Don't let your children draw pictures of guns...

[END_THE_FED]

........Twenty years ago it was unheard of for someone to barge into a school and open fire on students and educators.........

Really?
Ever hear of Charles Whitman?

Here are a few more to check out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olean_High_School_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_School_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkway_South_Middle_School_shooting#1983_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westside_Middle_School_shooting

 

[anmut]

If the student had given the drawing to the teacher or to another person then I might agree, but the student drew it for his own use and was about to throw it away.



If the words were written in a diary/journal would you feel the same way?

Exactly.

 

[eye95]

If the student had given the drawing to the teacher or to another person then I might agree, but the student drew it for his own use and was about to throw it away.

If the words were written in a diary/journal would you feel the same way?

Diary or drawing, once the words came to light, action had to be taken. Arrest was over-the-top. However, he should have been removed from the situation until a professional (such as a psychiatrist) put his professional opinion on paper that the child posed no threat.

As a teacher, I would not have wanted that child in my classroom unless a professional was as willing to put his rep on the line. After all, I'd be putting my *** on the line!

As distasteful as this is for some to read, I still must say that a drawing, intended to be private or not, with the words "teacher must die" on it, is a legitimate concern for teacher!

 

[dbhsig]

As distasteful as this is for some to read, I still must say that a drawing, intended to be private or not, with the words "teacher must die" on it, is a legitimate concern for teacher!

Nope, can't disagree on that. I think the part that rankles most of us is the way it was handled by the cops.

 

[END_THE_FED]

Diary or drawing, once the words came to light, action had to be taken. Arrest was over-the-top. However, he should have been removed from the situation until a professional (such as a psychiatrist) put his professional opinion on paper that the child posed no threat.

As a teacher, I would not have wanted that child in my classroom unless a professional was as willing to put his rep on the line. After all, I'd be putting my *** on the line!

As distasteful as this is for some to read, I still must say that a drawing, intended to be private or not, with the words "teacher must die" on it, is a legitimate concern for teacher!

I agree that the teacher had legitimate cause for concern, she would have every right to demand that the child be removed from her class. The school would have every right to not allow the child to come back to that school until he was "checked out".

I just don't see any justification for any criminal charges or arrest.


Just for the sake of accuracy the drawing read "teachers they must die".

 

[sudden valley gunner]

I agree that the teacher had legitimate cause for concern, she would have every right to demand that the child be removed from her class. The school would have every right to not allow the child to come back to that school until he was "checked out".

I just don't see any justification for any criminal charges or arrest.


Just for the sake of accuracy the drawing read "teachers they must die".

To me just seems like a kid fantasy cartoon story.

Check him out yes, use the Police, hell no! Way to traumatize an already troubled child.

 

[Bebop]

Why should the teacher feel threatened? Doesn't he know that all schools are posted that no firearms are allowed and that is enforced by the magical powers of rainbows and unicorns.

All kidding aside. Having the police called to arrest the kid was an over reaction. The kid wrote all teachers must die but he didn't say HE would kill all teachers. Maybe he was just stating the obvious about nature. All people must die at some point no one will live forever and teachers are people too. The teacher reacted right in the fact of sending the kid to the office. The office should then judge if they should a) chew the kid out a bit and send him back to class or b) suspend him pending him going to a therapist and having the therapist checking him out. If the therapist thinks he is fine the kid comes back to school and maybe the teachers keep an eye on him for a while. In my opinion that should be that. No police need be involved.

 

[eye95]

...The kid wrote all teachers must die but he didn't say HE would kill all teachers...

Context. The comment was on a drawing of him shooting others. The implication is clear: that they were to die at his hands. The only question was whether he was considering acting on the thought he expressed, not whether that thought was of him killing teachers.

 

[Bebop]

Context. The comment was on a drawing of him shooting others. The implication is clear: that they were to die at his hands. The only question was whether he was considering acting on the thought he expressed, not whether that thought was of him killing teachers.

