BigDave
Opt-Out Members
No, it is a Springfield XD SubCompact 40 Cal.
It does make a statement when looking down the barrel at it (only really bad guys get this view)
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POT and Firearms... oh boy
- Thread starter Mapnapkin
- Start date
No, it is a Springfield XD SubCompact 40 Cal.
It does make a statement when looking down the barrel at it (only really bad guys get this view)
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
Twanos you are joking right?
Smoking Pot is not a victimless nor more then alcohol or other drugs that impair ones thought process or their actions and level of alertness and how it can and does directly effect others do to the effects.
Come on blaming it on having a law against it as being the problem, only a person promoting pot usage would come up with something as silly as this.
I did look through a couple of your references all having to do with the medical treatment of cancer nothing about the effects of recreational or heaving pot smoking on those who are not ill.
The discussion thus far has been in the concept of those that are using the illegal drug NOT FOR MEDICAL REASONS but RECREATIONAL.
The concept about those who disregard local city and county ordinances do to they are being in violation of State Preemption or the RCW's
Yes I do as well as I have sought out and have been successful in having the City and now the County of Yakima come into compliance.
Prior to this I sought out legal advice from an attorney and the meeting with Chief of Police which agreed that the ordinances were unenforceable.
SO HOW ABOUT YOU POT HEADS, DO YOU SEEK LEGAL ADVICE AND APPROACH LAW ENFORCEMENT ON THE ISSUE OF ILLEGAL DRUG USE ! AND THEN GET IN FRONT OF OUR LAW MAKERS AND PLEAD YOUR CASE?
I DID NOT THINK SO....
Smoking Pot is not a victimless nor more then alcohol or other drugs that impair ones thought process or their actions and level of alertness and how it can and does directly effect others do to the effects.
Come on blaming it on having a law against it as being the problem, only a person promoting pot usage would come up with something as silly as this.
I did look through a couple of your references all having to do with the medical treatment of cancer nothing about the effects of recreational or heaving pot smoking on those who are not ill.
The discussion thus far has been in the concept of those that are using the illegal drug NOT FOR MEDICAL REASONS but RECREATIONAL.
The concept about those who disregard local city and county ordinances do to they are being in violation of State Preemption or the RCW's
Yes I do as well as I have sought out and have been successful in having the City and now the County of Yakima come into compliance.
Prior to this I sought out legal advice from an attorney and the meeting with Chief of Police which agreed that the ordinances were unenforceable.
SO HOW ABOUT YOU POT HEADS, DO YOU SEEK LEGAL ADVICE AND APPROACH LAW ENFORCEMENT ON THE ISSUE OF ILLEGAL DRUG USE ! AND THEN GET IN FRONT OF OUR LAW MAKERS AND PLEAD YOUR CASE?
I DID NOT THINK SO....
Tawnos
Regular Member
You seem very angry, why? Perhaps you don't realize it, but I think you're right... Cannabis use is just as victimless as a beer, a cup of coffee, a cigarette, or any other drug that impairs or enhances your mental state. You don't want to use or do them, fine. Myself? I find it ironic I can drink myself to death, but it would be a felony for me to get intoxicated using marijuana. More striking, though, is the fact that the harms of marijuana are less related to the actual use of the drug, but those impositions made by laws where the punishment far exceeds even the worst harm of the supposed crime.
If you didn't read through all my links, let me direct you to the very last one I quoted (the rest provide the reason why this is the case): "smoking marijuana, even regularly and heavily, does not lead to lung cancer." Basically, the most cited "omg health care costs" reason - cancer - is a nonissue because of the selective suppression of cancerous cells due to D9-THC. One of the many reasons I would like to see cannabis decriminalized and ultimately legalized is that the current stigma it holds has suppressed meaningful research for decades. Coming from a family with a history of cancer, I think that, more than anything else, it's this fact that bothers me about the mindset of those who are so anti-cannabis. However, that's just one reason of many, and it seems to me those who support the right to keep and bear arms should be among those who are most supportive of the right to be self-deterministic in what they put into their bodies. Yes, there are and would be legal considerations and responsibilities for those who indulged, but that is no different than the responsibility of a person in *any* other currently legal situation.
