Oh, I don't think Skidmark was trying to Badger you ....Sawah. He's just correcting you!
Does that mean there was a name change I missed?
Would certain seem to be a valid conclusion.
Oh, I don't think Skidmark was trying to Badger you ....Sawah. He's just correcting you!
Does that mean there was a name change I missed?
Does that mean there was a name change I missed?
This is my point as most people don't start driving away when they are talking to someone and that someone reaches into their vehicle UNLESS they are scared for their life. I'm sure it wasn't lets take this nice cop for a ride.....
Frightened, confused, belligerent, even scared possibly; but scared for her life over having had her DL requested - not likely. Don't see the way of her driving off as being germane to the case in any event.
I have never heard of anyone casusally driving away while not taking time to remove their sun shade, while rolling up their window as they are being shot. I'm sure that is all that was said was the officers polite asking for her DL. This leaves the question of why was his arm in her window if all he did was ask for her DL? There is more here than the cop is saying, something was said or done to make her drive away and roll up her window without removing her sun shade. Her actions are more in the line with panic than a reasoned thought.
You may be right.
Still I cannot conclude that she casually drove away, rolling up the window with one hand, holding driving license w/another, steering the vehicle with yet another. She only needed 1 more hand to remove the sun screen. See, I can make unwarranted/unsupported assumptions too.
Not so wild assumptions as someone doesn't calmly drive away without removing the blocked view. People in a panic will try to get away from the threat be it real or not. In a vehicle this would be done by rolling up the window, locking the door and driving away the three things that a person can do to put a barrier between the threat and the person. What makes me think she was paniced is that she didn't take the time to remove the shade to see where she was going.
Bob, you haven't gathered yet that there is usually a lot written between the lines.
Occasionally I have to check my drivers license to reassure myself I wasn't born yesterday.
There is no evidence, testimony or factual report that the lady was in fear of her life. Fact of the matter is we don't know why she ran/drove away.
Doc Walker said:...--snip-- Unlike the Culpepper incedent were the cop is the only one still alive that knows what was said to make the lady fear for her life that she had to run.
We'll have to wait for any lawsuits from those affected. If none manifest themselves then the cops will have completed the reeducation of the citizenry and will now be able to act with impunity.Well, what else did you expect them to do? They obviously dont feel like doing real police work. So instead they become criminals themselves.
You emphasized the wrong part of Doc Walker's point. Try this:
Originally Posted by Doc Walker
...--snip-- Unlike the Culpepper incedent were the cop is the only one still alive that knows what was said to make the lady fear for her life that she had to run.
This does not say he wasn't justified. It merely states the fact that the only other witness is dead.
Nope - I emphasized the point I intended.
There are other witnesses.
Frightened, confused, belligerent, even scared possibly; but scared for her life over having had her DL requested - not likely. Don't see the way of her driving off as being germane to the case in any event.
--snip--
If the officer was threatening or criminally aggressive (not uncommon; some officers some places interpret their training as encouraging that), her driving away becomes a defensive action, one she was forced to (in her mind) by the actions of the officer. Not only do her supposed felonies fly out the window due to necessity, but the defense of another claim by the officer does as well, as he was the individual responsible for creating the dangerous situation with his own criminal acts. You can't force a person to do something dangerous and then shoot them in self-defense. Is there a word for execution by entrapment?
--snip--
What reasonable, responsible person purports to leave or attempts to drive away from a seizure/detention?
What reasonable, responsible person purports to leave or attempts to drive away from a seizure/detention? Seems to me that virtually 100% of the time we say to not engage in street court and after objection, stating that you are cooperating under duress or remain silent, follow through from the safety/comfort of your home or office. There was no "necessity" to her actions; she wasn't "forced" to make those decisions or respond the way she did - she chose to do so. Seriously bad judgement IMO and a situation that went from unpleasant to very bad because of it.
No one needs to tell me she was afraid - I get it, she probably was. Also don't need to be reminded that they officer reached into her vehicle - I get that too.
I don't particularly like the feeling I have developed regarding the officer nor I am particularly proud of her reactions, but I shall base my conclusions on the law as I understand it. There will be much to learn at the trial I think.
Is there a word for guilty by innuendo and assumption?
What reasonable person WOULDN'T attempt to drive away if they feared for their life. We don't know that's the case, but we certainly don't know that it's not either.
I've come to expect better than that from you Grape, you've left me disappointed....
Roscoe