Why are we knocking the CHP?

[Marco]

With a CHP, I can remain armed when I drive unto school property to pick up my kids so long as I stay in the car, the car stays in the paved area, and the gun stays concealed.

Without a CHP I can also remain armed. How much difference is the center console vs the hip if you need it... the console is faster as I can already have my hand on it, and no seat belt to contend with.
Without a permit I have one in my center console and can exit the vehicle if needed without having to leave school property to do so.
With your concealed firearm you'd have to exit school property as not to unconceal your firearm.

CC'ing ihmo is not a benefit when you consider the reasons why you'd need to exit the vehicle in a rush...

Little Jimmy steps out of the car and five feet away he falls and knocks out his teeth!
He starts screaming for you dad/mom...So now you have to drive to the street, discreetly unholster and than try to drive back through the drop off area, while your little one stood there screaming and watching you drive off.. While I can just exit the car and ........

 

[Lincoln7]

I have too much to do today to keep this going so...

Nothing is requiring you to respond everytime I post.

You know where the line is now.

Your line.

Now why don't you start a new thread about something important.

I'll think about it...

 

[Lincoln7]

Without a CHP I can also remain armed. How much difference is the center console vs the hip if you need it... the console is faster as I can already have my hand on it, and no seat belt to contend with.
Without a permit I have one in my center console and can exit the vehicle if needed without having to leave school property to do so.
With your concealed firearm you'd have to exit school property as not to unconceal your firearm.

CC'ing ihmo is not a benefit when you consider the reasons why you'd need to exit the vehicle in a rush...

Little Jimmy steps out of the car and five feet away he falls and knocks out his teeth!
He starts screaming for you dad/mom...So now you have to drive to the street, discreetly unholster and than try to drive back through the drop off area, while your little one stood there screaming and watching you drive off.. While I can just exit the car and ........

Those are really great points that I've not considered. I have been concerned that I cannot drive onto school property while I am OCing. The solution you present to unholster and place in console, etc is viable. Thanks.

 

[Grapeshot]

Those are really great points that I've not considered. I have been concerned that I cannot drive onto school property while I am OCing. The solution you present to unholster and place in console, etc is viable. Thanks.

Attorney General's opinion:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/05/daniel-zimmerman/vcdl-atty-gen-opinion/

http://www.oag.state.va.us/Opinions and Legal Resources/Opinions/2012opns/11-111 Newman.pdf

 

[Lincoln7]

Attorney General's opinion:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/05/daniel-zimmerman/vcdl-atty-gen-opinion/

http://www.oag.state.va.us/Opinions and Legal Resources/Opinions/2012opns/11-111 Newman.pdf

Thank you, Grape. I am aware of the law on this and of Ken's recent 2A friendly opinion. I just never thought to unholster and place in console as an option for the firearm to be readily accessible. Maybe I will install a universal holster in my console to help keep things safe. As much as I don't prefer unholstering when not in an opportune environment, it's and option, no less.

 

[half_life1052]

Those are really great points that I've not considered. I have been concerned that I cannot drive onto school property while I am OCing. The solution you present to unholster and place in console, etc is viable. Thanks.

Someone help me out here but isn't there an additional requirement to unload the weapon and place it in a locked container to enter onto school property?

EDIT:

I found a reference : http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.1

The exemptions set out in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of the school's curriculum or activities; (ii) a person possessing a knife customarily used for food preparation or service and using it for such purpose; (iii) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of any program sponsored or facilitated by either the school or any organization authorized by the school to conduct its programs either on or off the school premises; (iv) any law-enforcement officer; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.

Looks Like I was mistaken about the "locked" part.

 

[skidmark]

Without a CHP I can also remain armed. How much difference is the center console vs the hip if you need it... the console is faster as I can already have my hand on it, and no seat belt to contend with.

Just to pick nits - the Code of Virginia allows you to have the handgun in a secured container. If your hand is on the handgun that is in the console it is not secured and thus, IMHO, a violation of the law. And we are not going to discuss my not so humble opinion about whether or not various and sundry laws are violated by persons who are never cited for doing so. Presence of blood and fouls and all that, don'tchaknow?

