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CCW holder killed in the Las Vegas shooting

jchen012

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Oct 4, 2006
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Not sure if people knew, but the bystander who was at the Walmart after the two police officers were murdered was armed and engaged one of the suspects (the husband). Instead he was killed by the wife. He had a chance to get out safely but decided to draw his weapon. Not sure what I would have done in that situation. Perhaps he acted too quickly without assessing his surroundings?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/09/wilcox-vegas-shooting-hate/10261163/
 
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Seriona

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Jun 9, 2014
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Snohomish, WA
I thought this should be in the NV forums but then I realize that the politicians are going to make this a national issue. As for the OP question, I like to think that if this ever happens to me, the first thing I would do is check my area to confirm the situation and the hostiles.
 

MSG Laigaie

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Jan 10, 2011
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Philipsburg, Montana
would YOU step up?

Seriona has a good question. I, and my Sweet Baboo, have always been the ones to head to the gunfire, not away from it. Weather a vehicle accident or actual gunfire, I head into the mix.

I have said this before, Citizenship is a Verb.
 
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DocWalker

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Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
Seriona has a good question. I, and my Sweet Baboo, have always been the ones to head to the gunfire, not away from it. Weather a vehicle accident or actual gunfire, I head into the mix.

I have said this before, Citizenship is a Verb.
+1

I agree, I wasn't there so I don't know the situation the gentleman was in, that being said I would hope that I would have used my military and LE training to gain cover and concealment before confronting the bad guys. Again I wasn't there and I can't say what happened but I would rather go out defending myself and others than just being lead to slaughter; if the bad guy pointed his gun at him he only had seconds to respond to a deadly threat. I'm sure he didn't know if he was going to fire or not. He might have saved some lives or changed the bad guys plans, maybe even stalled them enough to confuse them.
 

madicarus

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May 16, 2014
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WA
From what I read the person could have left safely but chose to get into the mix. I made the decision that when I carry it is for the safety and security of myself and family. For everyone else, they should carry or choose something else to protect themselves, it isnt my responsibility, same as how my safety is not the leo's responsibility. If I was in the ccw-ers shoes, I would have gotten out but I applaud his effort to confront the danger.
 

WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
From what I read the person could have left safely but chose to get into the mix. I made the decision that when I carry it is for the safety and security of myself and family. For everyone else, they should carry or choose something else to protect themselves, it isnt my responsibility, same as how my safety is not the leo's responsibility. If I was in the ccw-ers shoes, I would have gotten out but I applaud his effort to confront the danger.
My take also. Even if I would have stayed I would have stayed in the checkout line and observed first. At least there he had cash registers, and junk stands on both sides of him. It would have limited his vulnerability. But I am sure he was not thinking of that at the time. I have told my wife over and over again do not get involved unless it involves you. And even if I go down her first priority is to get away.

Apparently they do not teach taking cover and remaining behind cover in CC classes.
 
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Seriona

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Jun 9, 2014
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Snohomish, WA
I agree, WA allows the right to defend others which means that if I see someones life in danger, I can legally kill the attacker. Personally, I am not going to go and solve the problem myself unless of course that problems comes to me.
 

davidmcbeth

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earth's crust
SA= Situational Awareness.

Tactical Advantage is another good one to use, after awhile, it becomes second nature, and you do it without thinking.
Hard to critique a guy when the circumstances are not fully known. But one should always be aware of where cover is...
 

WalkingWolf

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Hard to critique a guy when the circumstances are not fully known. But one should always be aware of where cover is...
We know from his friend with him they were in the checkout lanes, and that his friend left and is alive. We know he left the cover of the checkout lane trying a tactical maneuver that backfired. Even a police officer would or should seek cover and access the situation first, remember officer safety comes first. Our safety should also come first, it is waste that he died and IMO did not accomplish his goal to stop the man.

I would bet there were more concealed carriers there than just him. Usually when I am in Wally World I can spot several, sometimes up to half a dozen. It would appear that they decided to keep in their pants.
 

Difdi

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Mar 2, 2010
Messages
990
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
Spending some time playing paintball doesn't hurt for this kind of thing. It helps to teach situational and tactical awareness, while under simulated fire. The physical impact of the paintballs provides a sense of realism that airsoft and laser tag generally don't.

I don't know ANY paintball players who would break cover like that guy did. Always remember to look both ways before crossing the battlespace.
 

acmariner99

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Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
659
Location
Renton, Wa
I think this situation was very unfortunate. Most of the time, a mass shooter is a lone wolf and as such, acts alone. It's an easy mistake to make assuming you see only one bad guy. The bad wife was "concealed" and only engaged when the CWP holder went after her husband.
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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I think this situation was very unfortunate. Most of the time, a mass shooter is a lone wolf and as such, acts alone. It's an easy mistake to make assuming you see only one bad guy. The bad wife was "concealed" and only engaged when the CWP holder went after her husband.
But see this guy was not a mass shooter, he was a cop killer, and the private citizen did not know that. The shooter could have been just somebody off their meds, shooting in the ceiling was not a threat without knowledge of the prior killing. If it was a mass shooter he would not told people to leave and his first shot would have been in an innocent victim instead of the ceiling. The shooters had plenty of time to shoot more civilians, yet they didn't and kept telling people to leave. While they were wrong, very very wrong, it is clear their beef was with government not on the people in general.

However brave the hero was, he is a dead hero that did not need to die. IMO his death was in vain. Had he left the outcome would have been the same. One bullet hardly slowed or deterred the two wackos.

Not trying to disparage the man, just that if his death should do anything it should bring some thought to those who carry how to stay alive, and when to get involved.
 
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Dave_pro2a

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Nov 28, 2007
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, ,
You mean you can legally use deadly force. We do not shoot in order to kill; we shoot in order to stop the threat. That distinction is vital.
Yeah man, only the .gov can legally kill.

They are really, really good at it and they hate competition.
 
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