Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations After Trayvon Martin Shooting

[Gun Totin' Liberal]

He was not stalking a kid. He was following a suspicious person in his neighborhood. The "kid" was much larger than he was.

No cop told him not to follow. A dispatcher without any level of authority more than my mother said it was not necessary to follow.

It appears at that point, he broke off his following and asked the dispatcher to have the deputy meet him somewhere else.

He made some poor tactical choices at the outset. None of them were illegal, just poor. I would probably not have made the same choices. If I ended up where he did, I might very well make the same choice

Even if it was a dispatcher, it wouldn't change anything. It does not appear that he broke off that that point. When he was on the phone, he was in his vehicle, at a distance. Right then and there, Zimmerman should have STOPPED pursuing him. Whether they are poor "tactical" (lmao) choices or illegal acts, Zimmerman is responsible for said actions.

 

[Gun Totin' Liberal]

Incorrect. He was told they did not need him to follow Trayvon and to wait for he police. That is not the same as don't get involved. There is no evidence that he did anything other than that. What you are saying is conjecture and there is no evidence to back it up.

So you are aware, it is not illegal to watch or follow someone you deem suspicious. Stalking is a crime with a specific definition and what zimmerman was doing does not match it in the least.

You are right, I really meant to say follow, not get involved. I am saying that Trayvon probably thought Zimmerman was stalking him.

 

[kcgunfan]

Even if it was a dispatcher, it wouldn't change anything. It does not appear that he broke off that that point. When he was on the phone, he was in his vehicle, at a distance. Right then and there, Zimmerman should have STOPPED pursuing him. Whether they are poor "tactical" (lmao) choices or illegal acts, Zimmerman is responsible for said actions.

If you don't know the difference between a LEO giving you a direct order (which is what you said happened) versus a dispatcher telling you you do not need to do something (which is what the transcript shows) than any more discussion will be fruitless. If you can't make your point without the use of half truths, then maybe your point isn't worth making.

 

[MamabearCali]

Even if it was a dispatcher, it wouldn't change anything. It does not appear that he broke off that that point. When he was on the phone, he was in his vehicle, at a distance. Right then and there, Zimmerman should have STOPPED pursuing him. Whether they are poor "tactical" (lmao) choices or illegal acts, Zimmerman is responsible for said actions.

Zimmerman made some poor tactical choices. Martin made illegal choices. That is the difference.
Zimmerman's choices led him to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and put him in a place where he could be attacked. Martin chose to be an attacker. Big difference.

 

[MamabearCali]

You are right, I really meant to say follow, not get involved. I am saying that Trayvon probably thought Zimmerman was stalking him.

Then why didn't he do what reasonable men do when they see something suspicious or feel threatened--call the police. Reasonable men do not attack someone they merely suspect to be following them. Don't tell me it was because he was a "kid.". He was 17, nearly an adult and should have been capable of reasonable behavior. He was not a 12 year old kid.

 

[Animus]

That all is of course assuming that Zimmerman is telling the truth in the first place.

 

[MamabearCali]

Unless we have evidence to the contrary or previous knowledge of their character as known liars (which so far we don't) I tend to take people at their word.

Right now all the information that we have has backed up Zimmermans side of the story.

 

[Animus]

The shooter has a prior criminal record, the victim doesn't. Had Trayvon survived to tell his side, I'd be more inclined to believe him.

 

[kcgunfan]

That all is of course assuming that Zimmerman is telling the truth in the first place.

This is a criminal trial. It's not up to Mr. Zimmerman to prove he's telling the truth. It's up to the state to prove he's lying. I suspect that's going to be quite an uphill battle.

 

[Animus]

She brought up his character, I thought it pertinent to throw it back in her face.

 

[MamabearCali]

The shooter has a prior criminal record, the victim doesn't. Had Trayvon survived to tell his side, I'd be more inclined to believe him.

Zimmermans record is pretty decent. Had a bad break-up with a girl and then a minor altercation in a bar with an undercover cop that had not identified himself as such. Trayvon had a record too, a school one. Possession of stolen items, suspension for possession of an bag with marijuana residue, graffiti. Marijuana in his blood stream.......He was not exactly a little angel.

 

[hjmoosejaw]

You are right, I really meant to say follow, not get involved. I am saying that Trayvon probably thought Zimmerman was stalking him.

I'm no lawyer,but I don't think "probably thought" would stand up in a courtroom.

 

[Animus]

There was no evidence to prove or even suggest that the jewelry in his bag was stolen much less stolen by him, and graffiti and marijuana possession are hardly violent crimes. In fact, supporters of legalization (like myself) wouldn't even see the issue there.

 

[MamabearCali]

There was no evidence to prove or even suggest that the jewelry in his bag was stolen much less stolen by him, and graffiti and marijuana possession are hardly violent crimes. In fact, supporters of legalization (like myself) wouldn't even see the issue there.

Yeah, cuz teenage boys are always carrying around a bunch of jewelry in their bags.

