Why are we knocking the CHP?

[Grapeshot]

Even as much as I like BBQ... I wouldn't eat that crap either!! Real BBQ doesn't have 'green stuff' on it!

Real BBQ comes with optional slaw. What color is your slaw? :uhoh:

 

[Blk97F150]

Real BBQ comes with optional slaw. What color is your slaw? :uhoh:

Good slaw goes on the side.... where it can stand on its own.... not on the sammich, where it ruins the taste of the pork....

 

[architect]

Good slaw goes on the side.... where it can stand on its own.... not on the sammich, where it ruins the taste of the pork....

The slaw is the antidote for the bun. Put more sauce on.

 

[paramedic70002]

Random thoughts...

1. As I move about in VA society, there seem to be a LOT less OCers roaming the streets and shops, than are members on this forum, therefore, the vast majority here are not remotely close to being OC purists. As much as some despise CHPs, either the CHPs rule the day or the guns don't get out much. I rather, and I think most others do as well, see OC as a base 'option' in the gun carry toolbox, not a creed that must be followed to the exclusion of all others. CHPs are an 'accessory' and thus as long as a member is pro-OC (why would we otherwise be here?) then the occasional discussion of CHPs falls within the realm of the greater OC community. Kinda like a lot of sailboats being equipped with motors. I do however respect differing opinions.

2. A lot of the discussion on this thread reminds me of how during WWII, after the US invaded Normandy and eventually vanquished the Germans, we then turned and beat the French and English into submission. Oh wait, that's not right. In other words, while some find CHPs distasteful, as do I, they exist, they are convenient, and I haven't seen any documentation of the evil master plan and conspiracy to use CHPs against the greater gun carrying world. I do however agree that the incrementalism of P4P MAY be counterproductive in the long run.

 

[peter nap]

Random thoughts...

1. As I move about in VA society, there seem to be a LOT less OCers roaming the streets and shops, than are members on this forum, therefore, the vast majority here are not remotely close to being OC purists. As much as some despise CHPs, either the CHPs rule the day or the guns don't get out much. I rather, and I think most others do as well, see OC as a base 'option' in the gun carry toolbox, not a creed that must be followed to the exclusion of all others. CHPs are an 'accessory' and thus as long as a member is pro-OC (why would we otherwise be here?) then the occasional discussion of CHPs falls within the realm of the greater OC community. Kinda like a lot of sailboats being equipped with motors. I do however respect differing opinions.

2. A lot of the discussion on this thread reminds me of how during WWII, after the US invaded Normandy and eventually vanquished the Germans, we then turned and beat the French and English into submission. Oh wait, that's not right. In other words, while some find CHPs distasteful, as do I, they exist, they are convenient, and I haven't seen any documentation of the evil master plan and conspiracy to use CHPs against the greater gun carrying world. I do however agree that the incrementalism of P4P MAY be counterproductive in the long run.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
That's why we really aren't in this together.
Time will tell who wins!

 

[Lincoln7]

I was convinced, based on the feedback I've received, that the best resolution was for me to give up on this thread, until it hit me.

Peter Nap was constantly stating P4P (or perks for permits, ie: special treatments). I understand what P4P means but I didn't see what the issue was. I was attacking this from the side of how CHPs are useful to OCiers. I now realize that Peter (and many of you) feel that there should not be a permit necessary to do the things that a CHP grants aside from the obvious: to carry a concealed handgun. Maybe(and maybe not) you're okay with it allowing you to CC but that obviously isn't the point on this site and nor probably of this discussion. I thought mentioning/discussions of CHPs was an issue to many here because it is for concealed carrying.

I hope that I am correct on this and that it was my misunderstanding that caused alot of...disruption in this thread. While I probably won't be handing over my CHP anytime soon (heck, it still has some paid time left on it ), I hope to contribute in making all the perks for this permit the natural born rights that they are supposed to be.

I hope that (if it is accurate) this post clears up some confusion among others here on what many see as the issue(s) with CHPs.

 

[peter nap]

I was convinced, based on the feedback I've received, that the best resolution was for me to give up on this thread, until it hit me.

Peter Nap was constantly stating P4P (or perks for permits, ie: special treatments). I understand what P4P means but I didn't see what the issue was. I was attacking this from the side of how CHPs are useful to OCiers. I now realize that Peter (and many of you) feel that there should not be a permit necessary to do the things that a CHP grants aside from the obvious: to carry a concealed handgun. Maybe(and maybe not) you're okay with it allowing you to CC but that obviously isn't the point on this site and nor probably of this discussion. I thought mentioning/discussions of CHPs was an issue to many here because it is for concealed carrying.

I hope that I am correct on this and that it was my misunderstanding that caused alot of...disruption in this thread. While I probably won't be handing over my CHP anytime soon (heck, it still has some paid time left on it ), I hope to contribute in making all the perks for this permit the natural born rights that they are supposed to be.

I hope that (if it is accurate) this post clears up some confusion among others here on what many see as the issue(s) with CHPs.

Finally!
Yes, that's pretty much it.

 

[grylnsmn]

I was convinced, based on the feedback I've received, that the best resolution was for me to give up on this thread, until it hit me.

Peter Nap was constantly stating P4P (or perks for permits, ie: special treatments). I understand what P4P means but I didn't see what the issue was. I was attacking this from the side of how CHPs are useful to OCiers. I now realize that Peter (and many of you) feel that there should not be a permit necessary to do the things that a CHP grants aside from the obvious: to carry a concealed handgun. Maybe(and maybe not) you're okay with it allowing you to CC but that obviously isn't the point on this site and nor probably of this discussion. I thought mentioning/discussions of CHPs was an issue to many here because it is for concealed carrying.

