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CCW in a store that sells just beer for off site consumption. Legal?

pkbites

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I was under the impression that in New Mexico a CCW permit holder could enter a business that sold beer for off site consumption but only conceal carry, no OC.

But I saw signs posted at several gas stations across the state last week saying it was a felony to carry in any form. The signs were marked that they were placed by the state. Was I mistaken or were those old signs? None of those stations sold anything harder than beer.
 

solus

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PKBITES, the land of disenchantment has for years had a wussie DPS ccw state level leadership group who caves upon any challenge...this challenge manifested itself from the liquor board and leadership allowed the businesses to put up their no guns signs.

However, nobody wishes to be the sacrificial lamb and throw themselves on the sword to challenge it in the judicial system.

Sidebar: NM statutes states NM residents may only have one CCW may be maintained as the DPS truly believes NM residents are violating the law when they have UT or other non-resident permit.
10.8.2.29 H: no reciprocity shall be afforded to a license issued by another state to a NM resident!

Further, if during your CCW course you used a 45 for live fire that is the only caliber you are authorized to carry until you 're-qualify' with another caliber during an ancillary live fire exercise with a CCW instructor and get an additional handgun endorsement IAW 10.8.2.18 for $10.
 

solus

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Yes pkbites, official no guns allowed signage, quoting IAW NM statute, regarding liquor sales. These are posted by the liquor control board with statutory cite in contraindication of CCW statutes.

You’re kind attention is directed to my post #3, especially about the ‘wussie’ DPS CCW leadership & no citizen wants to be the sacrificial lamb for a court case to challenge the inconsistencies.

Please know if your firearm is seen, you will be asked to leave by clerks or managers or other citizens, if you fuss, the nice LEs will be called and now you are in trouble. The LEs do not care there “might be” an inconsistency and the signage is improper...it has a “valid” statute cited and the establishment sells liquor therefore your in violation!

Congrats pkbites, you now have a new title, sacrificial lamb and your Lawyer fees are starting to rack up...just to get you out of the county jail!

Welcome to the land of disenchantment and governance of 1.5M New Mexicans by idiotic part time legislators.

By the way a sidebar, were you on sovereign pueblo lands? No firearms whatsoever on NM tribal territory.
 
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MarkD51

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Sheboygan Wisconsin
I lived in NM 14 years (Alamogordo) and was a CC Permit Holder for the last two years of my residency.

AFAIK, state law that which supposedly supercede all local laws, a NM Concealed Permit Holder may carry concealed in any establishment that has package sales of Alcohol only, such as Gas Stations, Wally World, Convenience Stores-etc.

No open-concealed carry in Taverns-Bars, or venues that have on site consumption of beer-wine-spirits.
(Such as an example the Alamogordo Sgt Wille Estrada Memorial Civic Center which I worked at for 8 years, and possessed a NM Government Liquor License)

But, management reserves the right to ban such should they choose, and should have signage in place at entrances. Should you be spotted carrying, and asked to leave by management, you likely should with no arguments, otherwise you'll likely be cited for trespassing by LEOs.

It was also my understanding as far as CC rules, that with whatever Pistol(s) you qualified with, with a certified state Instructor, you may carry that caliber, or smaller, but not a larger caliber.

For example, if you qualified with .38-.380 you cannot then conceal carry .40 cal Semi-Auto, or .45 Cal Revolvers.

I qualified with both .45 Auto and .45 Revolver, it stated both Calibers on the back of my Permit, and thus could carry those Calibers, or any smaller Calibers by Concealed Carry.

This rule does not of course apply to Open Carry where permitted, such as Hunting, carry whatever you like and feel you need..
 

pkbites

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What I don’t get is there were plenty of gas stations and stores that sold beer that did not have signage. I want to reiterate that the signs I did see appeared to be official and even indicated that they were place there by the state. The signs seemed to quote the law as it WAS, not as it currently IS.
 

wabbit

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briar patch
Do you perchance have a cite for your 'understanding' ?

I know the appropriate term is "approved instructor" authority granted per NM DPS - 10.8.2.7 B & L.

I know the category of firearms, revolver or pistol [not auto], are mandated on to be placed on the citizen's CHC per 10.8.2.16 A.

Thanks CoL for reiterating, with appropriate cite [which i have searched high and low for a long time] about the liquor board’s pushing nonsense contraire to DPS’ 29.xxx & 10. xxx statutes.
 

pkbites

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Do you perchance have a cite for your 'understanding' ?

I know the appropriate term is "approved instructor" authority granted per NM DPS - 10.8.2.7 B & L.

I know the category of firearms, revolver or pistol [not auto], are mandated on to be placed on the citizen's CHC per 10.8.2.16 A.

Thanks CoL for reiterating, with appropriate cite [which i have searched high and low for a long time] about the liquor board’s pushing nonsense contraire to DPS’ 29.xxx & 10. xxx statutes.
How does that affect folks who are carrying with an out of state permit recognized by NM?
 

wabbit

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First, pkbites you stated ‘you were under the impression...’

Not sure why you are urinating on my leg pkbites, especially since MarkD51’s post based on their ‘understanding’ w/o any type of cite only leads to further confusion for members and didn’t address the issue, and i was providing cite [per forum mandates] clarification to MarkD51’s ‘understanding’.

Now pkbites, to address your post directed towards me, your kind attention is directed to SOLUS’ posts 3, 5, 7, 8 and of course CoL’s invaluable & quite informational post 11 showing, as he mentioned, the NM’s alcohol & gaming are riding rough-shod over DPS conceal carry agency and mandating no firearm signage which is in contriving DPS’ statutes!