The drawing showed him shooting stick figures with text at the top saying all teachers must die. You are now implying, without proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that the other stick figures represented teachers. Maybe they did maybe they didn't but in my opinion drawing the picture and writing the words are not a crime. If you start arresting people just because you or someone else feel that they may cause harm to someone just because of something they happen to be doing, saying, or writing that to me seems to be a violation of the 1st amendment. It would also seem to me that then people could say that because we talk about openly carrying firearms that we could possibly pose a threat to someone, therefore we should be arrested on site. Yes I am applying and you probably wouldn't want it to go that far, as in not being allowed to carry. Where then, in your mind, would you draw the line about what someone can and can't say, draw, or write that would require the police to be called on them?

 

[eye95]

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Moving on.

 

[Bebop]

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Moving on.

Trying to have a conversation and I am not sure how ignoring the question is productive. To me the repercussions of how you would handle this are a possible infringement on 1st amendment rights with the possibility of that translating into other infringements on rights. Are you willing to accept that? I, for one, am not.

 

[frommycolddeadhands]

I think the teacher had a right to be concerned.

I think calling the cops was stupid as no crime was comitted.

A more reasonable reaction might have been to call the kids parents in for a conference and discuss the concerns.

 

[Ruby]

My God, how ridiculous!! I know times have changed, but arresting an 11 year old for drawing a picture is beyond the pale. A long time ago, when I was a kid, we actually played with toy guns that you could load with "caps" and when you pulled the trigger, they popped. Anyone else remember these? And we used to point them at each other and shoot each other. (Gasp!!) The one "shot" would fall down dead and lay there for a minute or two, then get up and we would act out another scenario. You know what? None of us has ever shot or theatened to shoot anyone yet. We all understood it was just play; our parents and other adults didn't pay any attention to us. They knew we were just kids, playing. There were even holsters for the toy guns, sheriff's badges, etc. We had a lot of fun and none of us ever took it seriously, we knew it was play. There is the crux of the matter: thanks to the media and tv, kids today are confused as to what is real and what is not, what is play and make believe. That and all the anti gun propoganda. Hell, I had MY OWN .22 rifle when I was 10; went hunting with my grandfather. Never pointed it at anything that wasn't potential food. Parents and other adults spent more time actually raising their kids and keeping tabs on what they were doing than parents today seem to do. Raising your children was actually deemed a worthwhile endeavor. Now before you flame me, please understand I am NOT saying that all or even many parents neglect or ignore their children. I'm not saying that at all. But we live in much busier times and sometimes it seems that raising kids is just another activity, like you job, or a leisure time activity. I don't know exactly how to put it. It no longer seems like the central theme of family life, just something to be squeezed into the day. If you doubt me, take a look at our overflowing jails and prisons. Funny how those of us that grew up in very involved families never ended up in one of those. I am NOT slamming anyone on here or anywhere else. It has been proven that there is a direct correlation between lack of good parenting and crime. I was more afraid of my parents than the police! We live in a faster world and also a world where we have the opportunity to do so many things, get involved in so many activities, both as children and adults. How can you possibly have any quality family time when everyone goes their separate ways all the time? We ate breakfast and dinner together, as a family. Lunch we were at school and parents were working. I know I have gotten OT here, but I feel this is related to the topic. If this kid had drawn a picture like this back when I was a kid, it wouldn't have gotten a second glance.

 

[Grapeshot]

Please break up postings into paragraphs - makes it mush easier to read.

 

[eye95]

Please break up postings into paragraphs - makes it mush easier to read.

Walls of text on a message board serve a valid purpose. We need walls to bang our heads against.

 

[END_THE_FED]

Please break up postings into paragraphs - makes it mush easier to read.

This actually brings up a question that has been in the back of my mind for a while.
Why does the forum not allow you to indent?

Whenever you try to indent a paragraph it just re-formats the text automatically. Skipping a line to separate your paragraphs is a simple solution to the problem, but it seems weird that you cant indent. There is probably a way to do it with "code" but that's annoying.

