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Anti RKBA instructor.

The Big Guy

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Had an interesting experience this morning. I decided to take my 14 yr old son to the Boulder Rifle and Pistol Club for their junior program. The goal being to teach youngsters safety, shooting, and how to care for your firearms. No fee. All firearms and ammo provided.

When I arrived there I pulled up in front of the trailer where the class is held and as I was getting out of my car, the instructor who later identified himself as "Paul", told me that "HE" did not allow any handguns but his. I said that I thought this was a gun club. He said it is. I told him I thought it should be all about the RKBA and freedom. He said he strongly believes in that. I said, "What you just said indicates that you don't." He told me that he didn't train me, he doesn't know what my abilities are. I told him that I didn't know him or know what his abilities are. He answered, "no you don't." The conversation went on a bit longer but the bottom line is I told my son, in front of Paul, that I would not let him be instructed by someone with his lack of regard for our freedoms, that I was afraid of what he would be taught.

People like Paul are why we have lost so much ground regarding our freedoms in this country. He has a very elitist attitude in that he believes in the right to bear arms, but only if he approves of you. If you are not one of his crowd those rights do not extend to you. He puts qualifiers on the Constitutions of the U.S. and NV. He is a prime example of the book Animal Farm. "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." Guess that makes Paul one of the pigs. (If you have never read Animal Farm, you should."

It's bad enough that we have to fight with the anti crowd, but it is just plain insane that we have to fight those who are supposed to be on our side. I will be writing to the club to see if they are standing behind him or not. At that time I will make a decision on whether to continue my long standing membership.

TBG
 

skidmark

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Hiding behind "liability" is just more security drama. Wonder what he might have said if you had whipped out one of his signed training certificates with your name on it.:uhoh:

Actually, no I do not wonder. Met his identical twin brother/cousin several years ago at a pin shoot. I was told that my training was "out of date" because I had not done yearly re-training with him.:shocker: As if I ever plan to spend money taking the same class every year, as opposed to looking for training that takes me to the next step in proficiency.

By "discussing" it at sufficient volume the other student candidates overheard and staged a mini-revolution. Get with the program or start issuing refunds on the spot. The mere thought of all those $$ floating away must have been powerful enough to get him to agree to drop back to the proposal that we all agree to "No handling of guns behind the firing line."

Please speak to the gun club administration. If they regularly allow members/guests to remain armed then they need to inform any "guest" instructors that the same is expected of them.

stay safe.
 

davidmcbeth

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I would have told him "thanks for sharing your views with me"..ignored him and went to the training session (you could correct anything he said that was wrong in the class).... he's going to do what? Call the cops? And I doubt he would call the cops. He does not have the authority to say "no guns"...
 
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Grapeshot

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I would have told him "thanks for sharing your views with me"..ignored him and went to the training session (you could correct anything he said that was wrong in the class).... he's going to do what? Call the cops? And I doubt he would call the cops. He does not have the authority to say "no guns"...
Cite please. The club is private property.
 

papa bear

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"Animal farm" is one of my favorites

But IMO, anti gun gun people are the biggest hypocrites there are
 

Ron_O

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Las Vegas
TBG are you saying that he was bothered by the mere FACT that you were carrying? Or were you going to be somehow participating in the shooting or training so he was concerned about how you'd be handling your weapon while on site? It sounds like you're implying that he was implying that he simply didn't want you armed on site, for any purpose. Is that the case?

OMG did he somehow assume that your weapon was going to take on a life of its own and jump out of that holster and into your hand while you were observing your son's training?

Elitist indeed, as well as teaching a paranoia toward firearms when carried by others who are not within your personal scope of knowledge. Not a guy I'd want teaching at my gun range...
 

The Big Guy

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TBG are you saying that he was bothered by the mere FACT that you were carrying? Or were you going to be somehow participating in the shooting or training so he was concerned about how you'd be handling your weapon while on site? It sounds like you're implying that he was implying that he simply didn't want you armed on site, for any purpose. Is that the case?

OMG did he somehow assume that your weapon was going to take on a life of its own and jump out of that holster and into your hand while you were observing your son's training?

Elitist indeed, as well as teaching a paranoia toward firearms when carried by others who are not within your personal scope of knowledge. Not a guy I'd want teaching at my gun range...
He was bothered by the fact I was armed. I was not participating in the training at all. At least one parent is required to be there with the child.

TBG
 

JamesCanby

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Jul 2, 2010
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Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
I would have told him "thanks for sharing your views with me"..ignored him and went to the training session (you could correct anything he said that was wrong in the class).... he's going to do what? Call the cops? And I doubt he would call the cops. He does not have the authority to say "no guns"...
Cite please. The club is private property.
The great and powerful McBeth does not need to provide a cite. His word is magic and his powers are above those of mortal men...
 

Maverick9

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Actually, I don't disagree with his rule that people entering his class do not bring firearms into the classroom area. Why not stash your gear at the door?

I've no doubt he's met his share of yahoos who think they know it all and think nothing of fiddling with their piece while he's doing training. Our instructor would allow nobody to handle any firearms though he didn't frisk us.

Since the trainer is responsible and people coming to the class are by default 'in need of training' he deserves to have his wishes followed. Put yourself in his place; you look up and someone in the back is playing with their gun while he's talking. Yikes!
 

Vegassteve

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Las Vegas NV, ,
Actually, I don't disagree with his rule that people entering his class do not bring firearms into the classroom area. Why not stash your gear at the door?

I've no doubt he's met his share of yahoos who think they know it all and think nothing of fiddling with their piece while he's doing training. Our instructor would allow nobody to handle any firearms though he didn't frisk us.

