respond in a PM if you like. I am just curious.
Seems to me that if you don't hit them where it hurts they will just continue with the same behavior until someone does.

Valid question: From Pages 12 and 13 of the complaint:

1. For an order preliminarily and permanently enjoining Defendants, their officers, agents, servants, employees, and all persona acting in active concert or participation with them who receive actual notice of the injunction, from enforcing the laws, customs, practices, and policies alleged herein.
2. For declaratory relief consistent with this injunction.
3. For Attorneys fees and costs of suit pursuant to 42 U.S.C. §1988.
4. For damages in such amount to be determined at trial.
5. For trial by jury of all issues so triable.
6. For any other further relief as the Court deems just and proper.

It should be easy to show that raking these guys over the coals so-to-speak has cost them plenty now, and will effect the incomes in the future. If an actuary testifies at trial, he/she would show the mathematics showing just how GREAT the damages are.

So in short, they are seeking monetary damages for EACH of the individuals involved.

Just my personal opinion...

 

[ayce2]

Nice Job Nik!

I think all of us think you did a great job in the interview. Do not in the least second guess yourself about things you could of , would of, should of said. You where soft spoken and carried a big stick! You said nothing that could come back on you (us) congratulations.

 

[Flipper]

'I don't know what you mean by "totality of circumstances,"' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

'But "totality of circumstances" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument,"' Alice objected.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master—that's all.'

Very good Mr. Huffman.

 

[Brass Magnet]

I finally got to watch the video. Nik, I think you did an excellent job. There will always be points that are missed on both sides and that program could have went on for hours. All in all, you stuck to the high ground and made your points very well. Perhaps more importantly, the way in which you conducted yourself will surely be noticed by many fence sitters who now realize we aren't "idiots carrying guns".

 

[J.Gleason]

Valid question: From Pages 12 and 13 of the complaint:


It should be easy to show that raking these guys over the coals so-to-speak has cost them plenty now, and will effect the incomes in the future. If an actuary testifies at trial, he/she would show the mathematics showing just how GREAT the damages are.

So in short, they are seeking monetary damages for EACH of the individuals involved.

Just my personal opinion...

Thanks for the response BNH. Seems my posts don't get through for some reason. Apparently I must be on someones iggy list.

 

[rcawdor57]

Great Job Nik! And on the subject of stores posting signs when concealed carry.....

passes. I lived in Florida when concealed carry was passed. Signs went up on quite a few stores but something strange happened. Not one incident of "Blood will run in the streets as deep as rivers" ever happened as predicted by the anti-gunners. Not one. Soon businesses and people realized that all the talk about more guns on the street in the hands of law abiding citizens was going to cause problems was all hogwash. The signs came down in short order and people starting applying for concealed carry licenses. Soon the number of licenses was staggering and the elected officials realized that the People wanted to protect themselves and their families. Crime dropped across the state and when the Castle Doctrine went into effect on 1 October, 2005 criminals knew they were in the wrong state.

And in 2005 the number of concealed carry permits in Tampa alone was more than all of Kalifornia combined. 1 out of 48 people in Tampa (or maybe it was Florida) had a concealed carry license.

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

Thanks for the response BNH. Seems my posts don't get through for some reason. Apparently I must be on someones iggy list.

What makes you say that?

 

[J.Gleason]

What makes you say that?

Several posts with questions that were not responded too, unanswered emails, etc.etc. etc.

 

[DanM]

Great job, Nik!

We're following this and pulling for ya, from here in Michigan!

 

[J.Gleason]

By the way BNH, has there been any complaint filed for the MPD not disclosing the information on the 2nd 911 call in the ORR that was submitted?

 

[Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman]

Nice Job Nik.

One question, If you filed an ORR for the 911 call, how come the police did not give you the info on the 2nd call?
Seems to me they are in violation of the Open Records Law by not disclosing that info to you.

Ok, two questions. We no through experience that these departments do not learn anything unless you take their money. Why is WCI only going after attorney fees? Feel free to respond in a PM if you like. I am just curious.
Seems to me that if you don't hit them where it hurts they will just continue with the same behavior until someone does.

I don't know if there was a 2nd 911 call. It may well have been to the police non-emergency number. It appears to me the MPD just keeps throwing non-specific comments about this case hoping to mire everyone in confusion and ambiguity.

Yesterday was the first I heard of a second phone call.