Asked to leave Cabela's

[Canard]

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I thought I would take advantage of the door buster sale Cabela's had going today and thought nothing of OC'ing based on previous trips and posts on here. On the way in I took a look at their policy which basically states that you need to check your firearm at the front desk unless you are carrying legally per state law. No need to check it (would not have anyway)

I passed a number of employees (must have been 20 of them up front) saying hi, welcome, blah blah blah. After getting past the last of them by about 20 paces I hear "excuse me sir, excuse me!". I turn around to see a woman from Cabela's and she was immediately asking if my sidearm was unloaded. As I looked up just about all 20 of the employees and some patrons are now watching on with great curiosity. I said "no it is not unloaded". She then asked if I could go to the front desk to unload it at which point i would be allowed to carry it. I said I would rather not and asked if this was her corporate policy? She said "yes, and it is because our patrons are not familiar with the laws and they don't want to scare anyone". Not wanting to cause a scene I asked for her name, which she gracefully gave me, and I said I was leaving and that I would be calling corporate to confirm her position. I did also verse her briefly on the right to carry in WI and offered her a WC pamphlet but she refused it.

At this point I left their property and called the store back to inquire about their policy. I asked for the store manager. I explained the situation to this new woman and she said she thought I was OK but wanted to confirm with another higher ranking manager in the store which happen to be the woman who stopped me in the first place. I gave her my phone # and she said she would get their story straight and call me back in a few minutes.

Amazingly the original woman who stopped me called back and said it was OK if I carried there. Her tone of voice was such that she really didn't want me too but was conceding. She then proceeded to say I was not allowed to put my hands on my weapon or remove it for any reason. At this point I acknowledged that removing my sidearm from its holster could be considered brandishing which is against the law anyhow. I thanked her for looking into matters further and went back to shop.

Not finding what I was looking for I went up front to ask for some help. The woman that ended up helping me was very friendly and helpful. She was having trouble looking something up on the computer and called her manager. Who shows up? The original woman who stopped me and asked me to leave. She was reluctant to look at me but I continued to engage her in friendly conversation and she eventually warmed up and we were able to have a good conversation. Ultimately she admitted that once she told me it was OK to OC that she fully expected to get 50 phone calls about a MWAG. At this point I said, "well, that's 50 more people that will understand the law and not call you next time". She acknowledged that but basically said it very inconvenient for them.

With the transaction complete she wished me a very friendly "have a nice day" and I was on my way.

At least 2 people, possibly dozens were further educated today on store policy and possibly OC.

Carry on!!!

 

[Doug Huffman]

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Canard wrote:

At this point I acknowledged that removing my sidearm from its holster could be considered brandishing which is against the law anyhow.

Barbara Streisand! The word does not occur in Wisconsin Statute. Arguably the concept is not considered by Wisconsin Statute.

 

[Canard]

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Doug Huffman wrote:

Canard wrote: 

At this point I acknowledged that removing my sidearm from its holster could be considered brandishing which is against the law anyhow.

Barbara Streisand!  The word does not occur in Wisconsin Statute.  Arguably the concept is not considered by Wisconsin Statute.

Not sure what you mean by "Barbara Streisand" can you clarify?

So there is no law that says I can't take my gun out of its holster and wave it around for no reason?

 

[J.Gleason]

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Nice Job!

 

[logan]

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Good job educating the employees!

 

[BB62]

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Canard wrote:[/b]

Not sure what you mean by "Barbara Streisand" can you clarify? So there is no law that says I can't take my gun out of its holster and wave it around for no reason?

[/quote]
What are Barbra Streisand's initials? Is there a term you are aware of with those initials?

 

[Doug Huffman]

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Canard wrote:

So there is no law that says I can't take my gun out of its holster and wave it around for no reason?

That is correct. There is no law that requires a holster.

 

[rcawdor57]

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Was this the store in Richfield? If so, I had a female manager pull that exact same thing on me when I was there during the NRA weekend sale a few months ago. She said it had to be unloaded but that they couldn't force me to but really wanted me to have it unloaded. I wasn't carrying but was buying two firearms and decided to ask the employees helping with my purchase. One said it was OK, another said no and finally the firearms department manager (Martha H.) told me it had to be unloaded but that she didn't really want me to open carry in the store. I wish these stores that sold firearms had employees that actually cared about their rights and the rights of their patrons. So let em see, I can BUY any gun I want but I CANNOT legally open carry that SAME gun in the SAME store I purchased it from in accordance with applicable state law?