Until marijuana is legalized it remains a rather stupid and criminal act to have it and use it. It shows a contempt for the rules and the law. Graffiti again shows a contempt for the possessions of others. Neither are violent, but each has a consistent vein of "the rules don't apply to me" and a disrespect of others property.


You brought up records not me. Zimmerman has a few issues years old, Martin's are more recent and are pretty serious in my book.

 

[kcgunfan]

The shooter has a prior criminal record, the victim doesn't. Had Trayvon survived to tell his side, I'd be more inclined to believe him.

Really? Precisely what crimes has Mr. Zimmerman been convicted of? Take all of the time you need.

 

[Animus]

Yeah, cuz teenage boys are always carrying around a bunch of jewelry in their bags.

Until marijuana is legalized it remains a rather stupid and criminal act to have it and use it. It shows a contempt for the rules and the law. Graffiti again shows a contempt for the possessions of others. Neither are violent, but each has a consistent vein of "the rules don't apply to me" and a disrespect of others property.


You brought up records not me. Zimmerman has a few issues years old, Martin's are more recent and are pretty serious in my book.

They're so serious that he was never even arrested! That's like...a whole new level of seriousness.

Really? Precisely what crimes has Mr. Zimmerman been convicted of? Take all of the time you need.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/11808013-george-zimmermans-criminal-records-revealed

Wait...I see what you did there. Tricksy. You're right, he was never convicted, but he WAS arrested and charged. The same can't be said for Trayvon.

 

[kcgunfan]

They're so serious that he was never even arrested! That's like...a whole new level of seriousness.



http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/11808013-george-zimmermans-criminal-records-revealed

Thank you, there are several issues related to Mr. Zimmerman on that page. Which of those items was he convicted for?

 

[MamabearCali]

They're so serious that he was never even arrested! That's like...a whole new level of seriousness.



http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/11808013-george-zimmermans-criminal-records-revealed

Wait...I see what you did there. Tricksy. You're right, he was never convicted, but he WAS arrested and charged. The same can't be said for Trayvon.

Likely because he was shown mercy, and the school decided that rather than ruin this young mans life with criminal charges, they would try to teach him to do better. That is what we want schools to do, yes? They decided to try and handle it "in house" and help the young man. Sadly it may have been too little too late, because he obviously did not understand that fighting is serious business and not recreation.

 

[hjmoosejaw]

There was no evidence to prove or even suggest that the jewelry in his bag was stolen much less stolen by him, and graffiti and marijuana possession are hardly violent crimes. In fact, supporters of legalization (like myself) wouldn't even see the issue there.

I know I said "I'm out" earlier. Because it didn't seem like anything was gonna change your mind, but come on Bro. I don't recall anybody saying anything about "violent" crime. You just keep adding stuff to the mix. And maybe no evidence to prove, but definitely to suggest. The stuff was in HIS bag. It was wedding rings and women's jewelry. He wasn't married and unless he was a cross-dresser, it doesn't look good for him. All of this Yeah, but what if, and he probably, and if he called up his ninja skills, or if he just got into his crime fighting utility belt. C'mon man! Stick to just the facts. A lot of us are older and have seen a lot of injustices happen. This Martin / Zimmerman thing ain't the only thing to come down the pike. We were around when for the O.J. thing, the Patty Hearst thing, the Charlie Manson thing. Hell, some might have been around for the Lindbergh baby thing. You have been handed a lot of good knowledge here today, by a lot of wise people. I'm not saying we are all right and you are all wrong. But you're at an age right between M and Z. It would serve you well in life to keep an open mind and think about what some are saying. Don't be so one sided. That's why we are trying to stick to facts. We have nothing against Treyvon Martin. We're all saddened by his loss. We have kids his age. But at the same time, Zimmerman is a young man too. And it would be wrong for him to pay a horrible dept for something unjustly. Lecture done,have a good day!

 

[Animus]

If Zimmerman's story checks out and he's acquitted, I'll be the first to congratulate him. But I'm having a really hard time buying it. I don't buy that a 6', 160 lb kid with a little weed in his system could be dangerous to a grown man with probably 50 lbs on him unless he's armed or on heroine (I still contend that he'd have to be acting in his own self-defense to overcome the aggression-lowering effects of THC). Zimmerman's shorter and by all appearances heavier (but not obese), meaning he should have a significant strength advantage even if Trayvon was in better shape, and I'm still having trouble justifying using a weapon against an unarmed person. The only time I've ever drawn my knife was the time a truck full of good ol' boys decided "my kind" didn't belong in "their" country (still not quite sure what they meant by that, I wasn't aware Goth was a nationality), and even then it was only because I knew TN law allows the use of a weapon when significantly outnumbered. Fortunately just drawing was enough to convince them to go watch Nascar instead. I've already got a 6" scar on my forearm from a guy with a balisong back in high school, any day I don't get another is a good day to me.

I keep getting interrupted by the family while typing this, if it's remotely coherent I'll be shocked.