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Companies in clear violation of Constitutionally-protected civil rights

WalkingWolf

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OK if you want to shop at a anti gun business, and want to be protected there are other options. Depending on the state though, and Cosco's terms of service. Carry pepper spray, or a taser. To be honest a taser has a better one shot stop record than a firearm, though it only has one shot. Quality pepper spray has about the same effects as being shot, there is about a 5 to 10 second window before the full affect of the pepper kicks in. So carry both if it is legal, and allowed.

I do not normally carry pepper spray, unless I am going into a gun free zone, which is not often. If I have to go to the hospital for a doctors appointment I carry pepper spray. Can't remember the college but a active shooter was stopped by a student with pepper spray. I'll look for a citation though. Honestly if it was not for that one shot, and the limited range I would carry a taser over a handgun. I am probably buying a X26 used this week, NC highway patrol trade in for $150 without cartridges. I don't care much for the warranty on them though, none. One year on a new one, but knew ones are almost a thousand dollars. The pulse is between 300, and 400 with a year warranty, but it looks like a handgun, and would get the same reaction in a GFZ as a handgun. Though I don't think they will like seeing a bright yellow taser either. Most states pepper spray can be concealed without a permit, tasers not so much.
 
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countryclubjoe

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OK if you want to shop at a anti gun business, and want to be protected there are other options. Depending on the state though, and Cosco's terms of service. Carry pepper spray, or a taser. To be honest a taser has a better one shot stop record than a firearm, though it only has one shot. Quality pepper spray has about the same effects as being shot, there is about a 5 to 10 second window before the full affect of the pepper kicks in. So carry both if it is legal, and allowed.

I do not normally carry pepper spray, unless I am going into a gun free zone, which is not often. If I have to go to the hospital for a doctors appointment I carry pepper spray. Can't remember the college but a active shooter was stopped by a student with pepper spray. I'll look for a citation though. Honestly if it was not for that one shot, and the limited range I would carry a taser over a handgun. I am probably buying a X26 used this week, NC highway patrol trade in for $150 without cartridges. I don't care much for the warranty on them though, none. One year on a new one, but knew ones are almost a thousand dollars. The pulse is between 300, and 400 with a year warranty, but it looks like a handgun, and would get the same reaction in a GFZ as a handgun. Though I don't think they will like seeing a bright yellow taser either. Most states pepper spray can be concealed without a permit, tasers not so much.

I really can't wait to open carry my TASER. WW, really?

Simply cannot make this stuff up..

My .02
CCJ
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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. To be honest a taser has a better one shot stop record than a firearm, though it only has one shot. Quality pepper spray has about the same effects as being shot, there is about a 5 to 10 second window before the full affect of the pepper kicks in. So carry both if it is legal, and allowed.

.

I don't think one well find a study except put out by the manufacturer of Tasers on their failure rate. They are very subject to distance, weather, clothing, mental, training and intoxicated state of the person being hit.

The same can be said for spray officers who are trained to carry spray are taught to fight through the effects of it.

The idea that spray has about the same effects as being shot with a firearm is ridiculous. It is not considered to be deadly force nor is a taser.

Spray has it uses and I have used it against several dogs since I have retired saves one a lot of hassle over shooting them. I only carry it running and bicycling.

Where with most any firearm use is considered deadly force. One could be very justifiable in using deadly force against some one aiming a firearm at you. Under a lot of circumstances then one would at some one aiming a can of spray or a taser at you.

Having been trained and carried both they are not a substitute for a firearm.

Better than nothing for sure there are many things that can be used as weapons.

One just needs a good imagination to understand and use them.
 
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WalkingWolf

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I was strictly talking about stopping, not death, or bodily harm. That is why they are called less lethal. Most people, probably 99.9% drop when tasered that is not true of firearms. Look at any police shooting and see how many rounds officers typically fire to stop a threat, and how many times most perps drop when tasered once. People are known to continue to fight when shot, some don't even know they are shot, a handgun to be honest is a poor self defense weapon. A rifle is better, a shotgun is better, a Mack truck is better, in some instances a dog is better, depending on the threat. I would never count on any device to save my life, after I deploy whatever it is I am getting out of there, I don't care if the person is permanently disabled or worse. I just want to live. I will see if I can find the video, there is no doubt that pepper spray saved lives on a campus against an active shooter.

