Kevin Jensen
State Researcher
imported post
Tap Tap Tap...
Tap Tap Tap...
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What about the police seeing you?
- Thread starter UtahCop
- Start date
brokenarrows
Regular Member
imported post
run its the police
run its the police
youscareme
Banned
imported post
What about the police seeing me?
What about the police seeing me?
scorpioajr
Regular Member
imported post
UtahCop wrote:
thats my .02
UtahCop wrote:
For me, its a deterrent. I Know, personally, a handful of PERMIT HOLDERS that still OC every now and again. I'm sure its not b/c they or I are wanna-be-cops, its just their right. They live in The United States Of America where we are protected by the 2A. It should be no different than seeing one of us with a pair of sunglasses on.
thats my .02
brokenarrows
Regular Member
imported post
ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
So what if the police see you/or me?
The police have a job to do. If by chance they talk to us its up to us how it goes and how we feel about it. We could rant and rave about how its so unfair or whatever. Or we could understand that it is very likely someone called the police screaming...MWAG! Who really cares? (i hear the weeps already, why did it get passed dispatch?) So if JOE COP gets that call he has a duty to investigate it. Big deal. We can make it easy and have JOE COP respect us. Or we can be ass whine babies and scream foul!! IM SUING IM SUING who is your supervisor?? YOU DONT KNOW THE LAW!!! Im a sue happy bitch and just proved it!!!
CALL WHINE ONE ONE!!! I NEED A WHAMBULANCE.....
You and I may not like or agree with public perception of open carry. But it is a fact of life we have to deal with.
And Public perception at this point is not in favor of OC IMHO. It takes time. The days of the wild west are over. People are not used to seeing open carry firearms. Its a simple fact.
I dont think it helps the cause to stage events at malls or business and force ourselves or opinions on others. Sure we can call the regional manager at wal-Mart and ask what the corporate policy is. Then we can cry about how joe blow manager at this wallyworld is so out of line. (and look like crybaby kooks)
I dont think the above actions improve the public perception of the movement.
I know I will get flamed for my comments. Ive got the extiquisher ready....
Its just my opinion.
ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
I quoted this but this is really a response to the whole thread.
So what if the police see you/or me?
The police have a job to do. If by chance they talk to us its up to us how it goes and how we feel about it. We could rant and rave about how its so unfair or whatever. Or we could understand that it is very likely someone called the police screaming...MWAG! Who really cares? (i hear the weeps already, why did it get passed dispatch?) So if JOE COP gets that call he has a duty to investigate it. Big deal. We can make it easy and have JOE COP respect us. Or we can be ass whine babies and scream foul!! IM SUING IM SUING who is your supervisor?? YOU DONT KNOW THE LAW!!! Im a sue happy bitch and just proved it!!!
CALL WHINE ONE ONE!!! I NEED A WHAMBULANCE.....
You and I may not like or agree with public perception of open carry. But it is a fact of life we have to deal with.
And Public perception at this point is not in favor of OC IMHO. It takes time. The days of the wild west are over. People are not used to seeing open carry firearms. Its a simple fact.
I dont think it helps the cause to stage events at malls or business and force ourselves or opinions on others. Sure we can call the regional manager at wal-Mart and ask what the corporate policy is. Then we can cry about how joe blow manager at this wallyworld is so out of line. (and look like crybaby kooks)
I dont think the above actions improve the public perception of the movement.
I know I will get flamed for my comments. Ive got the extiquisher ready....
Its just my opinion.
scorpioajr
Regular Member
imported post
brokenarrows wrote:
brokenarrows wrote:
No you won't. I respect your opinion.
LovesHisXD45
Regular Member
imported post
brokenarrows wrote:
You do have some valid points, but it doesn't change the fact that a police officer is a "law Enforcement" entity, not an "Opinion Enforcement" entity. Would you commission somebody with a psychology major to design and operate a nuclear power plant, or would you prefer the guy with a doctorate in nuclear physics?
If you don't know the law, you should not enforce it. Know your crap related to your profession or do not do the profession at all. Ignorance puts us all at risk. There is no excuse for an officer when it comes to firearms laws. If you are "enforcing the law", you should know the law, period! If a cop is not sure about the law, thenthey should have enought humility to admit that he or she is ignorant and radio somebody who knows their stuff so that they do not violate somebody's rights and end up humiliating themselved, their department and the image of police everywhere, not to mention a possible law suit.
Also, not everybody is "sue happy" as you stated. When was the last time you heard of a case where an open carrier sued the police or any other entity for violating their rights other than the U of U case?
