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Companies in clear violation of Constitutionally-protected civil rights

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Jul 12, 2011
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northern wis
As with any system or tool used in self-defense including Tasers and spray have limitations.

As do firearms, edged, impact and any other thing that one could use as a weapon

It is not basing pointing out any systems limitations it is just fact.

Making untruthful and over stating their effectiveness is just asking to get people hurt when they expect performance from them that the can not be provided because of their nature.

Tasers and spray can be a good addition to a persons personnel defensive tools. As long as one recognizes what they are capable of and uses them accordingly.

If one does not chose to spend all the time necessary on their own to learn the proper and correct way of using any system.

They can hire some one trained and well versed in that system to shorten their learning curve. And could very well save themselves time, money and wasted effort doing so all on their own.

But have at it, lots of knowledge out there for free one just has to find it, absorb it put it into correct, proper practice, use and become effect with it.

One could go out and buy a welder read all about welding spend countless of hours by trial and error learning to weld or one could go to a local technical collage take their beginning welding course and save themselves a lot of time, money and frustration. By paying the collage and instructor to learn how to do it properly.

That same scenario could and can apply to any new skill level one wants to learn.
 

WalkingWolf

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Messages
11,912
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North Carolina
As with any system or tool used in self-defense including Tasers and spray have limitations.

As do firearms, edged, impact and any other thing that one could use as a weapon

It is not basing pointing out any systems limitations it is just fact.

Making untruthful and over stating their effectiveness is just asking to get people hurt when they expect performance from them that the can not be provided because of their nature.

Tasers and spray can be a good addition to a persons personnel defensive tools. As long as one recognizes what they are capable of and uses them accordingly.

If one does not chose to spend all the time necessary on their own to learn the proper and correct way of using any system.

They can hire some one trained and well versed in that system to shorten their learning curve. And could very well save themselves time, money and wasted effort doing so all on their own.

But have at it, lots of knowledge out there for free one just has to find it, absorb it put it into correct, proper practice, use and become effect with it.

One could go out and buy a welder read all about welding spend countless of hours by trial and error learning to weld or one could go to a local technical collage take their beginning welding course and save themselves a lot of time, money and frustration. By paying the collage and instructor to learn how to do it properly.

That same scenario could and can apply to any new skill level one wants to learn.

Nothing is perfect, but unarmed is nothing. YOU scoffed at carry of tasers, and pepper spray. I only pointed out that when deployed properly tasers have a better record than firearms, as well as pepper spray as I have proven. Abraham Lincoln learned his legal skills on his own. Many trainers are not worth a nickle let alone thousands of dollars. People have been defending themselves, successfully I might add, with firearms for 2 centuries without training. They have a better record than highly trained people like LE.

As far as edged weapons, that is the most ignorant form of self defense, unless the other person is weaker, and unarmed, just downright unacceptable to suggest it. Knife fights are messy, both parties usually get cut, and usually more fatal than gunshot wounds, though they usually do not stop an attacker.

Next time be fair, and honest instead of pish poshing options because it may alter your bottom line.
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
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Mar 3, 2013
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nj
Firearms Instructor;

Thank you for your informative post. Please be advised WW never lost an argument he is undefeated in arguments, if you don't believe me, just ask him.

Argument scoreboard--

WW- 20000000000000000000000

Rest of the world------ (0)..

My .02
CCJ
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
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Location
northern wis
Firearms Instructor;

Thank you for your informative post. Please be advised WW never lost an argument he is undefeated in arguments, if you don't believe me, just ask him.

Argument scoreboard--

WW- 20000000000000000000000

Rest of the world------ (0)..

My .02
CCJ

For some coming up with foolish statement's and nonsensical arguments only serve to deepen the belief that others have of them.

As far as edged weapons, that is the most ignorant form of self defense.


People have been successfully using edge weapons as a defensive tool and offensive tool long before firearms were even thought of.

As stated again because, some just will not realize or admit that each weapon has it limitations and that they have limitations and that one has to work with in those limitations.

They just start spouting things to support their failed arguments.

The US have built a whole failed system on giving things to people for free.

The people who demand things for free are easy to understand they fall into certain categories and think others should share with them just because they want it and don't have it.

I do not believe in or support such a system.
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
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Location
here nc
snipped...

The US have built a whole failed system on giving things to people for free.

The people who demand things for free are easy to understand they fall into certain categories and think others should share with them just because they want it and don't have it.

I do not believe in or support such a system.

well FI, might hollar at DJT who is about to sign an EO overturning the ban on freely giving excess (defined in the eyes of the receiver) military gear to the nice LE depts around the country!

should be an interesting couple of years, eh!
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
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Location
northern wis
well FI, might hollar at DJT who is about to sign an EO overturning the ban on freely giving excess (defined in the eyes of the receiver) military gear to the nice LE depts around the country!

should be an interesting couple of years, eh!