It use to drive me nuts not being able to indent the first line of my posts.

 

[Grapeshot]

...This actually brings up a question that has been in the back of my mind for a while.
Why does the forum not allow you to indent?

...Whenever you try to indent a paragraph it just re-formats the text automatically. Skipping a line to separate your paragraphs is a simple solution to the problem, but it seems weird that you cant indent. There is probably a way to do it with "code" but that's annoying.

...It use to drive me nuts not being able to indent the first line of my posts.

...There did it for you......... Can move smilies and such the same way if important to you in the context of what you say.
..:uhoh:
...Actually I think indenting automatically makes it more difficult to read, particularly when you add other formatting functions of the site into the mix - ads on the top right of pages, pictures, cites - all have an effect.

Block style (left hand alignment) is standard business form these days. Just breaking up large paragraphs with paragraph breaks (skip a line) works best and is an easy way to improve the readability of a posting.

 

[Ruby]

I give up. I post to try and make a point, valid I think, about how times have changed and I get a grammer and punctuation lesson! I have better things to do, I'm outta here!!

 

[Grapeshot]

I give up. I post to try and make a point, valid I think, about how times have changed and I get a grammer and punctuation lesson! I have better things to do, I'm outta here!!

There was no intent or design to offend anyone. There was a request with a "please" attached to it.

Sharing thoughts and methods is the "better" part of what we do here - applying a measure of patience to that never hurts.

 

[eye95]

My God, how ridiculous!! I know times have changed, but arresting an 11 year old for drawing a picture is beyond the pale.

A long time ago, when I was a kid, we actually played with toy guns that you could load with "caps" and when you pulled the trigger, they popped. Anyone else remember these? And we used to point them at each other and shoot each other. (Gasp!!) The one "shot" would fall down dead and lay there for a minute or two, then get up and we would act out another scenario.

You know what? None of us has ever shot or theatened to shoot anyone yet. We all understood it was just play; our parents and other adults didn't pay any attention to us. They knew we were just kids, playing. There were even holsters for the toy guns, sheriff's badges, etc. We had a lot of fun and none of us ever took it seriously, we knew it was play.

There is the crux of the matter: thanks to the media and tv, kids today are confused as to what is real and what is not, what is play and make believe. That and all the anti gun propoganda.

Hell, I had MY OWN .22 rifle when I was 10; went hunting with my grandfather. Never pointed it at anything that wasn't potential food.

Parents and other adults spent more time actually raising their kids and keeping tabs on what they were doing than parents today seem to do. Raising your children was actually deemed a worthwhile endeavor.

Now before you flame me, please understand I am NOT saying that all or even many parents neglect or ignore their children. I'm not saying that at all. But we live in much busier times and sometimes it seems that raising kids is just another activity, like you job, or a leisure time activity. I don't know exactly how to put it. It no longer seems like the central theme of family life, just something to be squeezed into the day.

If you doubt me, take a look at our overflowing jails and prisons. Funny how those of us that grew up in very involved families never ended up in one of those. I am NOT slamming anyone on here or anywhere else. It has been proven that there is a direct correlation between lack of good parenting and crime. I was more afraid of my parents than the police!

We live in a faster world and also a world where we have the opportunity to do so many things, get involved in so many activities, both as children and adults. How can you possibly have any quality family time when everyone goes their separate ways all the time? We ate breakfast and dinner together, as a family. Lunch we were at school and parents were working.

I know I have gotten OT here, but I feel this is related to the topic. If this kid had drawn a picture like this back when I was a kid, it wouldn't have gotten a second glance.

That's what the post would look like with paragraphing. It appears longer, but less daunting. This is just a suggestion, not criticism. If the suggestion is taken, the probability that folks will take the time to read the post increases. And, if one takes the time to write something, he or she surely would like folks to read it and consider the ideas therein.