With all that aside if a person is restricted from carrying a firearm in a GFZ, but can carry non lethal the old saying of better than a sharp stick. Which IS what my response in reference to.

[video=youtube_share;sFyJZowdyb8]https://youtu.be/sFyJZowdyb8[/video]

I make this challenge, volunteer to be tased, or sprayed by local LE, post a video. How confident are you?
 

solus

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Other encounters where officers didn’t shoot their guns also showed the limitations of the weapon. LAPD officers fired Tasers just over 1,100 times last year, according to a department report published last month. The devices had the desired outcome — causing someone to submit to arrest — only 53 percent of the time. http://www.staradvertiser.com/2016/...ten-dont-work-review-of-lapd-incidents-finds/


Officer Karen Taylor fired her Taser six times trying to stop a shoplifting suspect who was resisting arrest. The suit by the former Houston Police officer accuses the high-tech developer of false advertising, saying the company promotes equipment that doesn’t always work as promised, leading to unnecessary injuries and sometimes death for officers and suspects.


But Houston officers have a history of problems with the device, according to the lawsuit. Tasers failed to function successfully 450 times for Houston Police in the past five years, including 25 cases in which it failed to penetrate a target or deliver a charge, according to Houston Police data submitted in court filings. Reports have surfaced in other cities as well, Bell said.


Tuttle...the company has lost only two out of more than 200 product liability cases in its 23-year history. http://www.pressreader.com/usa/houston-chronicle/20170417/281505046090925


look at this listing: http://www.aele.org/law/Digests/ECWarticles.html


note, it is understood there is a significant difference between the myriad of SUBJECT circumstances where the ECM is used and is ineffective in incapacitating said subject verses defective!
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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I make this challenge, volunteer to be tased, or sprayed by local LE, post a video. How confident are you?

Do I get to pick the clothing I get to wear Do I get some sort of non fire arm weapon having seen a lot of trainees get tased and sprayed

Then after seeing suspects get tased and sprayed.

How much money do want to put down that I couldn't or could not make contact and inflict blows to the person holding the taser or spray.

Even better are you willing to put your self in harms way along with some cash.

I seen enough of their use to know they are far from a sure thing especially when dealing with some one who knows how they work.
 

WalkingWolf

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Do I get to pick the clothing I get to wear Do I get some sort of non fire arm weapon having seen a lot of trainees get tased and sprayed

Then after seeing suspects get tased and sprayed.

How much money do want to put down that I couldn't or could not make contact and inflict blows to the person holding the taser or spray.

Even better are you willing to put your self in harms way along with some cash.

I seen enough of their use to know they are far from a sure thing especially when dealing with some one who knows how they work.

No you don't, you get tased wearing normal clothes, in the face if heavily clothed. I have been stunned, before tasers, in 85, I was completely incapacitated. While they may not work 100 percent neither do firearms, and firearms are totally ineffective when they are not available. Try telling the perp your gun is in the trunk of your car, and see how that works for you. There have been more than enough shootouts to prove how ineffective a firearm is on an assailant who does not want to stop.
 

WalkingWolf

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I am unaware of a .45 ACP not stopping a threat...GI 1911A that is. Placement does matter.

I believe there was a case of a perp shot 11 times with .45 ACP, and continued to fight. Seems to me a trooper was killed by a 22LR, he was carrying a 357 which has a record over 45acp for stopping threats. The perp shot several times survived. Corporal Mark Coates RIP.

It is also true that Coates while mortally wounded continued to fight, which is possible for anybody shot, and happens quite often.
 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

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No you don't, you get tased wearing normal clothes, in the face if heavily clothed. I have been stunned, before tasers, in 85, I was completely incapacitated. While they may not work 100 percent neither do firearms, and firearms are totally ineffective when they are not available. Try telling the perp your gun is in the trunk of your car, and see how that works for you. There have been more than enough shootouts to prove how ineffective a firearm is on an assailant who does not want to stop.