Tawnos,
My experience in medicine has taught me that for every report or study there is a counter study. One week red wine is good for you another study says not so fast. One report says that a cup of coffee is good for the vascular system another cautions against its daily use. Ad nauseum..
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080123104017.htm
http://www.lungusa.org/stop-smoking/about-smoking/health-effects/marijuana-smoke.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070731085550.htm
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/166/13/1359
Some hail marijuana as a panacea for all that ails you. But like any medicine proven or otherwise there are side effects known and not so known. And like any other it can be abused and often is. There is this false notion that since it is natural it cannot be all that detrimental. Nothing could be further from the truth. I urge you not to place all your joints in one basket but look at the wide array of studies out there and make an objective analysis.
Again, placing blame on the law for criminal behavior is nonsensical.
My experience in medicine has taught me that for every report or study there is a counter study. One week red wine is good for you another study says not so fast. One report says that a cup of coffee is good for the vascular system another cautions against its daily use. Ad nauseum..
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080123104017.htm
http://www.lungusa.org/stop-smoking/about-smoking/health-effects/marijuana-smoke.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070731085550.htm
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/166/13/1359
Some hail marijuana as a panacea for all that ails you. But like any medicine proven or otherwise there are side effects known and not so known. And like any other it can be abused and often is. There is this false notion that since it is natural it cannot be all that detrimental. Nothing could be further from the truth. I urge you not to place all your joints in one basket but look at the wide array of studies out there and make an objective analysis.
Again, placing blame on the law for criminal behavior is nonsensical.
Batousaii
Regular Member
nice ...
... Anyone besides me think Poosharkers new avatar is screemin hot ?
... Anyone besides me think Poosharkers new avatar is screemin hot ?
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
It's a ridiculous law, unconstitutional.
The constitutional prohibition against alcohol-caused lots of crime.
Who are you or anyone else to decide what someones vice can or cannot be?
But why make criminals of people for this?
If they outlawed sex (many sex acts are illegal in many states) would you justify that law the same way?
Again for those who insist on not reading the posts no one is promoting breaking the law or being a pot-head you are totally missing the points being made.
Our founding fathers broke laws though....treason, vandalism, theft.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
I love all his avatars.....little bastard....so distracting...
gsx1138
Regular Member
Legalize it.
Until then, don't smoke and carry a gun please. As a freeman I'll make my choice whether I'll smoke pot or not. I choose not to because I'm already overweight so the last thing I need is to smoke something that will make me eat more. Is that flaunting the law? How revolutionary of me that I should choose personal freedom over unconstitutional government control.
As brought up already, I would not register or hand over my guns if they were deemed "illegal" because of some reactionary lawmaking and neither should you.
Until then, don't smoke and carry a gun please. As a freeman I'll make my choice whether I'll smoke pot or not. I choose not to because I'm already overweight so the last thing I need is to smoke something that will make me eat more.
Is that flaunting the law? How revolutionary of me that I should choose personal freedom over unconstitutional government control.As brought up already, I would not register or hand over my guns if they were deemed "illegal" because of some reactionary lawmaking and neither should you.
Aaron1124
Regular Member
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
No, no one is missing the point you are just proving the point that there are those here partake is this illegal activity and it does nothing but harm the movement of the legally armed.
I know of no one so adamant about a subject as this one that does not have some stake in it!
As with pot heads I have seen and been around through out the years, no matter what the subject is, smoking that crap comes number one above all else and yet you do not see the connection, open a window for crying out loud.
gogodawgs
Campaign Veteran
Your first statement has some truth to it in the current political/social climate. However, neither SVG or myself have promoted carry and intoxication together. We have attempted to seperate the issue and place it under the umbrella of liberty. You have refused to accept this premise. You have refused to look at the similarities with other drugs that are legal.