I hope that I am correct on this and that it was my misunderstanding that caused alot of...disruption in this thread. While I probably won't be handing over my CHP anytime soon (heck, it still has some paid time left on it ), I hope to contribute in making all the perks for this permit the natural born rights that they are supposed to be.

I hope that (if it is accurate) this post clears up some confusion among others here on what many see as the issue(s) with CHPs.

Exactly.

The goal is to restore our rights, not to turn those rights into privileges. That's why it's important to be so vigilant.

A lot of the P4P items currently in law are there because at the time, it seemed like that was the best we could get. It's better to turn something from a prohibition to a privilege, than to leave it as a prohibition. However, that doesn't mean that we've achieved our goal. The best result is for it to be restored as a right (whether it is currently a prohibition or a privilege). We can't afford to leave it alone until that has happened.

 

[paramedic70002]

Lincoln7, oddly Peter Nap agrees with you but I don't.

The "solution" would be for VA to adopt Constitutional Carry with only the barest limits on carry such as the secured areas of police stations, correctional facilities, military bases (granted the Feds are another animal entirely). Basically unregulated OC or CC with the same restrictions as those placed against on duty police officers.

Such a solution would probably come about in steps, whole hog legislation might be too unpalatable to pass.

 

[Grapeshot]

Lincoln7, oddly Peter Nap agrees with you but I don't.

The "solution" would be for VA to adopt Constitutional Carry with only the barest limits on carry such as the secured areas of police stations, correctional facilities, military bases (granted the Feds are another animal entirely). Basically unregulated OC or CC with the same restrictions as those placed against on duty police officers.

Such a solution would probably come about in steps, whole hog legislation might be too unpalatable to pass.

Constitutional Carry is the golden grail and I do see a light at the end of the tunnel, a very bright light.

 

[Lincoln7]

Lincoln7, oddly Peter Nap agrees with you but I don't.

The "solution" would be for VA to adopt Constitutional Carry with only the barest limits on carry such as the secured areas of police stations, correctional facilities, military bases (granted the Feds are another animal entirely). Basically unregulated OC or CC with the same restrictions as those placed against on duty police officers.

I'm not sure what you think Peter Nap and I agree upon that you don't, but I'm pretty sure the utopia of unregulated OC or CC you described is something we can all agree upon.

 

[peter nap]

I agree with you Paramedic. Whole Hog won't pass. We tried that last year and couldn't even get it out of pocket.
Baby steps in the wrong direction won't work either. We've tried it and all we get is a bone tossed our way now and then.
Building in a positive and that does not include any P4P, way will work eventually.

I'll give you an example:

I can open or CC on my farm without a CHP...until Muzzleloading and Bow season comes in. Then I can't carry at all if I have a muzzleloader or bow, which I always do at that time of year.

Has there ever been any support to change it among the loud ones....No!

The Chippers say and I've actually had it said here "I have my CHP so I can carry".
VCDL doesn't care about it.

NOVA could give a**** because they can still carry to the corner store for Latte:lol:

It will stay on the books just as National Forest Carry, probably WMA's and very likely most of the other perks.

So in the real world the baby steps remind me of what Junior Bush said about 9/11. We need to give up some freedoms to stay free:uhoh:

But the sword cuts both ways. As long as everyone is pulling opposite ends of the rope, things like Student Carry and First Responders are very unlikely to happen either.

 

[BillB]

I'll give you an example:

I can open or CC on my farm without a CHP...until Muzzleloading and Bow season comes in. Then I can't carry at all if I have a muzzleloader or bow, which I always do at that time of year.

Why let some dumb hunting law like this bother you, especially on your own property? You don't worry about the GFSZ law and write it off as the stupid law that it is.

 

[Grapeshot]

Why let some dumb hunting law like this bother you, especially on your own property? You don't worry about the GFSZ law and write it off as the stupid law that it is.

GFSZ law is hardly ever (never?) prosecuted as a primary offense. Can't say the same for hunting regulations.

 

[MagiK_SacK]

Constitutional Carry is the golden grail and I do see a light at the end of the tunnel, a very bright light.

I keep seeing these promising statements like the one above. I am really excited to see what is in store for this next year legislation!

 

[Grapeshot]

I keep seeing these promising statements like the one above. I am really excited to see what is in store for this next year legislation!

So much depends on the statewide elections and the alignment of both houses + the committees and sub-committees. While lobby and preparation is a year round effort, I really want to see a massive turnout at Lobby Day 2013 - January 16 at the GAB.

I can smell Constitutional Carry - if only the moon and the stars will come into alignment.

 

[peter nap]

Why let some dumb hunting law like this bother you, especially on your own property? You don't worry about the GFSZ law and write it off as the stupid law that it is.

I suppose because the GFSZ has already been through the mill once and the doctored version isn't ant more a primary offense than the first one.

Second, I try to obey the laws, especially the real one's that I could be prosecuted for violating. Ghost stories, unenforceable laws and tales of the bogyman are mostly for Yankees and children.

I'll try to remember your feelings though!

 

[Tanner]

read this from start to finish in 2 hours. Cheap entertainment at its best! I think there is only one gun restriction I agree with.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
I belive this to be a gun law preventing the government from infringing on our natural human right to carry guns.((or any means of defence for that matter) This law has been broken.

 

[BillB]

Ghost stories, unenforceable laws and tales of the bogyman are mostly for Yankees and children.

Possum cop phobias too?

 

[peter nap]

Possum cop phobias too?

Probably so Bill...probably so!