One can change or make any situation winnable if your the one do design it, on the street the person carrying a weapon self defense seldom has the available to do such.

They have play the hand they are dealt.

You obviously have no Taser experience do the spread of the probes getting both to hit on the head is almost impossible and is not a valid target.

No Taser trainer well tell you to aim for the head because of that and the chances of causing blindness.

Tasers are better then nothing as is spray but they have their limitations along with any weapon.

Improvised weapons can be had most any place one only needs an imagination to find and use them.
 

WalkingWolf

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Do you recommend that people go completely unarmed in a gun free zone? Yes, or No? Forget that it might in your mind it impact your revenue as a firearms instructor.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Do you recommend that people go completely unarmed in a gun free zone? Yes, or No? Forget that it might in your mind it impact your revenue as a firearms instructor.

There are several solutions to being armed in a gun frees zone depending on the type of gun free zone.

If you can not think of them, I well gladly pass that information about them and how to use them.

I do not only instruct firearms training but all aspects of personnel defense.

My basic rate starts at 50 dollars and hour and goes up from there depending on the amount and type of training you want.

Feel free to contact me and I can work up a lesson plan and rates for you. All based on your personnel circumstances and personnel protection needs.
 
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WalkingWolf

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There are several solutions to being armed in a gun frees zone depending on the type of gun free zone.

If you can not think of them, I well gladly pass that information about them and how to use them.

I do not only instruct firearms training but all aspects of personnel defense.

My basic rate starts at 50 dollars and hour and goes up from there depending on the amount and type of training you want.

Feel free to contact me and I can work up a lesson plan and rates for you. All based on your personnel circumstances and personnel protection needs.

Post those options here, in public. I think you are just afraid of losing your training bucks, like many who profit off pay for play. Let's here your options, this is gotta be good, I expect some tactikewl ninja training but let's see?
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Post those options here, in public. I think you are just afraid of losing your training bucks, like many who profit off pay for play. Let's here your options, this is gotta be good, I expect some tactikewl ninja training but let's see?

Go to your electrician, plumber, auto mechanic, doctor or your lawyer and ask them for free work.

Just like any other professional I get paid when I do work for people.

Unless I am teaching children I do that for free through 4H.

Or any parent of a child that asks me to instruct their child.
 
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WalkingWolf

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Go to your electrician, plumber, auto mechanic, doctor or your lawyer and ask them for free work.

Just like any other professional I get paid when I do work for people.

Unless I am teaching children I do that for free through 4H.

Or any parent of a child that asks me to instruct their child.

Just like I thought, it is all about the money. You were the one that attacked the use of non lethal weapons, yet you can't come up with even one solution. The problem, your pocket book, this is the problem with many so called trainers.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Just like I thought, it is all about the money. You were the one that attacked the use of non lethal weapons, yet you can't come up with even one solution. The problem, your pocket book, this is the problem with many so called trainers.

Yes professionals work for money what so hard about under standing that concept.

Why do think firearm training or other training should be done for free.

Any more then expecting any other professional should work for free.

I didn't attack the use of non lethal weapons matter of fact I endorsed them in gun free zones.

What I brought into question was your uninformed and unreal expectations and ideas how and what one could expect when one deploys certain ones..
 
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WalkingWolf

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Yes professionals work for money what so hard about under standing that concept.

Why do think firearm training or other training should be done for free.

Any more then expecting any other professional should work for free.

I didn't attack the use of non lethal weapons matter of fact I endorsed them in gun free zones.

What I brought into question was your uninformed and unreal expectations and ideas how and what one could expect when one deploys certain ones..

So where was the money when you opened your pie hole in this thread. Did someone pay you to bash pepper spray, and tasers? Seems like a professional would act like a professional.
 
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WalkingWolf

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NC Highway Patrol saw a 33% decline in officer injuries after the introduction of pepper spray in 1993, and NHP was not alone. Two other departments saw the drop in the study.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/195739.pdf

"OC proved to be extremely effective for the BCPD with an 38 overall effectiveness of 90 % on human confrontational encounters."

http://dc.etsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1936&context=etd

And then there is this study on the stopping power of handguns. Pepper spray is clearly more effective than firearms to incapacitate.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
 
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