Kevin
P.S. This is not a flame, but a rebuttle with respect.
brokenarrows wrote:
You do have some valid points, but it doesn't change the fact that a police officer is a "law Enforcement" entity, not an "Opinion Enforcement" entity. Would you commission somebody with a psychology major to design and operate a nuclear power plant, or would you prefer the guy with a doctorate in nuclear physics?
If you don't know the law, you should not enforce it. Know your crap related to your profession or do not do the profession at all. Ignorance puts us all at risk. There is no excuse for an officer when it comes to firearms laws. If you are "enforcing the law", you should know the law, period! If a cop is not sure about the law, thenthey should have enought humility to admit that he or she is ignorant and radio somebody who knows their stuff so that they do not violate somebody's rights and end up humiliating themselved, their department and the image of police everywhere, not to mention a possible law suit.
Also, not everybody is "sue happy" as you stated. When was the last time you heard of a case where an open carrier sued the police or any other entity for violating their rights other than the U of U case?
Kevin
P.S. This is not a flame, but a rebuttle with respect.
Utah_Patriot
Regular Member
imported post
For the most part Law Enforcement has left me alone or asked questions about why I do it. Most people see my firearm and go back to bussiness as usual. I think Law Enforcement has gotten ton's better then when we first started. The word has gotten out in the Law Enforcement community. I have had very good interactions with Law Enforcement and most stores don't get offended when I come in the ignore it or ask me more questions which is good.
When I ride my motorcycle I have not once been pulled over or harassed As for the University Of Utah a lot of them did their homework and backed off.
I feel that the more people that openly carry their firearm and paint us in a good light will do more for the cause then protesting our rights.
I somtimes will find someone who needs help putting grocerys in a car or smthing small go over and help them it says alot more then protesting wally world I just shop other places like smith's Harmons and other places that don't care because they want my bussiness.
Well thatsmy 3 or 4 cents take it for what it is worth and see y'all at the state fair
For the most part Law Enforcement has left me alone or asked questions about why I do it. Most people see my firearm and go back to bussiness as usual. I think Law Enforcement has gotten ton's better then when we first started. The word has gotten out in the Law Enforcement community. I have had very good interactions with Law Enforcement and most stores don't get offended when I come in the ignore it or ask me more questions which is good.
When I ride my motorcycle I have not once been pulled over or harassed As for the University Of Utah a lot of them did their homework and backed off.
I feel that the more people that openly carry their firearm and paint us in a good light will do more for the cause then protesting our rights.
I somtimes will find someone who needs help putting grocerys in a car or smthing small go over and help them it says alot more then protesting wally world I just shop other places like smith's Harmons and other places that don't care because they want my bussiness.
Well thatsmy 3 or 4 cents take it for what it is worth and see y'all at the state fair
scorpioajr
Regular Member
imported post
gunsfreak4791 wrote:
i do my best to be extra polite and courteous when i OC. Holding doors, being sure not to interrupt, keep my hands visible, etc. You are correct when you assume that your personality portrayed in that moment, plays an important role.
It is for this reason that i feel that people feel at "ease" when they choose to interact with me while OCing. i hope I'm not diluted: i base these statements on my past experiences and observations solely. i have never had anyone validate these thoughts, except for my wife and shes biased. :lol:
Edit: Spelling..
gunsfreak4791 wrote:
+1
i do my best to be extra polite and courteous when i OC. Holding doors, being sure not to interrupt, keep my hands visible, etc. You are correct when you assume that your personality portrayed in that moment, plays an important role.
It is for this reason that i feel that people feel at "ease" when they choose to interact with me while OCing. i hope I'm not diluted: i base these statements on my past experiences and observations solely. i have never had anyone validate these thoughts, except for my wife and shes biased. :lol:
Edit: Spelling..
brokenarrows
Regular Member
imported post
LovesHisXD45 wrote:
I agree with you as well. A person should know what they are talking about. Both sides of the issue, if they can.
LovesHisXD45 wrote:
The "sue happy" comment had a selected target or two. Not the whole forum. They know who they are. I appreciate the response.
I agree with you as well. A person should know what they are talking about. Both sides of the issue, if they can.
brokenarrows
Regular Member
imported post
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum52/11475.html
I read the transcript at the above link. Seems like some lawmakers were confused themselves not so long ago.
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum52/11475.html
I read the transcript at the above link. Seems like some lawmakers were confused themselves not so long ago.
pitythefools
Regular Member
imported post
youscareme
Banned
imported post
pitythefools wrote:
pitythefools wrote:
you may be the only person here to say that. OH besides me.