Without a permit I have one in my center console and can exit the vehicle if needed without having to leave school property to do so.
With your concealed firearm you'd have to exit school property as not to unconceal your firearm.

CC'ing ihmo is not a benefit when you consider the reasons why you'd need to exit the vehicle in a rush...

Little Jimmy steps out of the car and five feet away he falls and knocks out his teeth!
He starts screaming for you dad/mom...So now you have to drive to the street, discreetly unholster and than try to drive back through the drop off area, while your little one stood there screaming and watching you drive off.. While I can just exit the car and ........

Again, just to pick at those nits - You can drive into the "drop off" zone of a school with a concealed firearm so long as you have a CHP. I do not see the secured container law as giving the same permission to break the school boundary with a firearm. It does allow you to conceal the firearm in your vehicle everywhere else. Please see final comment in above paragraph and apply here as well.

In closing, I see two issues that we as OCers need to bear in mind - 1) what the law she actually says (as one of the prison inmates I dealt with used to remind me), and 2) your (everybody, not only Agent19) willingness to risk being discovered being afoul of the law what she says. I have absolutely no desire to tell anyone what to do or how to do it, but I care enough about you (y'all as a general group, and some of y'all as individuals) to let you think you are covered when it looks like you really are not.

stay safe.

 

[nilla]

I started this thread, and I never once mentioned the word conceal. I open carry everywhere it is legal which is why I brought up CHP's in reference to open carrying.

Is the issue of purchasing a CHP because it supports the state in keeping the program?

What have you done to help OC'ers regain access?

We have hundreds of members with CHP's fighting to regain constitutional rights despite the fact they have permission to do the things now. Grapeshot who is the true Ambassador of all gun rights, Proshooter ho makes his living teaching CHP classes always OC's, Skidmark who spent a year out of his life fighting unjust OC prejudice, Curtis, Side Street.....on and on.

Then we get someone that says "I'm in favor of the 2nd A but I have my CHP La Da Da Dee Dee.

so it is okay for your buddy Proshooter to not only have a CHP of his own, but to enable hundreds of others to obtain theirs every year as he makes his living doing so because he OC's 'ALL THE TIME' ..... well, so does Lincoln7. he posts his numerous accounts of that in the hampton roads thread.

so what has Lincoln7 done to help OC'ers regain access?

my close freinds and I OC more often because of Lincoln7's influence and our conversations have further informed and educated me of my rights.

i have shared this with my wife and now she is more informed about her rights and OC's more often.

when we go out with our friends, the 'things on our hips' always seem to become a part of our conversation. So now our freinds are more informed, and more comfortable with me and my wife OC'ing around them and their family.

"And they'll tell their friends- and so on, and so on..."

so
i think we are all on the same team here. just that some play offense in courthouses, and others play defense. some of us are just cheerleaders or fans of the team and OC in the outside world. i don't think any of us are better than others no matter the status of our CHP's. this may be something you have presumed because of a few bad experinces with some CHP holders that want to feel special. i certainly do not feel any differently because i have a CHP. i have it because it makes it easier/more convienient to Openly Carry, but that's just me....

 

[peter nap]

so it is okay for your buddy Proshooter to not only have a CHP of his own, but to enable hundreds of others to obtain theirs every year as he makes his living doing so because he OC's

Sure is. He also gets out and fights for better OC Laws with the rest of us. He does not use his CHP like a narcotic.

i think we are all on the same team here. just that some play offense in courthouses, and others play defense. some of us are just cheerleaders or fans of the team and OC in the outside world. i don't think any of us are better than others no matter the status of our CHP's. this may be something you have presumed because of a few bad experinces with some CHP holders that want to feel special.

The issue is cheerleading here and it's more than a few bad experiences.

Let me put it this way and it's not open for argument, but it may clear it up.

Assume there is a large family who have various pains.

A very small part of the family (2%) get prescriptions for morphine, the rest just take aspirin.