Your second statement is patently false. I have zero stake in pot, zero! I choose to look at the liberty of others and the reality of the drug pot and how it is not so different than other drugs that are legal. I choose to be honest about how the 'war on drugs', in direct relation to pot is an absolute failure.
Your last statement is so close minded and stereotypical it shows your inability to examine the subject in an objective manner. I have met many upper class businessmen and women who use the drug recreationally and it is not the only thing on their mind.
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
No where did I say or imply that you were promoting carrying of firearms while under the influence of any drug!
To make it a little more clear, I am against the issue of using illegal drugs and some legal drugs while being armed that inhibit ones ability to respond in a safe manner and make those choices with a clear mind.
Promoting an illegal activity and practicing the Right to Bear Arms is a statement of how one views the laws that they only want to pertain to them, a pick or choose of what laws to obey or not.
This issue of legalization of Pot is better served in a forum that deals with just that and not a forum as this, this is my opinion and I am sure many concur with it as well.
If these upper class (2nd floor retail clerk?:uhoh
businessmen or women were placed into a position of drug testing, how many would quit smoking or quit their job?It is not my inability to examine your point of view on the subject it is my ability to stand up for what I feel is right against the use of Pot or any other illegal drug.
Many of these arguments that profess it is unconstitutional to make pot illegal then what about heroin, cocaine, meth and so forth are they unconstitutional also? Do you support lifting those drugs as well or do you continue to pick and choose on what laws you will or will not obey.
Are they as well those out there fighting to legalize a current illegal drug in society today besides spewing crap like this in a gun forum. If you are what exactly are you doing to change that law?
Accusing me of being stereotypical on this issue, well the same can be said for those who support the use of illegal drugs and I guess that is what I am saying.
By buying the different illegal drugs you are providing funding to those who do commit heinous crimes from slavery to death be it in their dealings or consumption, oh that is right that is not your doings by supporting the illegal drug trade, so others can sit back and say, I didn't do it! It is not my fault! I didn't make them do it! No I bought it from a different guy! Sound familiar it should prisons and jails are full of them not taking responsibility for what they do.
Those who do well on some aspects does not give a pass nor approval on all aspects of what they do, while I feel we agree on other issues this is not one of them.
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Tawnos
Regular Member
Ha! I must be a pothead Muslim then, because I've argued both for legalization of cannabis and the rightfulness of Park51 to be built. Clearly, I have a stake in both... or, I just have a higher stake in liberty and resent the stake you would drive through it's heart.
You say "illegal", but the last time I checked, prohibition wasn't allowed without a constitutional amendment. At the time, the federal government knew it would be illegal for them to pass a law prohibiting the sale or consumption of alcohol, because it was not one of their clearly delineated powers. The constitutional amendment process was followed, and the entire country witnessed the rise of gangsters, moonshine runners, and all of the negative effects of prohibition. The entire country, wisely learning just how dumb prohibition was, repealed the 18th amendment and vowed never to be so dumb about prohibition again. Not too many years later, the Marihuana tax stamp act was passed...
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
And yet today it is still illegal is it not?
jt59
Regular Member
Hey! Are you saying that NASCAR is one of the negative effects of prohibition? :lol:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37907459/
You can clearly see in the citing that its impact is still providing new opportunities for the "revenue'rs"
....and don't forget to buy your lottery ticket....the money goes to funding the state budget for education of our youth...
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Tawnos
Regular Member
I see you're back to ignoring the majority of a post to shoot back a one-liner.
Laws can be illegal. You know this, yet feign ignorance.