And that pkbites, is how the forum affects all ‘readers’ who carry in the “Land of Disenchantment” AKA Nuevo México!

Especially pkbites, since NM doesn’t recognize your WI privilege carry card! [ http://handgunlaw.us/states/wisconsin.pdf ]
 
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pkbites

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Especially pkbites, since NM doesn’t recognize your WI privilege carry card! [ http://handgunlaw.us/states/wisconsin.pdf ]
I carry under HR218. But the person I was with has permits/licenses from Florida, Utah, and Wisconsin, of which Floridas is valid in New Mexico. (We shared a chuckle over one of his older Florida permits where the issuing commissioner was named Charles Bronson.)


The signs we saw did not say "by election of the land owner" on them. They said PURSUANT TO NEW MEXICO LAW SEC. 30-7-3(A), even though they were just gas stations and did not sell for consumption on the property. Did they just post the wrong signs up?
 
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wabbit

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pkbites, I am sorry you missed the entire gist of my post, CoL’s post, and especially solus’ posts...

POSTED BY ORDER OF ALCOHOL AND GAMING DIVISION
NEW MEXICO REGULATION AND LICENSING DEPARTMENT – 15.11.2.10 NMAC

The A & G division has been allowed by the State’s good old boy politicians to do whatever they want to do, even eliminate uniformity in the State’s statutes, which is further exacerbated by the wussie DPS Sr. Management not having enough political clout to push back on the good old boy cohorts.

Further, pkbites you missed that there are three signs at the bottom of CoL’s cite, the landowner is but one!

The business owner is told by A&G they must have one of these signs posted! So they post them to keep their license w/o a clue the signs contravene other State statutes! They see a citizen with a firearm and immediately call LEs, who then arrest the firearm carrying citizen, not for trespassing, but violation of A&G statutes, which is a FELONY offense.

As for NM recognizing FLs privilege, resident & non-resident. It surprises me since NM’s AG has insisted other states must have the same standards as NM’s concealed qualifications, including a live-fire qual, NM citizens must score a minimum of 72% higher than LEs

Now, pkbites, please you and your cohort ignore the signs but realize if hassled, you will not be charged for trespass but a felony for violating A&G statutes, and your vacation $$$$ will be used for legal defense.

Finally...get caught carrying on pueblo lands...even the interstates that run through their lands...
 

pkbites

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pkbites, I am sorry you missed the entire gist of my post, CoL’s post, and especially solus’ posts...
I don't see posts from those on my ignore list.

The business owner is told by A&G they must have one of these signs posted! So they post them to keep their license w/o a clue the signs contravene other State statutes!
Alright, but why do they have some businesses posted but not others, when the businesses are exactly the same? And if these 2 state agencies are at odds with each other and the law, why aren't gun rights groups in the area raising a fuss?

Now, pkbites, please you and your cohort ignore the signs but realize if hassled, you will not be charged for trespass but a felony for violating A&G statutes, and your vacation $$$$ will be used for legal defense.
I think legally under HR218 I wouldn't be subject to that (with the exception of signs that say the owner has prohibited carry, but we didn't see any of those), but I certainly don't want to be a test case for it! Neither one of us carried in places that were posted with these signs.
 

solus

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Alas pkbites, the State of NM has perhaps 2.0M citizens, majority Hispanic & Native American who have, with exemption of Abq area, a different step to the music of life!

For example, in the mid-90s when the great push for concealed rolled across the country, the ‘foreigners’ wanted/mandated they wanted to be able to be civilized and carry concealed like everyone else they read about in the gun blogs...

The part time NM Legislators passed a conceal carry statute directing DPS to put together ‘administrative’ code, which they did and it mandating almost 24 hours handgun knowledge/safety/ etc., conflict resolution training lecture discussion as well as included a live-fire qual which citizens had to pass 50 rounds at different distances, including at 3 yeards with eyes closed ~ passing was a score 90% and you qual on a caliber & handgun type, that was the only one which the citizen could carry!

Hurrah...citizens happy, until such time as it was disclosed LE’s qual on their service firearms was 60% w/o the eyes closed exercise.

Oh ya, Abq’s Mayor Baca was terrified there was going to be chaos in the city’s barrios so he stood up & with great fanfare and chest thumping signed an EO stating no CC OR OC in his city or associated county would be tolerated, in the interests of public safety of course!

At the Legislators next part time session they immediately amended the statutes stating cities lack oversight on the concealed statutes and directed DPS to pull their heads out and make CC privilege reasonably obtainable for citizens so 20 years later it is a 16 hour course, 72% live-fire qual, caliber and type mandated as well as still mandates conflict resolution training.

As neighbouring AZ is permitless oh and who can forget the Bluegrass state’s recent sojourn into the permit-less arena.

As for gun advocacy not many of the ‘foreigners’ migrated from CA have a desire to push the initiatives...’sides their busy advocating for permission to put grass on their lawns along with using scarce H2O resources watering their new lawns in the high desert plateaus of NM.
 

pkbites

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Milwaukee, Wisconsin, ,
pkbites, putting people on your ignore list is the reason why you look stupid.

Still doesn’t explain why some of the gas stations we encountered had those signs posted and others had no signs at all. Per COL’s cite shouldn’t the unposted station of had a “No carry except concealed” sign?
 
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