Kevin Jensen
State Researcher
imported post
Welcome back, UtahCop! :monkey
Welcome back, UtahCop! :monkey
Rottie
Regular Member
imported post
Glad to have you back!It seems like quite a bit of time has passed since your original post and I am not sure if you are still employed in public safety. Having been there myself, I thank you for your service and pray for your safety if you still are. Hopefully some of your opinions regarding how to approach open carriers have changed. If not, give us more time. We seem to spend to much time now days labeling people that look or think different than ourselves and build barriers based on differences rather than bridges rooted in commonalities. It is easier to just label someone as crazy or worthless than it is to change our thinking about them. That never ends well for anyone. I want you to know that my desire to come home alive to my wife and children at the end of the day is just as strong now as it has ever been and is likely just as strong as your desire to do the same. We have that in common! Fortunately with exposure and education most departments have adopted policies specifically on how to deal with the occasional contact with open carriers. If yours has not, please encourage them to do so and to do it in a manner that is respectful.
I am glad to see you back! We need you! Even if you don't agree with the idea of open carry you can at least educate your fellow public servants about why we do what we do. You can let them know that we are not whack jobs or confused crazies. We are not cop "Wannabies" just because we carry our guns openly as well. Though we all respect what you do for us, we see the right to openly carry a gun as not a priviledge reserved for you but a right reserved for us, and you don't have to have one to the exclusion of the other. Some among us are actually active or former LEO or Military so there is no need to feel that we just put on a gun we bought at the gun store and decided to walk around town with the little knowledge we gleamed from the glock owners manual. And in some cases there are those among us who are tactical equals if not superiors to most officers. No, that is not a put down. Simply a reality.
I know how hard it is to get out to the range to practice as an LEO. When you consider the overtime shifts or the second job you have to take because you have bills to pay. Or the time you have to spend giving CPR to your marriage because your job takes everything out of you emotionally that have little left to give. The time you must dedicate to keeping yourself fit enough for the dreaded urban steeple chase of jumping fences, dodging backyard dogs, while chasing the adrenaline juiced junkie. What I am trying to say is thatit is my hope that you will not succumb to the generalizations of the uneducated who say we have no business carrying guns like we do because we are not "trainied like you". In fact many officers and gun haters do not personally know any of us let alone have examined what training we have or have not had.
Welcome back! I hope you'll stay! And please ingnore the occasional jackass that will personally attack you. They don't speak for all of us. But please also don't take offense where none is intended when things get heated. Nobody likes the thought that someone might draw down on them just for walking with a holstered gun in the open. Thanks again for your service if not for the present at least the past
Glad to have you back!It seems like quite a bit of time has passed since your original post and I am not sure if you are still employed in public safety. Having been there myself, I thank you for your service and pray for your safety if you still are. Hopefully some of your opinions regarding how to approach open carriers have changed. If not, give us more time. We seem to spend to much time now days labeling people that look or think different than ourselves and build barriers based on differences rather than bridges rooted in commonalities. It is easier to just label someone as crazy or worthless than it is to change our thinking about them. That never ends well for anyone. I want you to know that my desire to come home alive to my wife and children at the end of the day is just as strong now as it has ever been and is likely just as strong as your desire to do the same. We have that in common! Fortunately with exposure and education most departments have adopted policies specifically on how to deal with the occasional contact with open carriers. If yours has not, please encourage them to do so and to do it in a manner that is respectful.
I am glad to see you back! We need you! Even if you don't agree with the idea of open carry you can at least educate your fellow public servants about why we do what we do. You can let them know that we are not whack jobs or confused crazies. We are not cop "Wannabies" just because we carry our guns openly as well. Though we all respect what you do for us, we see the right to openly carry a gun as not a priviledge reserved for you but a right reserved for us, and you don't have to have one to the exclusion of the other. Some among us are actually active or former LEO or Military so there is no need to feel that we just put on a gun we bought at the gun store and decided to walk around town with the little knowledge we gleamed from the glock owners manual. And in some cases there are those among us who are tactical equals if not superiors to most officers. No, that is not a put down. Simply a reality.
I know how hard it is to get out to the range to practice as an LEO. When you consider the overtime shifts or the second job you have to take because you have bills to pay. Or the time you have to spend giving CPR to your marriage because your job takes everything out of you emotionally that have little left to give. The time you must dedicate to keeping yourself fit enough for the dreaded urban steeple chase of jumping fences, dodging backyard dogs, while chasing the adrenaline juiced junkie. What I am trying to say is thatit is my hope that you will not succumb to the generalizations of the uneducated who say we have no business carrying guns like we do because we are not "trainied like you". In fact many officers and gun haters do not personally know any of us let alone have examined what training we have or have not had.