The program of giving surplus military equipment to LEO agencies for decades it is nothing new after WWII many department got many weapons and equipment on the surplus market.
 

solus

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Messages
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here nc
The program of giving surplus military equipment to LEO agencies for decades it is nothing new after WWII many department got many weapons and equipment on the surplus market.

government practice started in 1996 of giving 'grants' to buy ($768M in 2014) excess military equipment verse some local department buying the equipment on their own from a surplus shop.

a rose by another other name still constitutes a violation of posse comitatus provisions...

our LE's need armored anything, to 'protect & serve' their community's citizens?

FI, please provide why personnel carriers are needed to serve warrants or grenade launchers serve and protect?

June 2017 study: Militarization and police violence: The case of the 1033 program (http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2053168017712885)
Abstract: We find a positive and statistically significant relationship between 1033 transfers and fatalities from officer-involved shootings across all models.

The results... confirm our argument: the receipt of more military equipment increases both the expected number of civilians killed by police (β = 0.055; p = 0.016) and the change in civilian deaths (β = 0.017; p = 0.082).

As shown... receiving no military equipment corresponds with 0.287 expected civilian killings in a given county for a given year, whereas receiving the maximum amount corresponds with 0.656 killings.
In other words, moving from the minimum to the maximum expenditure values, on average, increases civilian deaths by roughly 129%.

...counties that received no military equipment can expect to kill 0.068 fewer civilians, relative to the previous year, whereas those that received the maximum amount can expect to kill 0.188 more, holding all else constant.

while it 'has always' been done doesn't answer the question ~ why do LE's need militarization equipment to 'protect and serve' their community's citizens.
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
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Location
North Carolina
Not when they brought a knife to a gun fight. But, when all you have is a knife...

A knife requires hand to hand combat, which for most people against a healthy attacker is a joke. I am very surprised a 'professional' trainer would suggest such nonsense. The whole purpose of a handgun is to gain that advantage of distance, which is not there with most other forms of weapons. From experiance dealing with nuts with knifes, YOU are probably going to get cut, in my case the cuts were on my hand, wrist, and thigh, but I was young, and strong. A little old lady with a folder? What an absolute joke to suggest such a thing. There is no way I would waste my money for such training. We call it tactikewl in the real world, that is not the world of make believe operators.

Unless of course he is talking about a sword, yea that is going to go over well in public.

FI might like this song.

[video=youtube;E_PItzGsmas]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_PItzGsmas[/video]
 
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WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
Here's an unknown secret that nobody told FI, most gun free zones also ban knives. The hospital here, knives are also banned. On most school campuses any knife is illegal, even pocket knives, in NC it is a felony. Conceal carry a tactical knife in NC, nope. Court decisions have ruled that only pocket knives can be concealed, ya know those pen knives with a blade less than 3.5 inches. Spring assisted? Forget about it, the law specifically forbids spring loaded knives. That leaves OC, but in some states like NY that is not legal. Though I would imagine dressing like a tacticool ninja is legal, or dressing like an operator. Ohh yea don't forget you need special expensive training to wear either one.

Pepper spray is allowed under law concealed or open legally in NC, and probably most states.
 

WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
Some might find this story and video enlightening.

This poor knife man didn't stand a chance against armed officers,
A very interesting engagement


http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2015/07/knifeman-downs-officer-armed-with-ak.html

A knife is an OFFENSIVE weapon, and as such very deadly. As a defensive weapon it is p poor, and even if used as such the defender has to be healthy, and the attacker know nothing about fighting. Good luck with that.

I do carry knives, not so much as weapons, they are my tools. I have used them to cut steak in a restaurant when the knife on the table sucked. I carry a fixed blade for one reason, to get a gun grabber off of me. It only would work if the gun grabber is fixated on my gun, and he is not street wise. Other than that anybody who gets into a knife fight is going to get cut, knife against knife it is a better option to neutralize the knife hand, USMC training. A person uses a knife when they want to kill somebody, and have the element of surprise. There are exceptions to everything, just like pepper spray, and tasers. But the odds of winning with those are much higher than winning with a knife, the odds of winning over firearms with a knife are so low I doubt any book maker would take odds.

Common sense is the most important training, but it can't be trained. So many trainers sell as much tactical useless stuff as they can market, especially since there has been an overabundance of trainers falling all over each other.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Messages
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northern wis
Not when they brought a knife to a gun fight. But, when all you have is a knife...


That is why swords, bayonets, knifes and other edge weapons must of been done away with by all militaries shortly after firearms were invented.

Or why were laws passed to outlawing certain edge weapons must be because they are totally worthless as defensive or offensive weapons.