Edited to add: If this keeps up with Cabela's I will only be visiting Gander Mountain.

 

[hardballer]

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rcawdor57 wrote:

So let em see, I can BUY any gun I want but I CANNOT legally open carry that SAME gun in the SAME store I purchased it from in accordance with applicable state law?


Edited to add:  If this keeps up with Cabela's I will only be visiting Gander Mountain. 

I haven't been in a Cabela's in a few years. They may have "stuff" but so does the internet. I really don't like their attitude.

 

[shanebelanger]

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The Cabela's in Maine is a non-issue. I know that this isn't the maine forum and what not but I just wanted to tell you about a Cabela's experience I had while OC'ing. I went in, had no issues at all, went over to the gun counter, looked at multiple handguns, went over to the fly rods looked at them and went back to the gun counter. One of the employees smiled, pointed at my pistol and said I think you need a new holster for that! I laughed and said, don't you always need a new holster? So we went and looked at the holsters, he asked me if it was unloaded so we could try the fit out and I told him that it was loaded and that I wouldn't remove it anyways, but that he had plenty of the same model in the cabinet. We walked over, got the same model and tried a few different holsters out. He ended up sending me to a competitor so that I could actually get the holster that I was looking for, but needless to say nobody had any problem with me carrying there.

 

[Canard]

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rcawdor57 wrote:

Was this the store in Richfield?  If so, I had a female manager pull that exact same thing on me when I was there during the NRA weekend sale a few months ago.  She said it had to be unloaded but that they couldn't force me to but really wanted me to have it unloaded.  I wasn't carrying but was buying two firearms and decided to ask the employees helping with my purchase.  One said it was OK, another said no and finally the firearms department manager (Martha H.) told me it had to be unloaded but that she didn't really want me to open carry in the store.   I wish these stores that sold firearms had employees that actually cared about their rights and the rights of their patrons.  So let em see, I can BUY any gun I want but I CANNOT legally open carry that SAME gun in the SAME store I purchased it from in accordance with applicable state law? 

Edited to add:  If this keeps up with Cabela's I will only be visiting Gander Mountain. 

Yes, this was the Richfield store. Seems like this woman has some sort of agenda. If it were unloaded it still would have the same affect on the customers as they would not know the difference loaded or unloaded so she has some sort of personal agenda. In some unknowingly way I may have called her bluff by telling her I would discuss with corporate and starting the follow through with a call to the store. I agree, why would they sell guns for personal protection but not expect people to carry them?

 

[protias]

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You know, Fletcher Arms isn't that far to shop.

 

[bnhcomputing]

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Canard wrote:

Yes, this was the Richfield store. Seems like this woman has some sort of agenda. If it were unloaded it still would have the same affect on the customers as they would not know the difference loaded or unloaded so she has some sort of personal agenda. In some unknowingly way I may have called her bluff by telling her I would discuss with corporate and starting the follow through with a call to the store. I agree, why would they sell guns for personal protection but not expect people to carry them?

I would do exactly that, write to the corporate office and provide the manager's name. Mention exactly what you did here, that loaded or not the patrons wouldn't be able to tell. Let them know that her attitude wasn't professional and that you will be taking your business to other places because of her prejudice attitude.

Send the letter to the local store and corporate.

Now that's what I'd do if it were me.

 

[kd6sxa]

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Ultimately she admitted that once she told me it was OK to OC that she fully expected to get 50 phone calls about a MWAG.

Ok help the new guy with MWAG. What does that mean?

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

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Man With A Gun

 

[kd6sxa]

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OK Thanks

 

[Shotgun]

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Canard wrote:

Doug Huffman wrote:

Canard wrote:

At this point I acknowledged that removing my sidearm from its holster could be considered brandishing which is against the law anyhow.

Barbara Streisand! The word does not occur in Wisconsin Statute. Arguably the concept is not considered by Wisconsin Statute.

Not sure what you mean by "Barbara Streisand" can you clarify?

So there is no law that says I can't take my gun out of its holster and wave it around for no reason?

Correct, no law says you can't do that. There are laws against disorderly conduct and reckless endangerment which may apply under certain circumstances.

Removing a sidearm from a holster is not necessarily brandishing it. What did you do with it when you returned to your vehicle? Took it out of the holster, I suspect.