Look at the time in history when the Marihuana tax stamp act was passed. The 21st amendment happened in 1932. In 1936, Roosevelt was reelected after a huge piece of New Deal legislation was struck down in Panama Refining Co. v. Ryan, Schechter Poultry Corp. v. United States, United States v. Butler, etc. The "court packing bill", which is often associated with (but may not be directly linked to, depending on how you read the timeline) the "switch in time that saved nine" all happened in 1937... The tax stamp act was passed in 1937. The final nail in the coffin came in 1942 in response to another law passed in the same time, when United States v. Darby Lumber Co. was decided.
So, do I still think the law is illegal? Yes. Do I think the US has a chance of getting past it until old people who have their head up their asses to keep their ears plugged are dead? No. I just hope that someday there are enough people that respect freedom of self-determination enough to again allow people to decide what they want to put in their bodies (yes, even heroin, cocaine, etc). If those who partake then violate the rights of others (harming or imminently endangering others), they can be punished accordingly. But this pre-crime BS has to stop.
Tawnos
Regular Member
I'll respond to the rest later, about to go on a hike, but I wanted to address the last line now.
I never placed blame on the law for criminal behavior. I placed blame on the law for being a cause of greater harm than the item the law addresses. In this case, it is the effects of enforcing prohibition that cause the greatest problems, not the item being prohibited.
More later, but htat's all for now
Dave_pro2a
Regular Member
I find a couple things on this thread interesting:
1) Some people with no class will accuse anyone who is anti-prohibition of being a 'dope head.' That is total B.S. I am pro-freedom. I do not drink, or do illegal drugs.
Such a personal attack (labeling someone a 'dope head') merely for their political beliefs bespeaks your character, and the lack of real facts on your side of the argument. If you could argue the facts, you would not need to resort to personal attacks.
2) Some people say "legal gun owners are law abiding citizens; you wouldn't break a firearm law, so why talk about breaking a drug law. Well, hardly a week goes by that I don't see people discussing breaking firearm laws on gun forums.
Just last week I saw two separate FS ads for a gun + silencer (both in WA). In both the sellers did a nudge, nudge, wink, wink, that you can go ahead and use the silencer in WA because A) an officer has to SEE you use it to arrest you and B) it's only a misdemeanor. Do I approve of such behavior? I could care less, not my business. I would never use a silencer in WA, but for others it is their choice to assume the risk.
A few years back it was also a very popular topic to explain that in California, if caught illegally CCWing, your first offense would be a misdemeanor. Many people openly said that they carry, and will do so until they are caught that first time. Now a days that topic has cooled down, but it was very common to see on gun forums a few years back. Again, their choice. Personally I believe CA laws are unconstitutional, and don't deserve to be followed... but I also don't invite trouble into my life, and therefore follow such laws -- but I don't judge those who believe and act otherwise.
It is still popular, on gun forums, to explain how to get around the CA mag ban by ordering 'replacement parts.' Totally illegal, but often talked about. Again, I don't judge those people because they are 'behind enemy lines.'
Et cetera.
The point here is, just because something is illegal, does not mean it can't be discussed, or should not be discussed. To say "no talk of pot and firearms because it's illegal' is just plain silly. We're adults.
3) Washington State law allows for the lawful use of Medical Marijuana. So it is possible to use 'pot' legally in this state. Personally, I believe strongly in state rights.
To revisit that first item again, because I believe it is so important: Call me a pot head and I'll call you an idiot, a moron, a Mofo, a scum bag, dumb, pig headed, et cetera.
Ok, I won't really do that, but I will point out that you can't argue your way out of a paper bag using acceptable rhetoric.
And to add some levity:
FREEDOM!
1) Some people with no class will accuse anyone who is anti-prohibition of being a 'dope head.' That is total B.S. I am pro-freedom. I do not drink, or do illegal drugs.
Such a personal attack (labeling someone a 'dope head') merely for their political beliefs bespeaks your character, and the lack of real facts on your side of the argument. If you could argue the facts, you would not need to resort to personal attacks.