Some of the morphine users respect it and only use it for it's intended purpose and then only when needed.
The rest are low life Yankee transplants and use it whenever they want to feel like big shots.:lol:

The BIGSHOTS become addicted and start selling it to pay for their prescription purchases.

The General Assembly finds out and not only outlaws Morphine for everyone, makes the Aspirin users get prescriptions.

Had the family split up in the early stages, they would have been better off.

 

[Lincoln7]

Sure is. He also gets out and fights for better OC Laws with the rest of us. He does not use his CHP like a narcotic.

I'm starting to think you've lost sight of who the 'enemy' of 2A rights in Virginia is. Hint: it's not me nor probably the VERY LARGE majority of individuals on this site.

I'm not trying to justify myself to you but to maybe clear my name with the many readers of this thread: I rock my vote, write to my representatives, attend OC events, donate to fellow OCiers in legal trouble, am a member of and promote VCDL and I inform the general public when opportunity arises. Am I Open Carrier of the Year and deserve congratulations? Hell no! I do the things I do because it's what I believe in. Yes, I could do more. In the future I plan to. EVERYONE'S personal life is different and alot of these actions take time and effort, and sometimes money. I am pretty young compared to many here and still have things to learn but I am convinced I am on the right track.

 

[half_life1052]

That is a screen grab from a video I made yesterday Half Life.

I do use a strap sometimes and just keep the camera slung on my weak side. There are some events when I'll be using a shoulder rig and might have two or three other cameras with he also. I usually just leave my gun in the car or bike when I'm doing that.

I have two favorite gear bags and the larger one can be worn as a backpack. It has two holster pockets I can use for my gun and Taser. The other bag has a spot for my Taser.

I just hand carry the cameras with long lenses.

My normal setup is two cameras. One long lens and one prime or short zoom. Both of them on Black Rapid slings so carrying equipment on the weak side only doesn't get me where I need. I hadn't thought about rigging a holster to my backpack though. The darn thing already weighs 70+ lbs jeesh. I have fun though.

 

[peter nap]

My normal setup is two cameras. One long lens and one prime or short zoom. Both of them on Black Rapid slings so carrying equipment on the weak side only doesn't get me where I need. I hadn't thought about rigging a holster to my backpack though. The darn thing already weighs 70+ lbs jeesh. I have fun though.

Yep, I feel like a pack mule sometimes. Add audio equipment and it gets miserable. That's why I keep buying new cameras as they make them smaller. Lenses are lenses though.

 

[nilla]

Peter,
i'm having trouble drawing all the paralells from your analogy. the way it was prefaced tainted the way i read it, and the reference to 'yankee transplants' further distracts me.

at the moment; what i am picking up on is that you feel that either the CHPs, the CHP holders or the holders' actions are a hinderance from your 'greater 2A goal' that you are investing your time and efforts in legislative matters to achieve. i will spend some more thought on it ....

 

[Marco]

Just to pick nits - the Code of Virginia allows you to have the handgun in a secured container. If your hand is on the handgun that is in the console it is not secured and thus, IMHO, a violation of the law. And we are not going to discuss my not so humble opinion about whether or not various and sundry laws are violated by persons who are never cited for doing so. Presence of blood and fouls and all that, don'tchaknow?



Again, just to pick at those nits - You can drive into the "drop off" zone of a school with a concealed firearm so long as you have a CHP. I do not see the secured container law as giving the same permission to break the school boundary with a firearm. It does allow you to conceal the firearm in your vehicle everywhere else. Please see final comment in above paragraph and apply here as well.

In closing, I see two issues that we as OCers need to bear in mind - 1) what the law she actually says (as one of the prison inmates I dealt with used to remind me), and 2) your (everybody, not only Agent19) willingness to risk being discovered being afoul of the law what she says. I have absolutely no desire to tell anyone what to do or how to do it, but I care enough about you (y'all as a general group, and some of y'all as individuals) to let you think you are covered when it looks like you really are not.

stay safe.