Welcome back! I hope you'll stay! And please ingnore the occasional jackass that will personally attack you. They don't speak for all of us. But please also don't take offense where none is intended when things get heated. Nobody likes the thought that someone might draw down on them just for walking with a holstered gun in the open. Thanks again for your service if not for the present at least the past
caverat
Regular Member
imported post
I would also like to welcome you back And mimic what was just stated. I'm not LEO I have no wish to be. It was a passing thought back when I was young. I was a teenager that had a very heavy foot. Some of the LEO's took it upon them selves to educate me rather than punish me.
I came to have a lot of respect for law enforcement. I spent alot of time riding around with some of the guy's only to learn fast there was no way I could deal with the domestic B.S!! I had to see some thing that still makes me MAD,SICK AND STILL BRINGS A TEAR TO MY EYE'S.
I've worked with LEO on some stuff when asked. That was my gig and I had the equipment and training that there department just could not afford.
However I can't imagine any LEO ever acting as you have stated!! That just wrong on every level. I also have family that are LEO.
#1 I O/C because it is my right
#2 I O/C because I enjoy it when I get tell some one of their right to carry and see there face light up.
#3 I O/C because I hate the fact some think we should ask for the privilege to carry (ie CWP)
#4 I O/C because It is by far more comfortable.
#5 I O/C because I believe it to be a deterrent
#6 I O/C because oh hell I could go on forever :banghead:
So let me ask you a Question it may seam silly to you but I ask in honesty.
#1 Why do LEO O/C??
#2 Why do you see a civilian O/Cing as a threat?
#3 do you see criminals O/Cing often?
OK that was 3
:lol: It may interest you to know that I'm a lot nicer and more polite and will go out of my way to be helpful when I O/C than when I'm not as are most I know.
I also spend a good amount of cash and time on training and shooting. And I grew up with guns and shooting started shooting when I was 6 thats over 30 years.
How much time do you have with a gun?
I shoot over 1000 round a month with multiple firearms not counting the 100+ rounds a week with my carry gun.
How many rounds do you shoot?
Are you kinda getting my point to most of us guns are a tool a passion and a true love.
Would you draw your weapon on me for walking down the road for having my screwdriver or hammer in my pocket or hanging in the loop on my side???
If so do the right thing and turn in your badge and go work in a mail room some place.
I would also like to welcome you back And mimic what was just stated. I'm not LEO I have no wish to be. It was a passing thought back when I was young. I was a teenager that had a very heavy foot. Some of the LEO's took it upon them selves to educate me rather than punish me.
I came to have a lot of respect for law enforcement. I spent alot of time riding around with some of the guy's only to learn fast there was no way I could deal with the domestic B.S!! I had to see some thing that still makes me MAD,SICK AND STILL BRINGS A TEAR TO MY EYE'S.
I've worked with LEO on some stuff when asked. That was my gig and I had the equipment and training that there department just could not afford.
However I can't imagine any LEO ever acting as you have stated!! That just wrong on every level. I also have family that are LEO.
#1 I O/C because it is my right
#2 I O/C because I enjoy it when I get tell some one of their right to carry and see there face light up.
#3 I O/C because I hate the fact some think we should ask for the privilege to carry (ie CWP)
#4 I O/C because It is by far more comfortable.
#5 I O/C because I believe it to be a deterrent
#6 I O/C because oh hell I could go on forever :banghead:
So let me ask you a Question it may seam silly to you but I ask in honesty.
#1 Why do LEO O/C??
#2 Why do you see a civilian O/Cing as a threat?
#3 do you see criminals O/Cing often?
OK that was 3
:lol: It may interest you to know that I'm a lot nicer and more polite and will go out of my way to be helpful when I O/C than when I'm not as are most I know.
I also spend a good amount of cash and time on training and shooting. And I grew up with guns and shooting started shooting when I was 6 thats over 30 years.
How much time do you have with a gun?
I shoot over 1000 round a month with multiple firearms not counting the 100+ rounds a week with my carry gun.
How many rounds do you shoot?
Are you kinda getting my point to most of us guns are a tool a passion and a true love.
Would you draw your weapon on me for walking down the road for having my screwdriver or hammer in my pocket or hanging in the loop on my side???
If so do the right thing and turn in your badge and go work in a mail room some place.