Again, it depends upon the circumstances and manner in which it is done. Taking your gun from the holster in the midst of a verbal disagreement with someone may certainly be looked at differently than taking your gun from a holster to unload it and put it in a case, or to show off some fine engraving to another person. On the other hand, if a gun is carelessly pointed at another person while simply intending to unload and encase it, that too might be looked at unfavorably under the law. So circumstances and manner are the key. Touching or unholstering a gun are not automatically illegal activities, indeed they're perfectly normal and necessary activities often.

Doug is correct, holsters are not a legal requirement. There may be practical and prudent reasons for using a holster, but nothing beyond that.

 

[Canard]

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Shotgun wrote:

Canard wrote:

Doug Huffman wrote:

Canard wrote: 

At this point I acknowledged that removing my sidearm from its holster could be considered brandishing which is against the law anyhow.

Barbara Streisand!  The word does not occur in Wisconsin Statute.  Arguably the concept is not considered by Wisconsin Statute.

Not sure what you mean by "Barbara Streisand" can you clarify?

So there is no law that says I can't take my gun out of its holster and wave it around for no reason?

Correct, no law says you can't do that.  There are laws against disorderly conduct and reckless endangerment which may apply under certain circumstances. 

Removing a sidearm from a holster is not necessarily brandishing it.  What did you do with it when you returned to your vehicle?  Took it out of the holster, I suspect.

Again, it depends upon the circumstances and manner in which it is done.  Taking your gun from the holster in the midst of a verbal disagreement with someone may certainly be looked at differently than taking your gun from a holster to unload it and put it in a case, or to show off some fine engraving to another person.  On the other hand, if a gun is carelessly pointed at another person while simply intending to unload and encase it, that too might be looked at unfavorably under the law.  So circumstances and manner are the key.  Touching or unholstering a gun are not automatically illegal activities, indeed they're perfectly normal and necessary activities often.

Doug is correct, holsters are not a legal requirement.  There may be practical and prudent reasons for using a holster, but nothing beyond that.

I agree for the most part Shotgun except that the definition of brandish is as follows:http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/brandish
bran·dish   [bran-dish] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1.
to shake or wave, as a weapon; flourish: Brandishing his sword, he rode into battle.
–noun
2.
a flourish or waving, as of a weapon.

I suppose I could be just waving to a friend driving by and happen to have a gun in my hand, but I personally wouldn't test the law with this for my own selfish reasons.

I'll concede that there is no actual legal language specifically addresing the term "brandish". The closest mention being only in a memo drafted by the AG:http://www.doj.state.wi.us/news/files/FinalOpenCarryMemo.pdf
7. The same concepts should apply to handguns. The state constitutional right to bear arms extends to openly carrying a handgun for lawful purposes. As illustrated by a recent municipal court case in West Allis, a person openly carrying a holstered handgun on his own property while doing lawn work should not face a disorderly conduct charge.5 If, however, a person brandishes a handgun in public, the conduct may lose its constitutional protection. Again, “t is the combination of conduct and circumstances that is crucial in applying the [disorderly conduct] statute to a particular situation.” Maker, 48 Wis. 2d at 616.

When discussing "brandish" with the store manager it was not with the assumption that this specific word exists in law but the act of waving the gun around in a store for no reason or possibly to intimidate others might be illegal.

 

[Shotgun]

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Canard wrote:

When discussing "brandish" with the store manager it was not with the assumption that this specific word exists in law but the act of waving the gun around in a store for no reason or possibly to intimidate others might be illegal.

Waving a gun around "in a store for no reason" would be unwise and possibly illegal. Waving a gun"to intimidate others" would under many, although not all, circumstances also be illegal. But that only confirms what I said before-- namely, that it would be based on the circumstances. You simply described circumstances when it would not be wise to do those actions unless you are willing to risk possible legal repercussions.

You wrote, "She then proceeded to say I was not allowed to put my hands on my weapon or remove it for any reason."

That is a far cry from saying do not "wave it around for no reason or to intimidate others."

You apparently agreed not to touch your firearm even for all reasonable and legitimate purposes and circumstances, and not only for reasons or circumstances that clearly risk running afoul of the law.

 

[johnny amish]

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Nice job educating another member of the sheeple flock. Sounds like she could be an anti-gunner with an agenda. If she hassles everybody that oc's in that store then maybe people won't want to carry. Way to stand up for your rights. Did you get the conversation on a voice recorder? It would be great to have the exact conversation recorded so you could call corporate and have them listen to how their managers are treating their patrons. Carry on.