Pick as many nits as you like... see the above again .... did I ever state loaded or unloaded??? If you care to review my previous post regarding this subject you'll see I have routine that keeps me legal...
As far as the second pick.. if I'm touching it in the above situtation there is a threat presenting itself.. so yeah, if caught it will be because someone needed shooting... hence the bolded text if you need it...

 

[peter nap]

Peter,
i'm having trouble drawing all the paralells from your analogy. the way it was prefaced tainted the way i read it, and the reference to 'yankee transplants' further distracts me.

at the moment; what i am picking up on is that you feel that either the CHPs, the CHP holders or the holders' actions are a hinderance from your 'greater 2A goal' that you are investing your time and efforts in legislative matters to achieve. i will spend some more thought on it ....

Actually, the Yankee joke is my weekly prod at pro shooter although there is some basis in it. I don't like transplants that want to change Va to the "Old Neighborhood". Jim gets the Bar B Q jokes in between and there is no more pro OC and CC person I know of so it's in fun.

The rest is pretty easy to understand if you think about it.
Unfortunately in Va, CHP's have their place until it can be changed...however, only to conceal your gun, not to be able to have special privileges or perks.

The legislature knows gun registration is political suicide in this state but most of the anti's and fence sitters know that the more CHP's issued, the closer they are to Gun Owner Registration. North Carolina has a system a lot like that.

A number of ChiPpers have turned CHP's into a hobby or rite of passage, that if we let it continue, will result in a permit state. I'm not going to be a party to that.

VCDL, which started as a pro CHP group in NOVA, goes in spurts. One year they push for all gun owners, the next, they might go for what Philip calls "Baby Steps" but in the wrong direction.

Anyway...something to think about before you make a statement like we are all in this together.

 

[TFred]

Someone help me out here but isn't there an additional requirement to unload the weapon and place it in a locked container to enter onto school property?

EDIT:

I found a reference : http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.1

The exemptions set out in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of the school's curriculum or activities; (ii) a person possessing a knife customarily used for food preparation or service and using it for such purpose; (iii) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of any program sponsored or facilitated by either the school or any organization authorized by the school to conduct its programs either on or off the school premises; (iv) any law-enforcement officer; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.

Looks Like I was mistaken about the "locked" part.

You need to take special note of the phrase "The exemptions set out in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section." at the beginning of the section. See the bold section of the school carry code above. It references the 10 (soon to be 11) exemptions provided to the general prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun in 18.2-308, one of which is "10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel."

I am not a lawyer, but on the plain read of this to me and many others here abouts, what that means is that exemption #10 for the CHP law is also an exemption to the school carry law. Just as that exemption frees you from the general prohibition on carrying a concealed handgun, it would also free you from the general prohibition on carrying onto school property.

Your mileage may vary, consult your own attorney for legal advice. As far as I know, nobody has tried this in court yet. Hopefully nobody will ever need to.

TFred

 

[ed]

So now you have to drive to the street, discreetly unholster and than try to drive back through the drop off area, while your little one stood there screaming and watching you drive off

Leave Jimmy laying in the street at the curb and you can get charged with reckless endangerment...

drive to the street, discreetly unholster

if you are off campus you don't have to be discreet.

 

[ed]

Since I normally OC.. if I have to pick up Brooke or drop her off... I untuck my short and cover my firearm. if she slipped and fell.. I could reach a town/t-shirt rag that i keep in my car.. and cover my firearm while I unholster it.. never seen and put it in the center console.. the firearm never seen. I have practiced this before for this exact scenario.

 

[ProShooter]

Actually, the Yankee joke is my weekly prod at pro shooter although there is some basis in it. I don't like transplants that want to change Va to the "Old Neighborhood". Jim gets the Bar B Q jokes in between and there is no more pro OC and CC person I know of so it's in fun.

Poke and prod as you wish, but I am still not eating this crap.....

 

[Blk97F150]

Poke and prod as you wish, but I am still not eating this crap.....

Even as much as I like BBQ... I wouldn't eat that crap either!! Real BBQ doesn't have 'green stuff' on it!