Since the trainer is responsible and people coming to the class are by default 'in need of training' he deserves to have his wishes followed. Put yourself in his place; you look up and someone in the back is playing with their gun while he's talking. Yikes!
That sounds like a typical answer from a anti gun group. You know the old why do you need a gun in here question. Why should the BigGuy carry on wal mart or any other place? He might play with his gun.

Your response is the most ignorant response I have read in a long time. The BigGuy was not in the class for training. His child was.
 

Bernymac

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Feb 3, 2013
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Las Vegas
Actually, I don't disagree with his rule that people entering his class do not bring firearms into the classroom area. Why not stash your gear at the door?

I've no doubt he's met his share of yahoos who think they know it all and think nothing of fiddling with their piece while he's doing training. Our instructor would allow nobody to handle any firearms though he didn't frisk us.

Since the trainer is responsible and people coming to the class are by default 'in need of training' he deserves to have his wishes followed. Put yourself in his place; you look up and someone in the back is playing with their gun while he's talking. Yikes!
Spoken like a true butter.
 

davidmcbeth

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The great and powerful McBeth does not need to provide a cite. His word is magic and his powers are above those of mortal men...
There is nothing to cite ... I did not reference anything that needs citing.

But I appreciate your post, at least one person acknowledges my infallibility. This is how the Pope must feel....
 

wrightme

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Oct 19, 2008
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Fallon, Nevada, USA
There is nothing to cite ... I did not reference anything that needs citing.

But I appreciate your post, at least one person acknowledges my infallibility. This is how the Pope must feel....
Yes, you did.

I would have told him "thanks for sharing your views with me"..ignored him and went to the training session (you could correct anything he said that was wrong in the class).... he's going to do what? Call the cops? And I doubt he would call the cops. He does not have the authority to say "no guns"...
Cite please. The club is private property.
 

The Big Guy

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Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,962
Location
Waco, TX
Actually, I don't disagree with his rule that people entering his class do not bring firearms into the classroom area. Why not stash your gear at the door?

I've no doubt he's met his share of yahoos who think they know it all and think nothing of fiddling with their piece while he's doing training. Our instructor would allow nobody to handle any firearms though he didn't frisk us.

Since the trainer is responsible and people coming to the class are by default 'in need of training' he deserves to have his wishes followed. Put yourself in his place; you look up and someone in the back is playing with their gun while he's talking. Yikes!
You should not be allowed to express your opinions on this topic as I don't know what your experience level is concerning this issue. I fully believe in the right of free speech, but I personally need to train you first on how to do it.

TBG
 

Ron_O

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Las Vegas
He was bothered by the fact I was armed. I was not participating in the training at all. At least one parent is required to be there with the child.

TBG
Sounds like he thinks guns are evil and until he's personally taught someone how to handle the evil serpent he's not going to allow you to be around him. Apparently he feels that a person with a gun who's AROUND guns will have no self-control. He see's anyone who's not in his circle of approval as his enemy, a potential threat. Very paranoid behavior, irresponsible, and setting a terrible example for his students. He should rather welcome you there, tell your son that he's lucky to have a father who's setting a terrific example, and assure your son that his father has his own best interests in mind by taking him to the course.

VERY paranoid behavior. God forbid that he should run into you in Walmart somewhere, where you're both on equal footing. Surely he'll find himself moving to the other side of the building or sizing you up to determine whether he could out-gun you should the need present itself. If I see someone OC'ing I shake their hand with a smile, not run them off.

You should not be allowed to express your opinions on this topic as I don't know what your experience level is concerning this issue. I fully believe in the right of free speech, but I personally need to train you first on how to do it.

TBG
Excellent example and parallel.
 
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cjohnson44546

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Nov 8, 2013
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Memphis, TN
many places of gun instruction do not allow loaded weapons or live ammo, or weapons at all in the instruction area. This is a safety precaution, because people are apt to pull out their guns and look at them and 'dry' fire or anything else and accidents and negligence happens.

If you were not involved in the class, and were outside of the class... I don't see the point in the restriction though... but we do only have one side of the story.
 

The Big Guy

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Waco, TX
many places of gun instruction do not allow loaded weapons or live ammo, or weapons at all in the instruction area. This is a safety precaution, because people are apt to pull out their guns and look at them and 'dry' fire or anything else and accidents and negligence happens.

If you were not involved in the class, and were outside of the class... I don't see the point in the restriction though... but we do only have one side of the story.
You either believe in the RKBA, or you don't. By your logic, no one should be allowed to carry anywhere because they are "apt to pull out their guns and look at them and 'dry' fire them or anything else."

By your choice of words you indicate that you believe the average person does not have the native intelligence to be allowed to carry a firearm, a very elitist attitude.

TBG
 
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Maverick9

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That sounds like a typical answer from a anti gun group. You know the old why do you need a gun in here question. Why should the BigGuy carry on wal mart or any other place? He might play with his gun.

Your response is the most ignorant response I have read in a long time. The BigGuy was not in the class for training. His child was.
I'm assuming that the people in the class were newbies. I stand corrected on TBG not being in the class for training. He should not have been questioned on his carry.
 

wrightme

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Fallon, Nevada, USA
You either believe in the RKBA, or you don't. By your logic, no one should be allowed to carry anywhere because they are "apt to pull out their guns and look at them and 'dry' fire them or anything else."

By your choice of words you indicate that you believe the average person does not have the native intelligence to be allowed to carry a firearm, a very elitist attitude.

TBG
I do not read any of that in his post. His comment has nothing to do with some random person being 'apt to pull out their guns and look at them and dry fire them or anything else,' it is about how persons, especially new gun owners are more likely to act during the course of instruction.


For those in the class, I can fully understand the restriction on any student having a loaded firearm unless they are in actual range time. Those not IN class, and students before/after class, let them be armed without questioning them.


That isn't about RKBA, it is about behavior during a course of instruction.
 
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