2) Some people say "legal gun owners are law abiding citizens; you wouldn't break a firearm law, so why talk about breaking a drug law. Well, hardly a week goes by that I don't see people discussing breaking firearm laws on gun forums.
Just last week I saw two separate FS ads for a gun + silencer (both in WA). In both the sellers did a nudge, nudge, wink, wink, that you can go ahead and use the silencer in WA because A) an officer has to SEE you use it to arrest you and B) it's only a misdemeanor. Do I approve of such behavior? I could care less, not my business. I would never use a silencer in WA, but for others it is their choice to assume the risk.
A few years back it was also a very popular topic to explain that in California, if caught illegally CCWing, your first offense would be a misdemeanor. Many people openly said that they carry, and will do so until they are caught that first time. Now a days that topic has cooled down, but it was very common to see on gun forums a few years back. Again, their choice. Personally I believe CA laws are unconstitutional, and don't deserve to be followed... but I also don't invite trouble into my life, and therefore follow such laws -- but I don't judge those who believe and act otherwise.
It is still popular, on gun forums, to explain how to get around the CA mag ban by ordering 'replacement parts.' Totally illegal, but often talked about. Again, I don't judge those people because they are 'behind enemy lines.'
Et cetera.
The point here is, just because something is illegal, does not mean it can't be discussed, or should not be discussed. To say "no talk of pot and firearms because it's illegal' is just plain silly. We're adults.
3) Washington State law allows for the lawful use of Medical Marijuana. So it is possible to use 'pot' legally in this state. Personally, I believe strongly in state rights.
To revisit that first item again, because I believe it is so important: Call me a pot head and I'll call you an idiot, a moron, a Mofo, a scum bag, dumb, pig headed, et cetera.
Ok, I won't really do that, but I will point out that you can't argue your way out of a paper bag using acceptable rhetoric.
And to add some levity:
FREEDOM!
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Tawnos
Regular Member
Okay, finished the hike, let me actually respond to the other half
From:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0123104017.htm
This is a poor study, you can read the full thing here. Even within the limitations section, you can see the very things I would ask being missed: the study had only 10 participants, isolated from a population that was not isolated in terms of tobacco use. With that few participants in a 10 person case study, the results are, at best, inconclusive, at worst, can be massively misleading.
From:
http://www.lungusa.org/stop-smoking/about-smoking/health-effects/marijuana-smoke.html
Really? This isn't even a study. It's like citing MADD regarding drinking alcohol, or the Brady campaign about carrying firearms...
From:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070731085550.htm
A better study. It at least wasn't statistically insignificant in its numbers.
From:
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/166/13/1359
Now, I'm not saying it's without risks, but to suggest it's particularly dangerous to the public health or has a specific reason it should be banned over alcohol or tobacco is... insincere.
From:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0123104017.htm
This is a poor study, you can read the full thing here. Even within the limitations section, you can see the very things I would ask being missed: the study had only 10 participants, isolated from a population that was not isolated in terms of tobacco use. With that few participants in a 10 person case study, the results are, at best, inconclusive, at worst, can be massively misleading.
From:
http://www.lungusa.org/stop-smoking/about-smoking/health-effects/marijuana-smoke.html
Really? This isn't even a study. It's like citing MADD regarding drinking alcohol, or the Brady campaign about carrying firearms...
From:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070731085550.htm
A better study. It at least wasn't statistically insignificant in its numbers.
So yeah, causes problems with lung capacity (when smoked), but not disease. Seems about right... What chronic disease is purported to be shown by this link?
From:
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/166/13/1359
Oh, is that all? So, no adjustment for smoking tobacco, known selection bias, and limited generalizability?
Now, I'm not saying it's without risks, but to suggest it's particularly dangerous to the public health or has a specific reason it should be banned over alcohol or tobacco is... insincere.
devildoc5
Regular Member
How exactly would you ADEQUATELY punish someone who killed an entire family because they wanted to do an 8ball and try and drive?
Life in prison? Does that make up for ALL the lives lost????