It seems that some have a hard time comprehending some things but they keep on trying making life interesting.
 

WalkingWolf

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Messages
11,912
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North Carolina
That is why swords, bayonets, knifes and other edge weapons must of been done away with by all militaries shortly after firearms were invented.

Or why were laws passed to outlawing certain edge weapons must be because they are totally worthless as defensive or offensive weapons.

It seems that some have a hard time comprehending some things but they keep on trying making life interesting.

YOU carry swords, and bayonets, is that seriously your training? Just what do you think will happen on a school campus carrying them? This just gets better, and better.
 
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Firearms Iinstuctor

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YOU carry swords, and bayonets, is that seriously your training? Just what do you think will happen on a school campus carrying them? This just gets better, and better.


If that is the training your willing to pay for I can make it happen for you.

Or you can pay one of the others offering such training.

https://www.gunsite.com/classes/edged-weapons-training/

https://www.frontsight.com/courses/knife-training.asp

This is just a couple of the places and most likely the most well known places that have edged weapons component to in their training schedule.

But again one has to be willing to spend money and not go around begging for free stuff to attend any of this type of training.

I can assure you my rates are very competitive but again sorry they are not free.

From the number of places offering classes in edge weapons I sure you can find one close to you.

Well here is one in Durham

http://triangleself-defense.com/knife-training-durham/

Feel free to go and ask them for free training.
 
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WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
If that is the training your willing to pay for I can make it happen for you.

Or you can pay one of the others offering such training.

https://www.gunsite.com/classes/edged-weapons-training/

https://www.frontsight.com/courses/knife-training.asp

This is just a couple of the places and most likely the most well known places that have edged weapons component to in their training schedule.

But again one has to be willing to spend money and not go around begging for free stuff to attend any of this type of training.

I can assure you my rates are very competitive but again sorry they are not free.

From the number of places offering classes in edge weapons I sure you can find one close to you.

Well here is one in Durham

http://triangleself-defense.com/knife-training-durham/

Feel free to go and ask them for free training.

I don't believe in throwing money in the toilet...
 

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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Valhalla
--snipped--
I can assure you my rates are very competitive but again sorry they are not free.

From the number of places offering classes in edge weapons .......
One will look long and hard to find better edged weapon training than a good Kali/Eskrimac facility.

I count myself fortunate to have received such traning.

Available in my area:
http://tinyurl.com/ycgb5ptd
 

WalkingWolf

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One will look long and hard to find better edged weapon training than a good Kali/Eskrimac facility.

I count myself fortunate to have received such traning.

Available in my area:
http://tinyurl.com/ycgb5ptd

How many days a week do you train?

Guess what happened when a MMA fighter, a very good one mind you, when he went up against an aging boxer? In most cases the attacker will be younger, and stronger, an old man like myself with knife would be no match for them. I doubt anyone else like be would have any chance either no matter how fancy the training, and yes I consider most of it not worth a darn unless it is practiced every single day, and the operator is healthy enough to use it.
 
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Grapeshot

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How many days a week do you train?

Guess what happened when a MMA fighter, a very good one mind you, when he went up against an aging boxer? In most cases the attacker will be younger, and stronger, an old man like myself with knife would be no match for them. I doubt anyone else like be would have any chance either no matter how fancy the training, and yes I consider most of it not worth a darn unless it is practiced every single day, and the operator is healthy enough to use it.
Beats the heck out of an empty hand IMO.

Insofar as age vs youth - read my signature line.:p
 
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WalkingWolf

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Beats the heck out of an empty hand IMO.

Insofar as age vs youth - read my signature line.:p

That depends, a knife shoved up the backside would be real serious. The thing is there are better, or added options, I carry a knife, and I have been trained with it in the military. But I was also a police officer, and saw in real life, how real life attacks take place.

This gives an idea of just who we would be going up against using hand to hand.

age-crime-curve.jpg
https://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/Pages/delinquency-to-adult-offending.aspx

No offense, but there is fantasy, and then the real world.

BTW I train every day, with both guns, and my cane. I have used in my life a riot baton(think cane) a revolver, stun gun, and pepper spray all successful. OTH I have disarmed several criminals with knives, it is not that hard if you are young. A knife is a very dangerous offensive weapon when used with the element of surprise, other than that it using a knife in a knife fight means getting cut. Almost every felony, or violent attack the suspect was carrying a knife. So you are not just looking at using a knife against an younger, unarmed perp, you are looking at getting stabbed. It is just the way it is. It is why police are trained with guns, clubs, tasers, and pepper spray but most knife training is defense against a knife. Best defense against a knife attack is impact then disabling the arm, that is what is trained. Some of the GFZ are also KFZ, what then? Break the law?
 
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